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 Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:11 pm
I've been given some thought to the use of the elements and the cardinal directions they represent. As far as I've read traditionally it goes "Earth,Air, Fire, Water:North,east,south,west) While that may work for some, why not use something different?
I've come up with seasonal as well as compass directions that make sense to me and my practice (note this is new, so. I'm still developing the way it works and the myths involved). I see all life as a never ending cycle, which can be seen as the year or wheel turns.
North=Earth=Spring
East=Fire=Summer
South=Air=Autumn
West=Water=Winter.
If you think about the cycle of the year, the first "full" season in the new calendar year is Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. Thus matching the elements with the seasons and with the cycle of life, death, and rebirth.
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:11 pm
Interesting. I wonder why I never thought of that. It seems like something that would make practical sense without having to really think about it, but I never thought of adding the seasons into the equation. However, wouldn't it be:
East=Air=Winter
South=Fire=Spring
West=Water=Summer
North=Earth=Autumn
Makes more sense that way to me 3nodding
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:49 pm
Oh boy. This is a bad topic for me. I'll try not to rant. I'm not stick-in-the-mud on many things, but this is one of those exceptions.
Going back to original sources is smart. It's good research. If you go back to the original source (Greeks, specifically Aristotle) there's only one way the elements can go, especially in terms of order.
It absolutely has to be Air-Fire-Earth-Water. The full explanation of why this is would take some time, so I won't go into it here. But it should be rather intuitively evident that in a natural cycle, elemental opposites cannot be next to each other. Any rotational cycle that does not apply the elements in this order is wrong in accord with the original source of the system. And yes, this makes the common Neopagan way of doing things wrong. One of my research goals is to figure out WHY the Neopagan order is wrong... if there was actually a valid reason somewhere down the line for breaking the rotation. Or at least I want to find out who first busted it.
After that, if you understand the Greek system, where the elements go in relation to the seasons is also pretty straightforward and set. Same with age correspondences. Directions... don't quite mesh as well but also fall into place pretty well if you get the system.
But... you probably really don't want me to go off on a long lecture on this. I have pages written on it in my BoS... xd
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Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:54 am
The reason I see the way I do is this:
Earth=fertility=growth=spring
Fire=transformation=seedling=start of harvest=summer
Air=wisdom and preparation=actual harvest=autumn
Water=rest and relaxation=prep for new life=winter
It follows the way I see the cycle of the earth here. It goes on how I feel about each element and what some of the things they represent. Plus The sun rises in the east and sets in the west, which makes fire the east for the sun, and it's opposite is the west for water.
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:53 am
I can see that working. I just understand too much of the Greek system to do it that way, though if you just flip Air and Earth that's the system I use (though for different reasons sometimes). For instance, I have a hard time seeing 'Earth' as growth because by the properties (DRY and cool) it is about contraction, creating form, and structuring. But what does 'growth' mean, really? Depending on how you look at 'growth' all of the elements exhibit 'growth' just like all of them can inform 'intelligence' only of different sorts of intelligence. Truly, all elements are present all the time and everywhere anyway... it's more a matter of discerning which is 'dominant' in a given object or time period than another.
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Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:55 am
Like I said, this is a new system I am going to try for the next year to see how it works. The other system just didn't seem to work for me, and the reason I see earth as fertility is in which element do we plan our harvest? We need all 4 to live, but only one is the "root", and that is earth.
Plus in my view the Earth is mother, and the Sun father. Together they create fertility and life. As my practice is centered around life and it's balances, Earth and Fire are prominent elements in my practice. Second to water. Water is the rest between life and death, and it makes Samhain an air and water ritual.
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:56 pm
Another thing I have been thinking about as of late have been tools associated with the elements and the like. Symbols on the alter and invocation... what works for what?
Feather-air
Wand-Earth
Athame-fire
Sea Shell-water
Those are just my invocation tools, for symbols I use crystals and salt for earth, incence for air, a candle for fire, and water for water.
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:33 pm
The reason earth has always been linked with north is that it is the dark direction, furthest from the equator, and the pole. Caves, deep earth, decomposition and so forth. This is why it's commonly reversed to south in the southern hemisphere. Therefore, I can only see it as winter.
South and the equator would be summer, of course, as that's where the sun is.
Earth - North - Winter
Fire - South - Summer
Now, Spring and Autumn are more iffy and could go either way. You could say, you get more rain in spring and more wind in autumn, so air = autumn and water = spring.
That's personally the way I would arrange them, as I link water with fertility. Also the air seems to have much more fun in autumn, with all those fallen leaves.
Earth - North - Winter
Water - West - Spring
Fire - South - Summer
Air - East - Autumn
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:43 am
I see earth as fertility and growth. When you plant a plant where does it grow? Not in water, not in air, not in fire but in the earth. One may argue that there are plants in water, but they are connected at the root to the earth...
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:57 am
Yes, but there's fertility in each season. They're all essential. Sure, life comes from the earth, but it also returns to it.
When I think earth, I think of compost, mountains, that sort of thing. Evergreens.
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:10 pm
Every one is going to be different. That's just the way it is with witchcraft and magic.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:58 am
I haven't studied Aristotle in eight years, but I recall the order of the elements being earth-water-air-fire. I don't, however, recall their direction and season associations. Just that south was at the top of a Greek map.
Anyway, according to my mother, who teaches these kinds of things, it goes:
north-winter-earth
east-spring-water
south-summer-air
west-autumn-fire
I agree entirely with the direction-season connections, but am a bit undecided about the elements. It's also important to remember that the roles of north and south are reversed when you cross the equator, as are clockwise and counterclockwise.
I prefer the model
north-winter-earth
east-spring-fire
south-summer-air
west-autumn-water
I'm not sure what my Native American relatives use for the associations, though, just the colors.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:07 am
The one you posted is simaler to mine, but what I don't understand is why the spring is fire.. do you think you could explain a bit more?
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:46 am
Spring is a time of birth and new life, which is granted by the divine spark, thus, fire, along with the sun rising in the east, bringing warmth to the land. Although I honestly follow a more dualistic observance of seasons. Summer begins at dawn on May 1st, and ends at sunset on October 31st, when winter takes over until next May.
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:18 pm
I never thought of it that way. Interesting theory.
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