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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:31 pm
Most of my rants get posted in my journal, but I'll transfer a few of them here.
This first one is primarily a question and some insight on myself and the way I think/feel about holidays, and only secondly a rant-- but I was really pissed off when I typed it up and it relieved some of that tension, so I'm counting it.So, after this thread here I have to ask. IS it stupid that I get annoyed with people wishing me a merry christmas?
Is it stupid that it grates on me after a while?
Keeping in mind thatI don't celebrate holidays in general.I don't really have any family to celebrate with, even if I did.I'm always working on holidays.and I hate the fact that people say it to everyone, even when they're clearly Muslim, Jewish, not christian.
Is it wrong for me to be annoyed on their behalf, or ashamed of my fellow Americans for being, what feels to me, inconsiderate. It's not selfish, I suppose, because they're trying to spread good cheer (though doing so only because it's a holiday is a little hypocritical) but the least they can do is take into account that the person's beliefs may be different. You may not mean any harm by wishing me a merry christmas, and while I can grin and bear it, how many other people DO get offended? Some people probably feel like you're making generalizations, assuming that they celebrate your holiday because they're in America, or disregarding their beliefs altogether. Maybe it's silly of me to care on their behalf at all.
But I do.
If a large number of people started wishing you a happy Hispanic Mother's Day, you'd be like Bzuh!? You might not complain, but it doesn't make it an appropriate greeting. You might even point out that you're not Hispanic. And possibly not female.
I don't even do that. I just accept it quietly. And yet I've been told that caring at all is overreacting. I guess I should never have an opinion again.
And Being wished a happy holiday on a day that sucks by sheer fact that everyone's out of town or busy, everything's closed, and it's bloody lonely, really doesn't make me more cheerful.
No, it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. No, I don't complain to their faces, or to anyone irl, really. I don't lobby to get laws or practices changed. It's a minor annoyance, but one that makes an already unpleasant day a degree worse.
It's like people objecting to gay pride because they're flaunting their sexuality, forcing it upon them. Well stop rubbing your bloody holidays and cheerfulness in my face. I'm not gay... Uh. I mean Christian.
((PS, I support gay pride fully, but most of the people I know who are so obsessive about everyone using merry christmas are the conservative types who do look at it as flaunting, so this is me trying to communicate on their level.))
--------------------------------------------
On the matter of Christmas and the matter of Christmas vs Santa Claus. The religious holiday vs the secular aspects. Loss of meaning and religion.
I don't celebrate it, but I think if you want to give gifts on Christmas-- say you're doing it in tribute to the wise men who brought gifts to Jesus and only do gift giving for the children. Cut it off after a certain age. Adults should be mature enough to celebrate on the basis of their faith, without needing presents to sugarcoat the holiday.
Giving gifts shouldn't be about obligation. It should be done out of the kindness of your heart, because you want to, not because it's that time of year. Give them on birthdays, give them randomly throughout the year as it strikes your fancy, not because it's 'tradition' to do so. It's tradition for the wrong reasons.
Celebrate Christmas for its religious connotations, if you're Christian and hold off the gift-giving for when it's sincere.
I mean, seriously, it's bloody expensive to buy gifts for everyone all at once like that. 'The season' just causes so many people so much more stress than it should. How's that in the spirit of celebration and recognition?
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:03 pm
I don't know if I'm allowed to comment on your rants, but I feel I must. I must say, merry christmas is usually a way of either positive greeting, farewell, or just a kind thing to say. People don't mean to say it to offend people, and for some, such as myself, it is just used because the day is considered Christmas, and they don't really care about the religious implications. Being the aethiest I am, I don't see the point in being offended when someone wishes me a merry christmas.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:09 pm
Of course you can comment.
And yes, I understand where you're coming from and accept that. I don't get offended myself, but I know some people do. I'm not easily offended, but I sometimes get up in arms about the rights and feelings of others.
I suppose I hadn't thought about it like that. The day is christmas, whether you acknowledge the holiday or not. But at the same time today is December 9th. Can I go around saying Merry December Ninth? At that point you're completely separating the religious connotations from the day, which is what offends most of the overzealous christians who insist that asking them to say happy holidays is offensive.
I don't know. There's no easy solution, though one side will always seem clearer or preferable to someone than another.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:16 pm
Ok. The only problem is that there will always be the stubborn, rather close-minded people that stick to one side and don't listen to anything people who believe in the other side of the argument say, and the debate will still go on.
Such is the way the world is now.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:28 pm
Of course. Hell, how much fun would the world be if we al got along? rolleyes
I don't ever go into a debate of any sort planning to change the person's views, only to present and defend my own. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Who am I to say what is right or wrong? I can disagree, disapprove, I can tell the person they're wrong, but in the end it's a matter of personal opinion and perspective. Everything is.
If you tell me that you think what Hitler did was right, for example, I would disagree with you, but I couldn't PROVE that you were wrong or in good conscience even insist that I'm right. All I could do in a situation like that is present opinions. You could give facts, numbers, sure, but as far as I can say for certain, none of the facts make it indisputably wrong. Again, good - evil, right - wrong, all matters of perspective.
I guess it depends on how you interpret the words. Good, bad, immoral, etc.
I'm often disappointed by the things people believe, but such is life.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:31 pm
The thing I hate about this time of year?
Bill O'Reilly and his war on christmas spiel.
I'm gonna find that guy and educate him good.
With my foot.
Up his a**.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:36 pm
I'm not familiar. Enlighten me?
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:48 pm
He believe that the politically correct greeting of Happy Holidays is a personal attack on this "Christian" nation and an attack of Christmas.
Because people get s**t for saying Merry Christmas, he devotes segments on his show on the topic of how Christmas is getting overrun by the "politically correct" and how Christians are biased against and s**t.
He's on a ******** news network.
I do believe there is waay more important s**t to be reporting than the fact a greeting is going out of favor.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:55 pm
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:04 pm
Yeah, that's the sort of thing that irks me. I don't mind if you celebrate christmas, but I don't. If I respect what you celebrate, I expect you to do the same.
We're not trying to demean your holiday, we're not trying to attack it or christianity, we just want you to stop assaulting ours and us, by believing something so ridiculous.
And so what if businesses and such are becoming more PC. It's not a slag on christmas. I mean why should christmas be the predominantly featured holiday anyway? People don't want things to change, but why do they think Merry Christmas deserves to be said any more than happy anything else? Is it because it's the holiday celebrated by the most people? Or because christand and americans are conceited ******** who think the world revolves around them? It's just progressed that way over the years so now people are afraid of change. Things like this make me hate 'tradition'.
Bah.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:05 pm
As you are saying, people are entitled to their own opinion. If someone wishes to celebrate chanukah (please forgive me if I mispell it, I don't really research holidays), then let them celebrate chanukah, and greet people in the way that is familiar to them; in other words, saying happy chanukh. Or, if you celebrate christmas, do the same with that holiday. Or any other. Kwanzaa, halloween, whatever. Just don't go around attacking people for greeting you. It would be like someone coming up to me and saying, " merry [insert holiday here]", and me just lugging them in the face. t's rude, it's unkind, and frankly, it's very closed-minded.
And about what you said earlier about just defending your view. I believe that, if I know that it would be a better solution than the more common one, and I believe in that idea, that I should take it upon myself to convert others to my point of view. Or, at the very least, let them know that this idea exists. That way, we don't all end up fighting each other over stupid things that could easily be solved by a mutual accepting of others religions, races, cultures, etc.
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Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:25 pm
I'm sort of morally against converting anyone in anything, especially referencing religion. When it comes to something like gay rights, I think they should have them and I'm willing to try to make it so, but I won't try and convince every dissenter that it should be so or that they're wrong. It's kind of contradictory on my part, but the way I see it, in terms of religion:
I'm an atheist.
Now say that I'm talking to a nice devout christian girl about my beliefs and my views. What if I am convincing, what if I make her question her beliefs and eventually convert? Sure, I may think my opinion is right, that there's nothing after death, no afterlife, but what if I'm wrong? What if there is?
And what if, by converting her to my system of beliefs, I've denied her her place in heaven?
Of course it's up to each person to stay true and faithful to their religious leanings, but we all questions sometimes.
As remote as the possibility seems to me, should I be incorrect, I would not want that on my conscience.
I'll only debate religion or even really talk about my opinions in depth if the other person is asking for them and understands that I am not trying to prove that I'm right, only to defend myself.
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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:29 pm
I apologize for my poor choice of vocabulary. When I say convert, I don't mean just make them believe what I do. I just mean change their course to a more positive or helpful one. And, on terms of religion, I am also an aethiest (though I was born into a mormon family). I don't think I should change other people's beliefs in god, buddha, whatever they believe in. I do, however, don't want the entire world to be ignorant of other people's cultures and completely hate them for having a different idea of what makes the world go 'round. Chosen ignorance of other sides of a subject is, in my opinion, a very, very bad sin. Worse than Lust. At least to me. But then, what with those who believe that they should take it upon themselves to be closed-minded, the world will pretty much always have some degree of ignorance. But we can always try and help.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:13 pm
You have got it exactly right, DBTT. Ignorance is the only sin, in my opinion. All else is secondary.
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:59 pm
fallenseeker You have got it exactly right, DBTT. Ignorance is the only sin, in my opinion. All else is secondary. Well, there is the sin of Envy that still bothers me... actually, I don't mind the sin of Wrath. I think that it is the least of all the bad sins, but that may just be me trying to console myself, as I am usually a very angry person because the people who are always around me are, pardon my language, ******** backwater hillbillies. They piss me off so much with their inability to listen to someone else's point of view, constantly attempting to assert theirs as correct. They also attempt to pick on me for having what they call 'nerd grades'. Though I usually consider the term nerd, especially when applied to myself, a compliment, in this setting it is just a catalyst for my anger. I got in trouble because I decked this very tall kid (tallest one in our class, actually) right in the face, and knocking him to the ground. The principal just so happened to be walking by when I did so.
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