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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:17 pm
Anyone who's read the most recent chapter of Hellsing (Chapter 89, Black Onyx 2) knows that the Major's plan to defeat Alucard has finally succeeded. Alucard has disappeared.
From what I understand, Alucard absorbed Schrödinger's soul, and then Schrödinger asserted control and transported the two of them to "nowhere" (a lovely place where only Schrödinger can go), in effect, erasing Alucard from normal existence. If that's correct, then Alucard is not "dead". He's gone. Completely gone. However, if Schrödinger still exists, somehow, then isn't it possible that Alucard does, as well? The strange nature of Alucard's disappearance makes me wonder what the purpose of the bloody pentagram on the last page is. Is it a symbol that represents Alucard's death (such as Pip's smoldering cigarette or the Captain's broken dog tag), or a lingering sign of his eventual return?
What do you think?
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:43 pm
That chapter...I haven't been that sad and let down over fiction since the last Harry Potter book came out. X_x
Well, in my view point....
Alucard cannot 'die' like that, simply because of that whole "Dog, a man, or a monster" thing.
He had such a peaceful look...doesn't that seem OOC for a dying Alucard? Sure, A dying Alucard at Integra's hands would have that expression, because he wants to die....
but why would Alucard react that way if he knew Millennium brought about his demise?
Nope, nooo... An expression of an Alucard that just died thanks to The Major and a catboy would be alot less content and excepting. sweatdrop Why? Because The Major is not a 'man', he is a 'monster'. And doesn't death by Millennium seem like something Alucard would not be too joyous about....
There is the idea that Alucard just decided that this was the end, and that, at this point, dying the way he wanted to was impossible.
He could have simply decided his time was up, and that all there was left to do was except that fact, say goodbye to Integra, and let it happen....
But it just doesn't seem right to me. He's either coming back sometime, or Kouta Hirano managed to mess up details in his own characters personality.(Or we all misjudged Alucards personality, but I doubt it. xD )
So yeah.
The pentagram....I see the argument working either way.... It could be some little hint of his returns, similar to his great come back in the OA, or it could simply be that last image to show everyone....he's dead.
And another thing....what state would he be in if he returned? What is nowhere exactly: Its a state of non being....its between space and time, y'knowww.... Sooo....If Alucard does get back to us.... Will no time have passed for him in nowhere? ...or would centuries have passed in nowhere? =/
Or was it even 'nowhere'? Taking string theory and stuff into consideration, there is a possibility or parallel worlds...?
Also, was it just sending him to a state of non-being, or was Schro also messing with his head...has Schro possibly thrown Alucards mind off even more? (I doubt thats possible..)
=/
Finally, we have not yet seen Seras react....Wouldn't Seras, of all characters, know if he was really dead or not?
I don't know. But you know what? My theories are wrong most of the time.
So I am just going to sit back, relax, except that Alucard is dead and never coming back....
That way, I can be either joyous when he does comeback, or content with him not coming back, if he's really dead...
((Damn, that was a long frickin' post. X_x I hope you could understand my typing, cause I'm not bothering to proof read it. sweatdrop ))
My vote on your little pole is that Alucard must come back....so he can die the right way, damn it! (Man, anyone who would actually click the 'serve Hellsing forever' option has no respect for Alu's feelings. xD )
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:31 pm
Well damn, since you pointed out how other dead characters left behind objects similar in manner to what Alucard left behind... I'm even MORE convinced that he isn't coming back. D':
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:34 pm
Suni moon That chapter...I haven't been that sad and let down over fiction since the last Harry Potter book came out. X_x Well, in my view point.... Indeed, anybody that thinks that Alucard will still be alive at the end of this series has seriously misunderstood Alucard's character. Alucard is a monster who wishes to die at the hands of a man. In fact, he wishes to die so desperately that he does not care what manner of man kills him, so long as it is a man who kills him. The question is, is the Major a man, or a monster? He says he's a man, and he certainly seems like one. Aside from living for 55 years without aging, he has done nothing to prove he is anything other than what he claims to be. He's short and fat and has no supernatural powers to speak of. He even has poor aim with a pistol. So why doubt the Major's humanity? Because he doesn't act like a human. Except for Alucard, the Major is the cruelest, most monstrous person in the story. The real question is, what makes a man a man, and what makes a monster a monster? If the Major is to be considered a man, then cruelty cannot possibly be the deciding factor in determining whether a person is a man or a monster, because the Major is just as cruel as Alucard is (if not more so, considering the Major has no intention of trying to redeem himself). As of now, the deciding factor is choice. A man becomes a monster when he chooses to (the reason he makes the choice is irrelevant). Alucard chose to become a monster, while the Major chose to remain a man. If cruelty plays into the equation at all, then perhaps Alucard will return. If not, then perhaps he will remain dead (or, more appropriately, gone). At least he went happily. Podkayne of Mars Well damn, since you pointed out how other dead characters left behind objects similar in manner to what Alucard left behind... I'm even MORE convinced that he isn't coming back. D': Bear in mind, however, this is Alucard we're talking about.
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:00 pm
NoLifeKing66 Podkayne of Mars Well damn, since you pointed out how other dead characters left behind objects similar in manner to what Alucard left behind... I'm even MORE convinced that he isn't coming back. D': Bear in mind, however, this is Alucard we're talking about. I was just thinking that those objects may have been Hirano's way of saying "This guy's not coming back", no matter what character we're talking about. |D
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:18 pm
Podkayne of Mars NoLifeKing66 Podkayne of Mars Well damn, since you pointed out how other dead characters left behind objects similar in manner to what Alucard left behind... I'm even MORE convinced that he isn't coming back. D': Bear in mind, however, this is Alucard we're talking about. I was just thinking that those objects may have been Hirano's way of saying "This guy's not coming back", no matter what character we're talking about. |DAhaHA! But Pip DID come back, in a manner of speaking..
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:21 pm
Elindarhya Podkayne of Mars NoLifeKing66 Podkayne of Mars Well damn, since you pointed out how other dead characters left behind objects similar in manner to what Alucard left behind... I'm even MORE convinced that he isn't coming back. D': Bear in mind, however, this is Alucard we're talking about. I was just thinking that those objects may have been Hirano's way of saying "This guy's not coming back", no matter what character we're talking about. |DAhaHA! But Pip DID come back, in a manner of speaking.. Indeed! Pip is alive and well, inside Seras, and she can summon him whenever she wishes.
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:24 pm
NoLifeKing66 Elindarhya Podkayne of Mars NoLifeKing66 Podkayne of Mars Well damn, since you pointed out how other dead characters left behind objects similar in manner to what Alucard left behind... I'm even MORE convinced that he isn't coming back. D': Bear in mind, however, this is Alucard we're talking about. I was just thinking that those objects may have been Hirano's way of saying "This guy's not coming back", no matter what character we're talking about. |DAhaHA! But Pip DID come back, in a manner of speaking.. Indeed! Pip is alive and well, inside Seras, and she can summon him whenever she wishes. I don't think that makes him "alive", per se... (Edit: Well actually, nevermind, maybe so)
HOH! I smell a loop hole.
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:32 pm
I'm not sure how to word it, but I think the cruelty thing will have something to do with it.
Alucard has said some things in the past to suggest that he may respect the Major, at least a worthy enemy, but other classic Alucard moments suggest he would consider the major to be very....well, low.
The disgust he shows for the behavior of some vampires proves this....Then again, he may just show that disgust for their behavior because they are vampires, and any humans that behave like that (Or worse) are excused.
But I doubt it. Despite Alucards insanity and cruelty, he does have some slight...errmm...is morals the right word? I'm really not sure in his case. O_o;;
Convictions maybe?
I look at how Alucard thinks, and I cannot see him liking the Majors behavior all that much.
The Majors madness has lead to events that are....pointless... Alucard will brutally kill anything in his path, enjoy it, and have no remorse.... but he needs a reason...and not just a "my master told me so" reason.
(Afterall, if he was just running on Masters order, he would not be a monster....he would be merely a dog )
Putting the simple matter of cruelty into other terms.
The Major had the option to become a vampire, a true vampire, and probably one on the scale of Alucard....but he refused it and remained human. (I would have said 'kept his humanity' but The Major has very little 'humanity' )
He remained human, he's proudly stated he is human...but is he only saying this because it is the one thing that (he thinks) puts him in a safe place when it comes to killing Alucard?
He made a choise to remain human, but he also made a choice to follow his own path and desires to become something twisted worse then a vampire.
Also, I'm not sure if this has much to do with the subject but....
A vampire has made a stupid choice that caught up with them. To become a true monster, and now...regret it.
One choice, that officially screwed things up and sent them deeper, and deeper, into an eternal night.
But those twisted human beings out there? They don't have that excuse...They made choice, after choice....they followed whatever dark nature that was in them, and pushed aside anything redeeming about them.
So, what is worse?
I'm not going to say Vlad was right in the head before he became a vampire, but things got worse afterwords.
The Major....He has no excuse to be so sick and twisted.
He's human, therefore he has a soul, and should posses the good human qualities aswell as the bad. He does not.
BECAUSE he is human, he is far worse a monster then Alucard is.
If you get what I mean.
P.S. The Majors lasted 55 years without aging, but I think he put on a few pounds. xDDD (In reference to the original coyote version that eventually became The Major...)
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:45 pm
I think I really like your reasoning for why Major is a monster rather than a man, Suni. For me, I considered him to be so only because his actions would deem him a monster in a way that a person might consider Hitler, or another radical wrongdoer in history, a monster. I also thought so because of the ways in which Alucard compared Major to himself ("incorrigible warmongers"), but I simply could never think that those reasons were enough to compete with the fact his will to stay human proved stronger in the end. But I can see how your reasons could compete with that face. biggrin
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:46 pm
Suni moon I'm not sure how to word it, but I think the cruelty thing will have something to do with it. If cruelty has something to do with it, then Alucard might come back. If not, then he might not. Suni moon Alucard has said some things in the past to suggest that he may respect the Major, at least a worthy enemy, but other classic Alucard moments suggest he would consider the major to be very....well, low. More often than not, Alucard identifies himself with the Major ("Your lot and I truly are incorrigible warmongers, aren't we, Major?") and applauds his persistence ("I suppose you didn't learn a thing from being destroyed once!"). I don't recall Alucard ever degrading the Major (only the pathetic excuses for vampires he helped to produce). Suni moon The disgust he shows for the behavior of some vampires proves this....Then again, he may just show that disgust for their behavior because they are vampires, and any humans that behave like that (Or worse) are excused. The thing Alucard hates most about vampires is that they sacrificed their humanity to become monsters. Suni moon The Majors madness has lead to events that are....pointless... Alucard will brutally kill anything in his path, enjoy it, and have no remorse.... but he needs a reason...and not just a "my master told me so" reason. These events are not pointless. They have satisfied the Major's lust for war and his desire to kill Alucard. They were for very selfish point, but a point, nonetheless. The Major is a very selfish person, and it is his selfishness that motivates him. The only reason he chose to remain human was to preserve his own identity. Vampires absorb the souls, memories, and identities of their victims through their blood, and the Major says that "it is something I would not enjoy". Suni moon (Afterall, if he was just running on Masters order, he would not be a monster....he would be merely a dog ) Alucard is a dog. He never explicitly states it, but he implies it during his "I am a monster" speech. He tells Integra that he can kill people without remorse, but that "what will kill them is your intent". Although he will twist his master's orders so that he might bring as much death and destruction as possible, he needs his master's orders to do so. Suni moon A vampire has made a stupid choice that caught up with them. To become a true monster, and now...regret it. One choice, that officially screwed things up and sent them deeper, and deeper, into an eternal night. But those twisted human beings out there? They don't have that excuse...They made choice, after choice....they followed whatever dark nature that was in them, and pushed aside anything redeeming about them. As I said, the quality of being good or evil has nothing to do with whether a person is a man or a monster (at least, not as far as we know).
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:25 pm
@Podkayne of Mars
Oh, you agree with that? sweatdrop Well, I'm glad someone supports my theories. ^_^
@Nolifeking66
Aaaaaand my attempts at sounding non-baised on my character views, and perhaps intelligent have failed.
Ah well. Next time, I suppose.
*cracks knuckles and gets back to typing*
Anyway, it is obvious that if Alucard is really dead, then the whole Man, or Monster thing is completely irrelevent to the subject.
But if it does have any importance, then I think there is a semi-decent chance Alucard could come back. =/
I do honestly believe that there is a matter of humanity to the current subject.
Also, there are several characters that Alucard compares to himself, and each character has been a different part of him.
There have never been anything to say he detests The Major, but I just don't see him being overly pleased with the man either.
Finally, being 'good or evil' (honestly, I don't believe in either) may or may not play into Alucards current state, but I think it is something to keep an open mind on. =/
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:43 am
Suni moon Anyway, it is obvious that if Alucard is really dead, then the whole Man, or Monster thing is completely irrelevent to the subject. But if it does have any importance, then I think there is a semi-decent chance Alucard could come back. =/ I do honestly believe that there is a matter of humanity to the current subject. Also, there are several characters that Alucard compares to himself, and each character has been a different part of him. There have never been anything to say he detests The Major, but I just don't see him being overly pleased with the man either. Finally, being 'good or evil' (honestly, I don't believe in either) may or may not play into Alucards current state, but I think it is something to keep an open mind on. =/ The nature of humanity is one of Hellsing's most prevalent themes. If we are to understand the nature of humanity, then we must know exactly what makes a man a man and what makes a monster a monster. Alucard's death should have been the most enlightening event in the series. Instead, it is the most confusing. I don't think we'll fully understand what Hirano's trying to say about the nature of humanity until we find out whether or not Alucard will return.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:11 pm
Now that the scanslations of Chapter 89 are available, a little more light has been shed on this subject.
The Major tells Integra that, according to the "Schrödinger's Cat" theorem, Schrödinger must be able to recognize himself in order to maintain his quantum existence (his quality of being "everywhere and nowhere"). Now that Schrödinger has become a part of Alucard, he can no longer recognize himself, and thus he has ceased to exist. However, since he has become a part of Alucard (indeed, "one" with Alucard), and he has ceased to exist, Alucard must cease to exist, as well.
Hirano has killed two birds (or rather, a catboy and a vampire) with one stone. Very ingenius.
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:03 pm
perhaps that's why Schrodinger was created in the first place to finally "erase" alucard...
oh well, with everything else going the way it is I'm seriously beginning to think what kind of ending this series is going to have....
HO s**t
T3T NOOOO!!!! RIP'S GONE FOREVER!!!!!
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