Ramses and St. Peter

[Rennie`]

So I was browsing through the internet for anything Ancient Egypt when I came across this image:



For somebody who is KO this image has absolutely insulted me. I apologise to anybody here who is Christian but I am discusted to see a great Pharaoh, like Ramses II, giving offerings to a saint.

What are your views on this?


Heres the link to the site. The image is two-thirds the way down.  

[The heart of reality]

That image pisses me right off my brain.

I'm a non-practicing Christian, and I feel the same way. The heck (No offenses to any one) with Peter, he doesn't bug me, it's the fact that it's a fake that gets me. It seems off, so I think it's fake. Which is what annoys me.

 

[sjdfnkwnf]

I agree! I got nothing against religion; I think it is wonderful that some people can feel close to a divine power and have a belief of a life after death, much like the Ancient Egyptians when you think about it. But this image is insulting, not only because of the obvious cruel view of the Egyptians, but because it portrays a real life person doing something he never did or would have done in his lifetime.

That is insulting to Ramses' memory!  

[Nevira Shadowfire]

Ugh. I'm torn between laughing at or attacking its stupidity.

And undoubtedly, it is fake. St. Peter isn't even drawn in the usual Egyptian grid-style. And Ramses was long dead before St. Peter was even a twinkle in his parents' eyes. stare

I proclaim this sham...an epic fail! talk2hand  

[KeeperofShadows]

The site says that:

Quote:

'Latin monks made St. Peter a popular saint in some parts of Egypt; and in the temple of Asseboua, in Nubia, when the Christians plastered over the figure of one of the old gods, they painted in its place the Apostle Peter holding the key in his hand. They did not alter the rest of the sculpture; so that Ramses II. is there now seen presenting his offering to the Christian saint. '

Grr...

Did you see the one of the other pictures? 'Remains of a Christian church in the temple at Luxor' stressed  

[The Egyptian Dragon]

Whoever decided to create this... LET OSIRIS SEND HIM TO THE UNDERWORLD TO BE EATEN! evil

Once you have an Egyptian King offering things to a Christian saint, you have some serious issues because they both do not mix whatsoever.

This is one picture that should have these words stamped all over it: EPIC FAILURE.

 

[Rennie`]

KeeperofShadows

The site says that:

Quote:

'Latin monks made St. Peter a popular saint in some parts of Egypt; and in the temple of Asseboua, in Nubia, when the Christians plastered over the figure of one of the old gods, they painted in its place the Apostle Peter holding the key in his hand. They did not alter the rest of the sculpture; so that Ramses II. is there now seen presenting his offering to the Christian saint. '

Grr...

Did you see the one of the other pictures? 'Remains of a Christian church in the temple at Luxor' stressed

It made my blood boil!!!!!

There is a statue at the back of Karnak Temple, it had 3 people, 2 Gods and a Pharaoh (I can't remember who but it is most likely Ramses II) and the Christians carved both of the statues into the Christian Cross!!!  

[Neshumurru]

I have nothing against either religion, however, being that I was once a Born Again Christian, and I did just get kicked out of a catholic school, I know some-what of the history and yada-yada-yada.

It's obviously a fake, I could tell that from the drawing itself, and the fact that the ancient egyptian religion had mostly died out by the point in time when Peter was alive. I don't know the actual full truth behind that, but I know that by the time Christians we're even daring enough to go to places and talk to people, the jewish faith, and what remained of the Romans were the major religions in that area. The Christians we're to scared of being persicuted to really do to much until a few years after the death of Jesus.

If I am wrong in any of this I apologize.  

[Rennie`]

Neshumurru

I have nothing against either religion, however, being that I was once a Born Again Christian, and I did just get kicked out of a catholic school, I know some-what of the history and yada-yada-yada.

It's obviously a fake, I could tell that from the drawing itself, and the fact that the ancient egyptian religion had mostly died out by the point in time when Peter was alive. I don't know the actual full truth behind that, but I know that by the time Christians we're even daring enough to go to places and talk to people, the jewish faith, and what remained of the Romans were the major religions in that area. The Christians we're to scared of being persicuted to really do to much until a few years after the death of Jesus.

If I am wrong in any of this I apologize.

It's not just that, it is the fact that modern day Christians have done that! I don't know who St. Peter is but I know that Rameses was a great warrior, a great King and a generally nice man who loved his family.

Yeah it's not Egyptian, the cartouches above Rameses haven't even got hieroglyphics in them.  

[Neshumurru]

Your right, people from all times have done that. But look at history, there are even Egyptians who have carved out statues, and destroyed tombs etc.

And as for modern do you mean, like in the last 10-20 years, or like, since the 1500s. No matter what the date is, people are still ignorant, but in recent times things have changed. Maybe not a great deal, but people are changing, they are changing their ways which have literally been set in stone for upwards of 2,000 years.  

[bluerain202]

Rennie`

Neshumurru

I have nothing against either religion, however, being that I was once a Born Again Christian, and I did just get kicked out of a catholic school, I know some-what of the history and yada-yada-yada.

It's obviously a fake, I could tell that from the drawing itself, and the fact that the ancient egyptian religion had mostly died out by the point in time when Peter was alive. I don't know the actual full truth behind that, but I know that by the time Christians we're even daring enough to go to places and talk to people, the jewish faith, and what remained of the Romans were the major religions in that area. The Christians we're to scared of being persicuted to really do to much until a few years after the death of Jesus.

If I am wrong in any of this I apologize.

It's not just that, it is the fact that modern day Christians have done that! I don't know who St. Peter is but I know that Rameses was a great warrior, a great King and a generally nice man who loved his family.

Yeah it's not Egyptian, the cartouches above Rameses haven't even got hieroglyphics in them.

This image is probably from the Coptic Christians... really on one hand its not terribly offensive imo, it seems pretty logical. Peter was Jesus's main man, the guy who was supposed to take over after Jesus died or went away or whatever. Jesus is depicted as giving Peter the key to the door of heaven, I guess this is based off of that. Combining pagan and Chrisitan imagery was meant to segue their beliefs into Christianity.. but also assimilate them eventually... Actually though, the coptic church is pretty cool because it still uses alot of Egyptian imagery.. I don't know that much about it but I know they do use sistrums in their churches.
The last poster is correct: this has happened in all religious factions, although perhaps often in Christianity (but also has happened in other places... like how the basicila has been turned into something religious and Christian as opposed to a functional Roman building. A non-Christian example would be how Muslims have also turned what were originally Chrisitan churches into mosques. It is pretty much the same thing as turning a temple into a church... I mean it does seem maybe alittle bit better to alter it to be acceptable than to destroy it for being completely unacceptable... what do you think?
What is worse- Altering art to suit a different religious purpose or destorying art because it does not conform to religious beliefs?
(Obviously, both are bad XP)
I also don't know how modern the picture is since "conversion of pagans" is kind of an outdated practice.. from about the 2nd centuary CE
I'm nearly positive that this did not happen in any recent time... Egyptian artifacts I' sure are protected by the government.

Quote:

And undoubtedly, it is fake. St. Peter isn't even drawn in the usual Egyptian grid-style. And Ramses was long dead before St. Peter was even a twinkle in his parents' eyes.

True, St. Peter isn't drawn traditionally might be a good indicator of fake-ness.. but it also might be because of the Greek influence on Egypt(or maybe someone just copied two images together) but I think you're right on that. But, on that Ramses being dead and whatnot, because of the belief in souls I don't think it really matters.. in the Bible prophets from Jewish Scipture come back and talk to Jesus so >.> *sigh* religion makes nearly anything possible.  

[Shokai]

I really do not see why this image is so insulting. It is just an image.

Can anyone provide me with any reasons (starting with Ramses)?  

[King Robert Silvermyst]

Let's just say this: If you found a picture of Jesus Christ giving offerings to Lucifer, would you find that offensive? Generally, though it's not picture of good/evil, it is a picture which deems that christianity is superior to kemeticism. If anything I think the image would best serve if it were altered. Instead of having Ramses II offering gifts to St. Peter, I think that both Ramses II and Saint Peter should be offering each other gifts as a sign of acceptance, equality and peace.