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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:14 am
Yes yes yes, i know what it is im doing here: most likely turning a good portion of the guild against me, or bathe me in a bad light, but this is something i often argue about and can raise good points. So ok, here it is! I feel that religion (Christianity mainly since i technecally am one) is wong on most, if not all of it's views. I happen to be an athiest, going to a catholic school. As you can imagine this can bring about some fun situations XP I argue a lot in R.E class (religious education.) So what are your views on the matter? If you say why you think nd why you think it then id be happy to dispute it and give my own opinions on the matter. But its a bit unfair to not really start the topic, so ill just state this to begin: I think that christianity is incorrect and often gives out the wrong signals and contradicts itself continually. Am i wrong?
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:19 am
YAY!! This will be a great debate! You're totally wrong!! blaugh
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:22 am
Haha, actually... I'm a born-again Christian myself, but I've been to many churches, so this should be enlightening for us both.
I actually graduated from a Lutheran High School in Cleveland, and our resident pastor drove me NUTS! He would waste and hour and half in religion class to try and tell us that Martin Luther's written works would one day be added to the back of the Bible....
It was such a waster of TIME!! gonk scream scream
ANYways, what's the biggest problem you find in Christianity?
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:25 am
Well I can be call a athiest also, i have dropped religion like a rock over a side of a bridge.
I know i shall be scorned by many but BRING IT ON!!!!
Ok i see that there are so many people out there that take the bible word for word but how can you believe the bible when it was written by man and man is false.
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:43 am
Christianity constantly contradicts itself and can come up with terrible things and veiws. Kakashi mentioned the bible being false, that in itself is probably true. If not totally then it is still full of holes and mistakes.
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:54 am
The only good religion is the one you keep to yourself. and ack! What is this?! A debate about religion again! When will people learn that religion is bad!
1. Christians got killed in Rome when they still believed in Olympus, when they realised that Christianism got all too popular, they had to give in to it and make it their official religion.
2. Christians vs. Asgard
3. Crusades
4. Martin Luther
5. Hitler hunts jews
6. Islamic Suicide bombers
now what does all these points have in common.... DEATH another thing I'd like to point out, if all believers were wiped out and there were no trace of religion, nobody would miss it because religion is not something that you're born with, it's something you're taught, sometimes at a young age where you're vulnerable and what your parents say is law and you don't have the mental capacity to question them.
I was born in a christian country, though my mother's religion is buddhism. Now if I followed the christian beliefs... should I wander around thinking that my mother should go to hell when she dies? The most kind and positive person I know goes to hell? I knew early that religion is fishy but not until later could I question it on my own.
I've thrown away religion, as I more and more realised that religion is no good.
Like I stated earlier... "The only good religion is the one you keep to yourself." and with that I'd like to say... I believe in head fairies, they live in my head and eat my memories so I forget important peoples' birthdays. "You forgot her birthday?!" _ "Oops... must have been the head fairies" _ "Cut the crap, don't blame it on something that isn't true!" _ "DON'T QUESTION MY RELIGION!" 3nodding Keep your religions to yourselves and believe in what the heck you want, and Jehovas can go get killed for being so respectless, trying to spread religion.
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:14 pm
HEY EVERYONE! BIG CLAP FOR MATTEA! ^^ *claps* blaugh
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:11 pm
For the first of Mattea's points, that religion has too many connections to death, I agree that, sadly, that is often the case. However, most of the religions that you are referencing agree that man is not perfect. Anyone can commit a crime and blame it on anything. People often use the Bible as an excuse to commit murder, when really they were acting of their own will and of their own thoughts. After all, if I was to kill someone and then say it was because of my interpretation of something Mr. Luther King said that does not mean that my interpretation was the same as his original intent.
For you other argument, what if your religion involved spreading it to other people? Do you not have the right to follow your own religion if that is the case?
As for Kakashi's argument that the Bible is written by man and man is false, I have been told before that the Bible was not written by men, but through men. That is to say, men wrote the words God gave them to write. Men are not always false, and the Bible is an instance of truth.
I would love to hear a specific example of the Bible contradicting itself, and then I will do my best to address the subject.
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Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:31 pm
ok here is something i will throw out there
there are all these different religions but yet their holy books pretty much all say the SAME THING as the next one.
Also all these religions have a different "God" figure thus how can you be sure that your religion is the correct religion to follow and gain access heaven or hell.... many people go around denouncing religions just to boost on religions populatrity
( Sorry about being brutal at the get go but i have had the same dabate in my Medieval studies class and thrashed my teacher so im going to see how you all fair........but i still love you all the same....well maybe...jp)
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:04 am
Sometimes, life is so simple xd
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:42 pm
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:47 pm
Kakashi_of_Talos ok here is something i will throw out there there are all these different religions but yet their holy books pretty much all say the SAME THING as the next one. Also all these religions have a different "God" figure thus how can you be sure that your religion is the correct religion to follow and gain access heaven or hell.... many people go around denouncing religions just to boost on religions populatrity ( Sorry about being brutal at the get go but i have had the same dabate in my Medieval studies class and thrashed my teacher so im going to see how you all fair........but i still love you all the same....well maybe...jp) All right you goobers. Weesa playin hardball. **flexes** The Bible differs from other religious books on genealogies alone. There are many other ways that it stands out, but one of the most supportive is this. Hundreds of years of people's family histories are recorded in the earlier books of the Bible. Al those boring-sounding verses that say such and such begot whomever who gave birth to this guy? They weren't included for nothing. These people's lives are traced back to locations, sometimes jobs that people performed, etc. While these can't all be confirmed, many of them are referenced with current rulers from that time period, or what was happening nearby. For instance, there are records outside the Bible (from other ancient civilizations) that reference Solomon and his great wealth, or that might talk about The splitting of Israel (into Israel and Judah). Many other religious texts do not talk about anything that would reference the world around them. Also, the Bible being written by man? It was written buy many authors over a period of several decades to over a hundred years. Not one person alone. There are also many different writing styles for all of these authors, which is why a person reading it for the first time might be confused. For so many individual accounts to be written and all coincide naturally is difficult to believe. Also, if it were written by many in collaboration, it would be in order, or make more sense. Many studies have pointed to several of these authors writing alone. For example, Paul was in jail as he wrote may of the letters of the New Testament (the second half of the Bible). Yet for all of these authors, many verses fulfill older ones, that were written several books back. A good example of this is when Jericho fell, and Joshua cursed it. He said "the man who lays the foudation to restore this city will do so at the cost of his oldest son, and the man that completes building it will bury his youngest son. About 400 years later? King Ahab loses his eldest and yo9ungest son, after doing both of these things. To make things more complex, the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John are all different accounts of the same thing- the life of Jesus. The styles and perspecives of these books are completely different. Who would bother to forge three other tellings of the same tale? And write them differently, saying many of the same things? It'd be useless! What other religious book can say it has so much?
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:35 am
I actually think most religions started out innocently, but as they grew powerful, they started to abuse their powers to controll others, after all, they're all just human and nothing other than humans. 3nodding
It's hard to build up a religion, but not impossible. Considering that it was hard to keep writings alive back then, the bible can't be correct, also it has most likely been through alot of changes in history. I've never really read the Bible, but all the common talk about Jesus, turning walking on water, healing blind and turning water into wine, not likely to happen. A reason why they write such things? To make him differ from ordinary people, exaggerations about him so that people go "Whoa" when reading the book, and we all know that people back then could be stunned by many things. Jesus, if he existed or not, he was most likely exaggerated, it's easy to make someone else appear powerful in writing, but it's hard to make yourself do as you'd appear selfish and unreliable for writing about yourself.
So, why not create this character named Jesus, he can be the son of God and be able to do all kinds of neat stuff...
The part about killing Jesus is simply to make the reader feel sympathy, that he died for a good cause, that kind of finish could make anyone appear like a saint. At the same time throwing dirt at Romans. Who cold heartedly nailed him on a cross. Most likely a reflection of how Rome were against christianism. and ofcourse, the Bible shouldn't have a sad ending, Jesus resurrects to give the believers some hope.
In the end it isn't about who's the most truthful, it's about who gets the most believers. Christianism succeeded mostly because everyone was considered equal, which made it popular among the majority of peasants and workers back in those days. Which wasn't all too popular among the kings and rich rulers, a king being equal to a peasant? Not an appreciated thought among those who had status. So they had to bargain, priests got the "approval of God" to announce that kings/emperors were chosen by God and that way, they could keep their power, nobody would like to mess with someone chosen by God, right? Religion, a powerful tool of power that controlls the unwitting.
I'm glad that my parents didn't raise me religiously, or I might have grown up to be a blind unwitting believer aswell. It's scary how parents can affect someone so much, is it not? I surely won't raise my own kids with any kind of belief and if they get introduced to it in school, I'll conflict it. One good thing about christians is that they're bound to be nice though, but the lack respect for non-believers, and I wouldn't want my kids to grow up worshipping something that isn't true. I want them to be free thinkers and be able to find their own inner peace without a pre-set religion sect with teachings about fairytales.
There you have my major thoughts on Christianism. I don't believe in any kind of religion though as they're mostly tools that take advantage of the believers. If I were to choose one religion that I don't see as very bad it would be buddhism though, it can hardly be considered a religion as it's non-theistic and mainly a philosophy. Something to keep for yourself, not worshipping a God but instead focus on yourself with meditation and finding inner peace.
If I had to choose a religion it would be buddhism, but the case is that today I don't have to choose one, I'm free to be without a religion or philosophy and I do sometimes meditate for inner peace, mostly as a stress reliever. I don't think meditation should be labelled with a religion though, it's like labelling the consumption of wine to be Christian. To me, meditation is a neutral action such as sleeping.
I'm just not the kind of person who'd believe in something others made up. Rather would I create my own that appeals to me, and then keep it to myself.
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:52 pm
While the Bible does seen to have many extraordinary and unrealistic things that not only Jesus, but others controlled by God, did, I think that one has the right to believe in them, especially if there are many eyewitness accounts from different places and points in time.
For Christianity in particular, it would be practically impossible for one person to write all of it and plant in history. It was written over far more time than one man's lifespan, and the events in the Bible have many other documents from the time periods that record the same facts. For one person to have written all of that, it would have to take place after all of the events happened in order to assure they could accurately record all of the known events as it did. However, that would not explain the existence of portions of the Bible before other events that come later have a chance to be recorded as the rest of it. So there is no possible way that one person could have created the religion and the likelihood that so many people across such a long span of time would have so many identical stories or hallucinations or whatever you would refer to them as.
Honestly, I respect the fact that you do not plan to force any kind of religion onto your kids. It truly means nothing it their minds were wrapped around an idea while they are still young and unable to think the decision through themselves. However, I dearly hope you are not going to force them not to believe in a religion, either. After all, if they find a religion, learn about, and decide they believe in it, it would be just as bad as raising them on that religion not to let them follow it. I personally plan to educate any children I do have on what I know about religions, and let them choose what they believe.
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Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:44 pm
I really doubt that my children would decide to believe in a religion, but I suppose you never really know, I'd make sure they know everything there is to know about the religion first though, good and bad, then if they're still interested, then I'd respect their decisions, showing that they can think for themselves would make me proud, to realise their own mistakes would make me even prouder. Not saying that joining a religion is a mistake, but degrading yourself to a level under something else, God or saint is a limitation of your capabilities.
I'd consider myself as my own God, because only I have the power to decide how my life will turn out, and it is my own decisions that will determine if things go well or not so well. If I lack skills I have myself to blame for not practicing enough, and if I want something done properly, I do it myself, rather than relying on others, for then I have myself to blame if things doesn't turn out the way they were meant to, and easier would it be to correct the mistakes, as I was around when they were made since I was the one who made the mistakes myself. That's my way of life. I'd say I'm a man of responsibility for my actions. I have no need for a religion and I hope my children won't be in need of religion either, but instead be able to act on their own and think rationally, making their own decisions.
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