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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:03 pm
Ok, EoGers I have a bit of an issue, that I need to get solved. It's Cookie and Jasmine's spereation anxiety problem. It happends almost everything one is not in sign and the other goes nutts. Like today, were were going to take turns putting them in the round pen, and let thme run around and be in another place other than the main paddock. My dad took Jaz and since i was actually going to put Cookie in first then let jaz go in after he said he take her for a walk, ok, until once jasmine was out of sight cookie got all nervous like "omg! where is my Jasmine!!! Where did she go!!! AHHH I'm lonely!!!". and miss cookie is alpha so i guess her bitting and chasing after jasmine does not go through her mind now, she 'needs' jasmine. She would not stay still, and no friendly or yoyo game helped here. she alost ran me over. >.> by now Jasmine and my dad are almost down the driveway. and so i put cook in the pen, she was running bucking rearing, and not becasue she was happy to burn some energy, she was nervous, she keep trying to look for jasmine, but she wasn't in sight. But she did roll a few times so i guess for about 8 seconds of her life she was OK without her. Jasmine was actually good about this, just alittle nervous ging dopwn thew driveway becasue she hasn't been down it in a while, not becasue cookie wasn't there. We decided to put them together in the pen and there were alright. then some more rolling.
So please EoG i need some help if this continues it may crash my hopes of my first show season. I don't know how calm Cookie would ever be at a show, if her dearest Jasmine is not there to 'calm' her.
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:53 pm
Well, lots of times when you take them right away from home, some where completely different where their whinnies aren't answered, they're ok. Especially if there are other stranger horses around. One thing you could do, if this is available to you, is put them in seperate paddocks, where they can see and hear each other, but not touch. They won't like it at first, but it wont be as dreastic as taking them completely out of sight. You should get them used to talking one of them away (probably cookie since thats the one you're going to show), throw the other a flake of hay, and put the one you've taken out in a place where they can eat too. If you do this regularly enough, they get used to it, and the herd boundness gets better.
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Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:13 pm
Brat_and_a_half Well, lots of times when you take them right away from home, some where completely different where their whinnies aren't answered, they're ok. Especially if there are other stranger horses around. One thing you could do, if this is available to you, is put them in seperate paddocks, where they can see and hear each other, but not touch. They won't like it at first, but it wont be as dreastic as taking them completely out of sight. You should get them used to talking one of them away (probably cookie since thats the one you're going to show), throw the other a flake of hay, and put the one you've taken out in a place where they can eat too. If you do this regularly enough, they get used to it, and the herd boundness gets better. I get ya, yeah, like we have there main paddock attached to the barn and about 3--50 yards away in the round pen, they can still see eachother and probably hear eachother, since both of them are really loud. rofl
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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:36 pm
Okay, I'm going to go into a bit of behaviorist musings here, so bare with me. I don't know how helpful it will be, but... well, sometimes my musings wind up somewhere somewhat productive.
Seeing as Cookie was the one who got nervous, and is also the "low man" in the herd, I would say that the problem is less specifically Jasmine being gone, but Cookie's insecurity of being the "lone horse". The alpha horse is actually a position of considerable responsibility. They have to be the ones to watch out for danger, and let everyone else know what to do, where to go, etc. Some horses naturally step into this place without question from any other horse in the field (my thoroughbred was like this), others need to constantly reassert this dominance (Griffin was like this) and other horses would be much happier just to let someone else tell them what to do (Danny was this one), and there is everything in between. When it comes down to it though, in the wild, a lone horse is a dead horse. The horse that is the "alpha" of the herd is more confident being alone because they're used to having to watch out, to control their surroundings. The more submissive horse will panic because suddenly, their protector is gone. It might seem like Jasmine is always chasing and biting at her, but Cookie probably depends on Jasmine for a lot. My thoroughbred and the quarter horse he lived with displayed the same behavior. Mack didn't care one way or the other if Woody was around or not. I'd take him trail riding, take him out to work, whatever. Didn't phase him. Woody, on the other hand, would go into a completely spastic attack if Mack left his sight. Mack was the uber-dominant one, Woody was submissive. I think your key to solving your problems here is going to lie in convincing Cookie that you are also part of her "herd", and that when you and Cookie are together, you two are the herd, and you are the alpha. She'll need to be confident enough in you to depend on you for her safety. From your first post, I'm guessing that you're somewhat into the natural horsemanship movement, which is a great way to build your horse's confidence in you. I'm not the biggest Parelli fan in the world because I don't like the over-commercialization of the "savvy system", but I will acknowledge that those people are marketing GENIUSES (we're studying them in my equine business class), and I'm taking a natural horsemanship course at the moment and the theories are sound. Ground work is very helpful for helping to build your horse's confidence in you. Where do you normally work with her? Is it within sight of the pasture where Jasmine lives? How confident is she normally with the seven games (assuming that this is the program that you're working her through, if not, ignore me. It's been a strange day)? Try working with her in an area that is near where Jasmine is, so that she can still see and hear her comfortably. Work your way up to taking Jasmine away completely by moving her farther away, and show Cookie that she can still depend on you to fulfill the leadership role. As she gets nervous, keep her busy. Change things up and keep her thinking. Add new challenges to exercises you've had mastered for a while. Keep her mind engaged and focused on you. You might be tempted to focus on easy simple things, since she's already stressed, but the more she thinks about Jasmine not being there, the more worked up she'll get. So get her attention, and then keep it by making yourself and what you're doing as interesting as possible. Not scary, not intimidating. Just interesting.
I'm not sure entirely how helpful that was, I kind of circled around a few topics a few time and I'm not sure if I ever alighted on them, but hopefully it was somewhat useful.
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:16 pm
AriaStarSong Okay, I'm going to go into a bit of behaviorist musings here, so bare with me. I don't know how helpful it will be, but... well, sometimes my musings wind up somewhere somewhat productive. Seeing as Cookie was the one who got nervous, and is also the "low man" in the herd, I would say that the problem is less specifically Jasmine being gone, but Cookie's insecurity of being the "lone horse". The alpha horse is actually a position of considerable responsibility. They have to be the ones to watch out for danger, and let everyone else know what to do, where to go, etc. Some horses naturally step into this place without question from any other horse in the field (my thoroughbred was like this), others need to constantly reassert this dominance (Griffin was like this) and other horses would be much happier just to let someone else tell them what to do (Danny was this one), and there is everything in between. When it comes down to it though, in the wild, a lone horse is a dead horse. The horse that is the "alpha" of the herd is more confident being alone because they're used to having to watch out, to control their surroundings. The more submissive horse will panic because suddenly, their protector is gone. It might seem like Jasmine is always chasing and biting at her, but Cookie probably depends on Jasmine for a lot. My thoroughbred and the quarter horse he lived with displayed the same behavior. Mack didn't care one way or the other if Woody was around or not. I'd take him trail riding, take him out to work, whatever. Didn't phase him. Woody, on the other hand, would go into a completely spastic attack if Mack left his sight. Mack was the uber-dominant one, Woody was submissive. I think your key to solving your problems here is going to lie in convincing Cookie that you are also part of her "herd", and that when you and Cookie are together, you two are the herd, and you are the alpha. She'll need to be confident enough in you to depend on you for her safety. From your first post, I'm guessing that you're somewhat into the natural horsemanship movement, which is a great way to build your horse's confidence in you. I'm not the biggest Parelli fan in the world because I don't like the over-commercialization of the "savvy system", but I will acknowledge that those people are marketing GENIUSES (we're studying them in my equine business class), and I'm taking a natural horsemanship course at the moment and the theories are sound. Ground work is very helpful for helping to build your horse's confidence in you. Where do you normally work with her? Is it within sight of the pasture where Jasmine lives? How confident is she normally with the seven games (assuming that this is the program that you're working her through, if not, ignore me. It's been a strange day)? Try working with her in an area that is near where Jasmine is, so that she can still see and hear her comfortably. Work your way up to taking Jasmine away completely by moving her farther away, and show Cookie that she can still depend on you to fulfill the leadership role. As she gets nervous, keep her busy. Change things up and keep her thinking. Add new challenges to exercises you've had mastered for a while. Keep her mind engaged and focused on you. You might be tempted to focus on easy simple things, since she's already stressed, but the more she thinks about Jasmine not being there, the more worked up she'll get. So get her attention, and then keep it by making yourself and what you're doing as interesting as possible. Not scary, not intimidating. Just interesting. I'm not sure entirely how helpful that was, I kind of circled around a few topics a few time and I'm not sure if I ever alighted on them, but hopefully it was somewhat useful. Thanks, you did get it a little backward, as in Cookei is the Alpha mare and jasmine is under her, but it's ok. and yes i'm ding N.H, Parelli so yep seven games. Jasmine has just gotten to the house about 4 months ago, we are starting the seven games with her, and Cookie has already have Monty Roberts background and is doing Parelli now, she knows the games. We have a 60-ft round pen about 30 yards away but is in clear sight of the barn and Jasmine and Cookie. they can see and hear eachother. It's been a long cold snowy winter and no indoor so i coudln't do much with them now, but the games and traning are returning. And before Jasmine came Cookie was alone for about 6 months. never shown any signs of aloneness. But thnaks for the seven games tip i'll take that into consideration and it probably will work, thanks!
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:29 pm
hm, apparently I forgot how to read then. Sorry about that!
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:14 pm
AriaStarSong hm, apparently I forgot how to read then. Sorry about that! ]Eh, don't worrie about it, it's ok. ^.^
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:42 pm
Little Update: I took cookie out of the paddock and went down to the round pen, she was fine, not nervous or anything, Jasmien was still back in the main paddock, and she was good too, i didn't hear her and neither of them were talking. Me and Cookie did a nice join-up sesson too. ^^ The factor of cookie only gets nervous is when both of them are out at the same time might contribute.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:17 pm
We had the same problem at my barn with two of the mares. I don't know how you do things at your place, but we bring all the horses in and feed them in their stalls every night.
Mariah and Nikki had really bad anxiety, so we put them in stalls where they couldn't see each other when they were eating. Then we put them back out together when they were done every night, so they figured out that they weren't going to be separated forever. It worked really well. Now they know it's no big deal being away from each other for a little while.
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