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Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:52 pm
There was a thread in another forum that was titled DC vs Marvel. The creator basically said that DC has Superman and pretty much no one in Marvel could touch him. I added in a few people who could beat Superman. Such as Proteus, the Phoenix, the Juggernaut, and the Silver Surfer. I told him a more fair fight would be between Superman and Thor. He didn't agree that Thor or the Juggernaut stood a chance. I argued that the Juggernaut has an invulnerability level higher than Superman's and his magical shield might be able to do some serious damage to Superman.
I was wondering what you guys thought. Who would win in a fight between the Juggernaut and Superman?
Edit: Sorry, I did not see the subforums before posting this.
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:35 pm
Superman wins:
Juggernaut since his de-powerment and recent RE-powerment, has regained his class 100 strength capabilities.
However, his more susceptible to fatigue and he can be injured far more easily prior to being depowered.
Superman, on the other hand, is far from having to worry about fatigue especially within the Juggernaut's "several days" limit. He's always been nigh invulnerable and more importantly, still is, being able to survive low yielding nuclear explosions and MULTIPLE ONES AT THAT along with ten megaton detonation bomb with being knocked unconscious the only consequence suffered. Superman even withstood Darkseid's Omega Effect.
In short, Juggs can dish-out A LOT more than he can take in. PLUS, Jugg's reflexes aren't quick enough being even slower than the Hulk's.
...
I also must say that guy must have been smoking chingos of weed to think Thor doesn't stand a chance. Thor has handed the Surfer his a** on several occasions, something Superman himself would be hard pressed to do.
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:07 am
I assumed that the Juggernaut was also nigh invulnerable. I figured he was even more invulnerable than Superman. I am not talking of the depowered Juggernaut, of course. The Juggernaut has even survived an attack where Thor unleashed the full power of his godforce. Thor said it was an attack that once drove back Galactus. Juggernaut seemed unharmed, but it did push him back somehow. I would assume Juggs can survive a few nuclear blasts like Superman. I also thought that his fatigue limit of "several days" was only while he was depowered, but it seems that you are suggesting that since his re-powerment, he still has a fatigue limit. I'm going to continue assuming that the Juggernaut has limitless stamina and near instant healing, until I see otherwise. The Juggernaut has been flayed into a skeleton and still able to stand, walk, talk, and pick up his enemy to squeeze him. Apparently, not even removing his muslces could stop him. I appreciate the reply, though.
Thor vs Superman is a fight I would like to see.
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:11 pm
I'm going to agree with Kuroudo Akabane that Jugernaut loses, if for no other reason than he's just too slow.
Keep in mind that at Superman's speed levels anyone even remotely CLOSE to human limitations in action/reaction time is going to have a hard time getting so much as a hit in unless they have some MAJOR tricks up their sleeves. Even if Jugernaut does have greater levels of invulnerability (something I wouldn't know, as my studies of the Marvelverse are far from absolute) it wouldn't really matter... because he has no way to get any hits in.
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Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:04 am
Deviedes I'm going to agree with Kuroudo Akabane that Jugernaut loses, if for no other reason than he's just too slow. Keep in mind that at Superman's speed levels anyone even remotely CLOSE to human limitations in action/reaction time is going to have a hard time getting so much as a hit in unless they have some MAJOR tricks up their sleeves. Even if Jugernaut does have greater levels of invulnerability (something I wouldn't know, as my studies of the Marvelverse are far from absolute) it wouldn't really matter... because he has no way to get any hits in. Well, with Juggs' shield up, he doesn't need to hit Superman. Everytime Superman hits the shield, his attack is automatically reflected back at him. I have argued that Juggs is able to hit Thor, who is also supposed to have superspeed. Although, people have argued with me that since Juggs has never ran at superspeeds himself, that everytime he hits a speedster, like in his countless fights with Thor, it is considered a fluke. Juggs' is supposed to be immune to physical damage. He has never been physically damaged in the Marvel universe, not even when he has gone up against the likes of Hulk and Thor. Juggernaut has come back undamaged from attacks that have driven Galactus away. The only known ways to stop him are through god-level magic and psychic assaults. Superman just doesn't have either.
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Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:30 pm
Unless Juggernaught can fly/teleport (which I'm fairly sure he can't), Superman wouldn't need to. Being able to relocate a person to a place where they are essentially incapacitated (such as leaving them on the surface of some featureless asteroid, etc.) is generally considered adequate to count as victory in a VS debate, unless I'm mistaken. Or, to put it another way "It's not about beating your opponent into unconsciousness, it's just about beating them."
Your point about him hitting speedsters is deffinetly valid, though. I'm not sure what said people were thinking, but while travel/movement speed often has a rough correlation to action/reaction speed, they are NOT the same thing. It's perfectly feesible that Jugernaught is able to move his arms allot faster (and coardinate his punches allot quicker) than he can move his entire body. And if he was hitting a top speed Thor, then it sounds like he IS doing that.
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Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:15 am
Deviedes Unless Juggernaught can fly/teleport (which I'm fairly sure he can't), Superman wouldn't need to. Being able to relocate a person to a place where they are essentially incapacitated (such as leaving them on the surface of some featureless asteroid, etc.) is generally considered adequate to count as victory in a VS debate, unless I'm mistaken. Or, to put it another way "It's not about beating your opponent into unconsciousness, it's just about beating them." Your point about him hitting speedsters is deffinetly valid, though. I'm not sure what said people were thinking, but while travel/movement speed often has a rough correlation to action/reaction speed, they are NOT the same thing. It's perfectly feesible that Jugernaught is able to move his arms allot faster (and coardinate his punches allot quicker) than he can move his entire body. And if he was hitting a top speed Thor, then it sounds like he IS doing that. Hitting someone that moves at Mach Speeds is way different than hitting someone that can move a multiple times lightspeed. Marvel Speedsters
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:42 pm
You would think the fight would go down a litle like this...
Superman flies in....
"Give it up, big red"
Puffs up his chest, gets all heroic looking......
"Alright tough guy..."
Juggernaut throws himself fulls speed into one massive punch.
Here's where the fight gets all fuzzed up.....
Assuming we go with pre de-powered Juggernaut, who MANHANDLED Thor and the Hulk, then I'd say Supes is in for a world of hurt because realistically (as close to realistic as we can come) Juggernaut's power is magical in nature. Superman's invulnerability shouldn't come into play, just as in a fight with Thor one swing of Mjolnir should kill him instantly. Juggernaut should crush his body in with the first punch, if the attack is inherently mystical, wich I believe it is.
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:57 am
Although Jugs is invulnerable and Superman is weak against magic I still say superman wins. He is faster and Stronger. Due to the fact that Superman can't damage Jugs and Jugs can't even stand up to Gladiator the fight wouldn't be much of a fight other than superman tossing Jugs around.
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:01 am
TheOtherSideOfThings Although Jugs is invulnerable and Superman is weak against magic I still say superman wins. He is faster and Stronger. Due to the fact that Superman can't damage Jugs and Jugs can't even stand up to Gladiator the fight wouldn't be much of a fight other than superman tossing Jugs around. And trust me, I would want nothing more than to have superman actually dead. But they built him up so much that he doesn't loose given the oddest and extreme circumstances.
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:55 pm
Right but in a VS. discussion we don't take that into consideration. Technically, if Jugg's fists are magical then Superman would die at the first punch (his skin has NO defense against magic) and it would be in character for him to let someone take the first swing...especially someone he doesn't know. Jugg's doesn't waste time so the first shot would almost certianly be Jugg's.
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:32 am
Jerhien Right but in a VS. discussion we don't take that into consideration. Technically, if Jugg's fists are magical then Superman would die at the first punch (his skin has NO defense against magic) and it would be in character for him to let someone take the first swing...especially someone he doesn't know. Jugg's doesn't waste time so the first shot would almost certianly be Jugg's. I disagree. Although Jugs has a magical defense he can't punch through superman. His fists are protected by magic, they aren't projecting magic. Now Jugs has shown alternate powers, ak( levitation, teleportation and used his shield to knock people around. But one hitting Superman is ridiculous. Has Shazzam one punched Superman out? Nope. Did Superman die when hit by his lighting bolt, which is magical. Nope. So superman is weak, not totally defenseless. And if the no magic defense played a part then the Hulk, who has no magic defense, would have holes in him. And the Hulk can take a punch from Jugs. Since superman is tougher than the hulk(as in can take a stronger punch) he then can take a punch from jugs. Some would agree that doomsday can stand up to the Juggernaut. Since they are very similar ak (don't need food, regenerate quickly, unstoppable) and Superman can hold off Doomsday he should be able to hold off Jugs. Doomsday is unstoppable and relentless. No talking, no mercy, two things which Juggernaut does do and have. Juggernaut also is cocky. He thinks he can one punch most people. He would one hit Superman and then start to walk away. Now I am not saying that superman would win in knock down fight. But superman is faster. he would win just by throwing him into space or dealing with jugs just as he did doomsday. Since this forum does deal with character stupidity or what they are expected to do, then superman would be able to defeat Jugs. Juggernaut is not stronger(in weight lifting), not faster, can't consistently fly, not enough experience in dealing with a character like Superman, and less intelligent. Juggernaut relying on his magic to defeat Superman is not enough to take down the man of steel.
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:56 am
Deviedes Unless Juggernaught can fly/teleport. It has been documented that he can. But this was rare. one of those look what I can do temporarily.
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:02 pm
Unfortunately the lack of magic resistance is NOT something that Hulk and Superman share. Hulk's invulnerability and regeneration are applicable against magical attacks and Superman's are NOT. Superman has been cut by the slightest contact with a magical weapon before, and a MAGIC field slamming into his chest with 100 tons of lifting power behind it should collapse his rib-cage pretty nicely. Remember, Invulnerability changes pretty drastically between characters. Shazaam's lightnig isn't necessarily magic in nature, because if it were it should flash-boil superman's blood. Thor's lightning should kill him instantly, as should any blow from Mjolnir. Hell if he played his classic tough guy fight opener the Black Knight should be able to cut him down pretty easily. It's not that ALL invulnerability fails against magic, because most of it doesn't....but Supes' does.
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:05 pm
Oh and when you consider a VS. Fight you have to consider how they're going to start fighting....I.E. in character. They have no knowledge of each other and they're not (heroes mostly) going to unload right off. Superman's breadth of powers and his speed wouldn't likely get to come into play because of his virtual refusal to start a fight.
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