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If we conform, Ideologies clash causing a slight tension in the social setup. If we reform, we change for the supposed best and loosen the tension of conformism. If we deform, it is sheer chaos, it will be the unwinding of a social structure for a seemingly permanent loss.

But these are all subsystems in the system of our society. Then which would any say is the most desirable? One would think that reform is the better of the three. But, that is not the case. These days we want to force everyone different to conform. I suggest that this is building tension in our social system and will soon cause a deformity in the system if it is not solved by means of reform.

I suggest that there is an upcoming social revolution. It is right in front of our faces. If everyone continues to ignore it than we are doomed for a big problem.

What say you member's of Stoica?

what are we talking about here? what system are we contemplating conforming, reforming, or deforming?
I_27_04 mentioned economics but im not so sure that's what you mean...or maybe not the entirety of your meaning.

i, like mega, am not sure what the subject of reform is but i still have a response.
the reason reforms often dont work is because they are only partial reforms. that is to say that the actual reform is performed on a small or selective scale and everyone else is expected to conform to the reform.
kinda like what i_27_04 said i think some form of keep the good and get rid of the bad, but it is really hard to define and perform such an exorcism in many cases. the idea is to make everything healthy things we consider bad are often symptoms of some silent unseen factor. like with a bodily illness we may have vomiting and fever, to the naked eye this might seem perplexing, perhaps there is something wrong with the stomach or skin, but really there is a microscopic intruder in the body. so health and balance are to be sought. then build on these healthy levels, bring health to the whole system level by level. There is illness of many kinds wreaking havoc throughout our world. reform is like a sick man changing clothes, though it may need to be done, it will not solve the problems.

like i said before i dont know what im talking about but i responded.

very true. very true, indeed.

Are you like abraxas? Do you not want people to be drone worker zombies? Do you have a giant brain? Then follow one of these plans.

1. Watch fight club and copy.
2. Be a politicion.
3. Be reincarnated as the leader of a big country.
4. Become the leader of a big country.
5. If none of the above works, become a revoloutionary thinker that everybody likes.

I am not saying please the masses is always a good strategy, or one with a noble cause, depending on the way it's used. I am saying that it works.
Have you ever heard yourself saying God bless america to yourself? Did you go to the vatican(can't spell it) to see the pope? When was the last time you decided your cofy was bad enough for you, and shouldn't have sugar or creamer? Have you ever questioned global warming? Do you watch the weather on the television, before you plan any part of your day?
Perhaps yes, and perhaps no. Either way you get my point.

What really matters is who is leading, or perhaps, who all, are leading. It also matters what we are doing to help.

Narrowing our ecenomical problembs(not to be confuzed with the economy it's self, but the problembs it has. I also don't know if economy is the right word, but it works) down to three combinable soloutions. Being vague is good for prooving a point.

Please the Masses and they will conform.

It is very vague. If I had said," Give the masses free health insurance and they will conform," I would have recieved alot of negetive feedback, because a large group of people disagree with that. If I single it out to one specific soloution then there are problembs. That is why, when proving a point, it is good to be vague at times. For example,"Some people look at america and say why. I look at america and say why not." I forget which president said that, or if that is exactly what he said, but it is vague enough to be motivational, leading up to his real soloution.

Now, although being vague, at times, can prove a point more easily, it is still not much to act on. Start simple, expand it, and then narrow it down to several possibilities, then decide on one, or the combination of the best, or etc.


For example. I am the presiden't of the united states. I give this short speech, as I am not at a very big event.(though the speech might not seem authentic, I could counter by saying I have very little charisma I use capatal letters to explain enphasas)
"When I was a little boy. I lived in an America, that was filled with pride. With Honor. And, with a PROPER WAY OF LIFE. Today, I see that flag being torn down. The chILdrEn are dressed like devils, and sit in school, learning nothing. I see masses, that are in, FEAR, of war. I SEE... Sickness, and self indulgence, AND HATRED. Pain and SUffering. All of this is going to change."

I guess that would be more of the warm up to the speach. But as you can see, It dosen't start out immediatly with a soloution, but builds up to it.
If you word your point wisely, then more people will listen. But More important than that is the endgame. If I was president, and I gave that speech, the masses would be waiting for a soloution, waiting for a middle and end to the speach. If I didn't say how, to teach the children, and how to calm hte fear, and how, to treat the sickness, and influence hte indulgence, and hatred, then everybody... Would frankly get pissed off. I would be all over the news as one of the worst presidents, like bush. I feel sorry for him. He is a geneus, but he just can't get his wording right, but the people only see the people who sound good, not who decide, and act well.

In this field of philosophy we are doing something simalar. Although we have good intentions twards eachother, we are realy just trying to prove our point, and learn from others. If I didn't prove my point correctly, then people wouldn't lean from me, and even the opinion from a 13 year old child, can make a difference. If you guys didn't prove your points correctly, then we wouldn't learn anything from you. That is why it is good to discuss this online, because we don't have to think of our words on the spot, but have time to think about what we are typing.

Now, to the endgame. the thing I have been building up to.

If we keep sending eachother short vague remarks, we will seem vastly wise and insightfull, however no point wil really be made. Specific words are nececary, so I guess I'll start.

First We should all discuss which things we like, and don't like about our government, economy, society, and media(though not all fields nececarily need to be met), and then list ideas about how we could improve the good parts, revise or destroy the bad parts, and rebuild the broken parts.
This part can be discussed in two fields.
1. Unatainable
A. We are not of high power, and can't drasticly change the world without
vast effort and teamwork, but we can still discuss things that people
who make the decisions could do.
2. Attainable.
A. We can all do our part, even if it is a little bit, or alot.

Then again all of that is just my opinion. I might be wrong, and any constructive critisizm is welcome.

I agree with every point you have just made. Infact, if that outcome didn't occour, then my idea really would be flawed.

Would you refuze to buy a computer, because it needs new software every so often, or a new part attached, or an old one moved, or replaced?
Would you get rid of your pet, because you have to keep training it, removing it's present's, and buying and feeding it new food? Would you leave your home, and live on the street, because you have to keep repainting, replacing the light bulbs, and switching on/off the porch light, depending on the time of day? I am not trying to critizise you, but merely show you the big picture, so you have no reason to defend yourself, incase you get pissed off by this paragraph. I would also like to thank you for your compliment

Trust anything made by man to fail. One day everything will stop working as intended. One soloution can't work forever. That is why we have politicions, and teachers, and loyars, and doctars, and even a government. Remember in school, when you where in a student counsel? If not, just imagine you do. Your sitting there, listing to the priciple nagging on and on and on and on and on... And on... About the students not coming to the school events. After about an hour or so (you couldn't find your watch amongst the dirty socks, and comic books this morning) of blaming, namecalling, and brainstorming... You, who have been silent for the whole duration of the session, speak out," For CRYING OUT LOUD! WE DO THE SAME THING EVERY YEAR! IT'S BORING TO GO, GET OVER IT!" Unknowingly, you have just solved the problemb. Or atleast sparked the idea for the soloution. The same joke told three times is annoying. If you give the children the mashed potatoes to much they will get sick of it. So you move onto green beens. They get sick of that too. Then chicken. They get a stomach ach, and are litterally sick. So you give them a combination of the three, along with other foods occasionally, and they are running to wash their hands when they hear the words," Dinner's ready."

An extention/idea addition, to my previous post.

Get together, and find a soloution. A combination of conformation, reformation, and deformation, with perhaps the addition of a few outside factors, to make a soloution the majority of people will be benifited by, and enjoy. Now. Eveuntally, it will stop working. That is why you have to keep going at it. It is a team effort, like on JI JOE or captain planet (I can drag these into my posts as many times as I have/want to)

If I could, I would put right here... A summerization of this post in a haiku. Sadly, I am unable to do haiku's, because simple have never been able to do one properly, that made sence. So instead, I would give you this poem, which has nothing to do with anything I have just said at all. Sadly, I can not remember the bet poem I have ever written, and will now write you a new one, from the top of my head, without using a dictionary, or any rhyming aids.

It all sounds the same,
the world is to blame,
but I can still hear that voice calling my name.

The voice is a light,
And it shines so Bright,
A Sun of truth, and wisdom, might.

As small as a dot,
And they see it not,
I tell them in vain, so the meaning is rot.

It's infront of me,
But now I see,
Chasing is pointless, because it's free.

It's free from the rules,
It plays us for fools,
Now it's pissed off because we're in a dule.

I can not win,
Because it's a sin,
Now i give up and this poem is fin.
Peace heart & harmony

See my signature, Why? why not? under my posts?

As some of you medium aged members might remember, necra made a thread called Why? In it it said why? everybody got into a big argument. I myself asked for more clarity. One peron said, because I said so. And so on. untill this one guy said, why not? The more vague a problemb is, the harder it is to find the right awnser, or soloution. In politics, there is not exact right awnser, but just one the majority will aggree on(most of the time). Now, think about what we are doing. We are flinging around vague comment's, and lengthy speeches to no end. Perhaps we should find a political topic to discuss. Something big, and long lasting works best. For example, global warming. It's big, and has many parts. Pluss there is no time limit on it, like, say, the presidental election. Also there is some philosophy involved in something big like eveloution, or poverty. With something like the iraq war, that is only politics, and would have to be in the non philosophy forum.

Btw I am going to start a thread for poems in off topic, if there isn't one already. I'll put most of my poems there for now on.