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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:41 pm
"All that we see or seem, Is but a dream within a dream." *sniffles* I just beat Crisis Core. I don't think I've ever cried this much! It was just so sad. I decided to make what happened in the ending with Zack and Aeris, a different thread from the "Crisis Core" thread. Well, read the spoilers below if you wish.
As most of you know, Aeris sent Zack 89 letters. Zack received the 89th one due to the Angeal clone delivering it to him. Zack reads it and discovers four years have passed. After this, we see Tseng telling Cissnei:
"I want you to bring them back alive. You're going to save Zack's life... I have letters... to give him. 88 of them."
Cissnei: Yeah. I haven't even told him... my real name yet.
Now this just had me tearing up. Tseng was going to give Zack all of Aeris' letters! He made it so important, it shows a box of Aeris' letters on the desk waiting, marked "confidential".
Now, fast forward a bit. When Zack is facing the last three Soldiers, you are too weak to fight them. His last memories are of Aeris... The DMW starts spinning, and lands three Aeris pictures. Then, Zack has flashbacks of her. The last one is of her saying: "I'll be waiting".
Now this... Wow, it just broke my heart!
Moving right along, after Cloud and Zack have the most "egg cracking heart" moment, Zack tells Cloud to be his living legacy. Then, he says:
"If you see Aeris.... tell her... I said hi."
-sobs- Omg, it's just too sad to bear! DX *wipes eyes with a tissue*
At the very end Zack says,
"Do you think... I became a hero?"
And then the credits roll. -sniffle- How is this NOT confirming Zeris?! What more proof do Cleris fans need?! They need to play Crisis Core! AND PAY ATTENTION!
*sobs more*
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:18 pm
*tears* I would have probably cried too if I had played it. Though I cry a lot during games. XP
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:22 pm
"All that we see or seem, Is but a dream within a dream." Lol, I cry a lot during games too.
I cried when Angeals mother died for christs sakes. And you only talk to her for like a minute. x'D I cry over silly things. x]
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:34 pm
Tell me, since I haven't beaten the game yet, does Cloud say good night to Zax right before he leaves? When he hesitated and said that instead of goodbye my poor little emotions couldn't take it anymore. I had to put my psp down.
And don't feel bad about crying. I started crying when Zax read the letter and said "Wait for me" and that final battle. That was so hard for me, I was fighting so hard. No game has ever made me cry before, I knew this one would though.
I think the game was the developers pretty much saying, these are the canon couples, deal with it! I love the fact that they put Aerith at the end reacting like that. I always figured that she knew he died, she can speak to the planet, but was simply in a lot of denial. Easier to say the person you love is out there somewhere, maybe with another person. Instead of dead.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:14 pm
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Yes... Cloud does say good-night to Zack. Oh, Nomura is just too cruel, making this game so tragic! Zack had to see so many of his friends die/betray him and in the end, he never gets to return to his girlfriend! (Yes, I said girlfriend.)
Wow, Malee, thanks! I never thought about it that way before, about it being easier to say he's with another girl than saying he's dead.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:34 pm
*sigh* Every time I watch Last Order/play Crisis Core/ watch that scene in FFVII, I keep pulling for him to make it back to Aerith, even though I know he wont.
He was soooo close!
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:19 pm
Could Square make it anymore tragic? It's so painful that Zack never makes it to Midgar....
And I too never thought of Malee's point. xd It only reinforces her denial of his death.
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:10 pm
How are we suppose to believe Aeris is completely straightforward all the time again? Especially when CC proves once and for all that Aeris does what she does with Cloud because of Zack. Oh man... I'm just so happy this game has come out. It feels like SE was fed-up with the LTD so they finally decided to spell it out for everyone rather than keep up the act. Though in all honesty, it was spelled out before with Cloti. This just spells out Zeris that they hinted at in FFVII and AC.
XD
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:24 pm
I don't think CC proves Zeris
at all, only if you're
counting the 4-5 years
that takes place in CC.
Cloud and Aeris
don't even know each other yet.
so it can't close the case on the LTD
between Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa.
so yeah, CC is Zeris, sure,
but it's only a valid argument
if you're trying to say
CissneixZack is the true cannon couple,
or ZackxAnybody,
during the course of CC.
[[this place...
... kinda smells like Cloti.
kindly prove me wrong
in my assumption that y'all
like Zeris
because it leaves Cloti alone.]]
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:45 pm
Quote: I don't think CC proves Zeris at all, only if you're counting the 4-5 years that takes place in CC. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." "Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud in FFVII". This is an official quote, and I think that makes CC prove Zeris. Combining the moments of CC with this quote that came with the release of CC, I am led to believe that the canon pairings are Cloti and Zeris. Quote: Cloud and Aeris don't even know each other yet. so it can't close the case on the LTD between Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." That's true, they don't know each other yet. But if they did, what would happen? Zack would be in love with Aeris, and Aeris with Zack, so there would be no place for Cloud with Aeris. We can close the case due to the statement I just listed above. It proves that Aeris saw more of Zack in Cloud than she did of Cloud himself, which makes sense because she didn't know who the real Cloud was until she was already dead, and in the lifestream. Many official quotes prove that Cloud took Zack's persona, memories, actions etc... and that's what attracted Aeris. Also in Maiden, not only does Aeris say she loves Cloud BEFORE she sees Zack again, but she thinks of Cloud and then Zack is awakened. Why? Because the "Cloud" she fell in love with was not Cloud, but it was Cloud taking on a new persona that mostly revolved around Zack's personality. Aeris knew that Cloud was different, that there was something special about him. . . but she didn't know what. As much as it might be hard for Cleris fans to admit, Aeris did not know the real Cloud until she was already dead, and Aeris was in denial/had mixed feelings between Zack and Cloud. All of this can be proved, and will be if needed. Quote: so yeah, CC is Zeris, sure, but it's only a valid argument if you're trying to say CissneixZack is the true cannon couple, or ZackxAnybody, during the course of CC. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Um... No. It's a valid argument for this pairing in general, IMO. Zack showed no romantic interest in Cissnei, or anybody else. Unless you did the extra scene where you could make Zack say he loved Kunsel, which turned around into another Zeris proof anyway. Quote: [[this place... ... kinda smells like Cloti. kindly prove me wrong in my assumption that y'all like Zeris because it leaves Cloti alone.]] "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." That's kind of rude. No, not kind of. That offends me. Us "Cloti" have a smell now? rofl It's true, that I am a Cloti fan and have been for a very long time... but I did not start out as a Zeris fan. I always thought Zack deserved someone else until I read Maiden and the Ultimania and then finally, played CC. It's my belief PRESENTLY that Zeris and Cloti are canon. I'm trying to prove Zeris in this Guild, not Cloti. If YOU bring up Cloti, I will prove to you why I think it's canon if it goes along with proving Zeris is canon. Again, since I didn't support Zeris until just recently, how can you assume I like Zeris because it leaves Cloti alone? rofl
To be honest, I used to hate Aeris. I didn't want her anywhere NEAR my favorite character, which was Zack. But even when I disliked her, in Maiden/AC it seemed clear that she was to be with him. The Ultimania and Crisis Core just sealed the deal. So again, I don't support Zeris because it leaves my "precious Cloti" alone. I support it because I believe it's true, thank you very much.
I don't bust into the Cleris Guild and say "EWW IT REEKS OF CLERIS" so have some respect, honestly. IF you want to pick fights, leave. This is not the place to argue your nonsense, but rather, to enjoy the Zeris pairing.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:11 pm
Dragonia I don't think CC proves Zeris
at all, only if you're
counting the 4-5 years
that takes place in CC.
Cloud and Aeris
don't even know each other yet.
so it can't close the case on the LTD
between Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa.
so yeah, CC is Zeris, sure,
but it's only a valid argument
if you're trying to say
CissneixZack is the true cannon couple,
or ZackxAnybody,
during the course of CC.
[[this place...
... kinda smells like Cloti.
kindly prove me wrong
in my assumption that y'all
like Zeris
because it leaves Cloti alone.]]
Canon = What you are looking for here.
No, Cloud and Aerith do not know each other yet, but when you include Crisis Core and even, as much as it pains me to say it, Maiden, the love triangle takes on a whole new meaning. Especially from Aerith's point of view. Does it diminish the feelings Cloud may have had for her? No, of course not.
For me, I always viewed Zax as a lover of life and thus, a lover of people in general. This is not a romantic love, this is just a guy with a lot of love, passion and enjoyment when it comes to life. He takes Cloud (and two other random soldiers) out for dinner, offers to take Cissnei out for dinner (although rejected), even states he loves Kunsel (who is crazy stalker!) but his romantic feelings are for Aerith.
And I'm sorry you think this place feels like Cloud/Tifa. From what I have seen, there is very little discussion about Cloud/Tifa. Amazingly enough, people can have valid reasons for liking this couple that have nothing to do with Cloud and Tifa as a couple.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:13 pm
honestly, I think you're tryin'
ta pick the fights.
'arguing my nonsense,' indeed.
"Aerith's feelings for Zack
explain why she acts the way she
does around Cloud" is fine and dandy,
Zeris IS canon, but it's a canon
taken out of context for the LTD
because all the parties involved
didn't know each other
(primarily Cloud and Aeris).
who's to say that Aeris wouldn't
have fallen in love with Cloud
because he's Cloud (in CC)?
we don't know.
and what about her famous quote,
"I want to meet..... you"?
what was it about Cloud's attitude
that reminded her of Zack?
Cloud was an a*****e in FFVII!
there were some poses, gestures,
and, OH YEAH, 1st Class SOLDIER.
if you think Aeris fell in love
for those shallow reasons,
then that's sad! and terrible for Zeris!
about Cissnei...
... well, i'm not gonna get
into that one much.
however, Zack DID want to
take her out on a date
in one of the DMW sequences.
i personally thought they
were somewhat close.
he did entrust his parents to her.
but if you could please
be a lass and explain to me
how Maiden confirmed Zeris?
because it was like a stab to
the heart for me, really.
just because Aeris thought
about Cloud and Zack came,
doesn't necessarily mean what you said.
Cloud and Zack have a tight bond,
and Zack, who was so mindful
and protective of his good friend,
would naturally 'awaken' to someone
mentioning dear Cloud.
your comparison about
cleris and the cleris guild
is no where near what i
was talking about.
OF COURSE the cleris guild
reeks of cleris.
but this is a zeris guild,
and if it seems biased towards Cloti
(which smell like stars, by the way.
ha ha, i tried to make a reference.)
then i'm going to point it out.
i'm going to call out bias
be it cleris, cloti, zeris, fack,
or heaven forbid,
my second favorite barrifa.
(and that one's full of it D: )
and thanks for pointing out
a spelling goof;
now i'm more subconscious
about my English than before. D:
xD...
(*bolivian*)
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:22 pm
No offense Dragonia, but it appears that you are the one trying to pick a fight. You came into a clearly labeled Zax/Aerith guild and tried to pick apart a couple we enjoy. This is a place for fans to go and talk and enjoy this couple. If we need to go defend our reasonings, we can do so elsewhere.
If you feel this place reeks of Cloud/Tifa leave, do not stay, do not try to tear us apart, take your feelings and leave. If you like Cloud/Aerith that is great, kudos to you.
We do not need to prove your assumptions wrong, we do not need to justify our reasonings to someone who probably won't even listen to begin with. I've liked Cloud/Tifa for 10 years and Zax/Aerith for equally as long and I do not need to justify my reasonings to someone who is just looking to fight.
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:09 pm
Quote: honestly, I think you're tryin' ta pick the fights. 'arguing my nonsense,' indeed. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Nonsense pertaining to the fact that you said this place "smells of Cloti". I have no problem if you support ZackXAeris in the past, but it doesn't mean you have to be rude to others who have a different opinion. If I support that Zeris is true for the past and the present, why do you feel like you need to prove me wrong? This is a Guild about supporting Zeris whether it be past or present. :/ Quote: "Aerith's feelings for Zack explain why she acts the way she does around Cloud" is fine and dandy, Zeris IS canon, but it's a canon taken out of context for the LTD because all the parties involved didn't know each other (primarily Cloud and Aeris). "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." There IS NO LTD when it comes to Crisis Core. Not because it's "in the past" but because it shows the clear ZERIS canon. . . which continues to be explained in the CC Ultimania/Ultimania/Maiden etc. Quote: who's to say that Aeris wouldn't have fallen in love with Cloud because he's Cloud (in CC)? we don't know. and what about her famous quote, "I want to meet..... you"? "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Dear, if you don't know me well, I'll tell you- I am a girl that supports facts, not "what ifs". I can't say for sure that Aeris wouldn't have fallen for Cloud in CC if they met, but they didn't meet, and if it was meant to be then they would've met and it would've happened. Did it? No.
Aeris wants to meet Cloud? AMAZING. We've known this about her character for a long time. She's wanted to meet the real Cloud, but only found herself being reminded of Zack. After the lifestream scene happens, she then knows who the real Cloud is, but never admits to loving him more than Zack after that. She is now able to set apart his personality from Zack's, as well as feelings but even moreso, as Balthea has said many times, Aeris said she loved Cloud before she found out the truth about Zack. Aeris thought of Cloud, and then Zack appeared, and Aeris admitted there was a deep meaning behind that. Also, when Aeris describes who Cloud is, it fits Zack's description, and not Cloud's. Quote: what was it about Cloud's attitude that reminded her of Zack? Cloud was an a*****e in FFVII! there were some poses, gestures, and, OH YEAH, 1st Class SOLDIER. if you think Aeris fell in love for those shallow reasons, then that's sad! and terrible for Zeris! "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." rofl Not only was Cloud using the same weapon as Zack, the same limits, had the same basic hairstyle, actions (such as squats and striking poses), and saying quotes that Zack had said that even CLOUD had never heard of before, is why I think Aeris SAW ZACK. She seemed to be in denial about Zack in FFVII, and Cloud just kept reminding her of Zack. I didn't think she FELL IN LOVE for these reasons, but she was reminded of Zack and WHAT THEY HAD because of them. She did not know the real Cloud, she was only reminded of Zack. Quote: about Cissnei... ... well, i'm not gonna get into that one much. however, Zack DID want to take her out on a date in one of the DMW sequences. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Not true. He asked her to dinner. Just because you ask someone to dinner, doesn't mean it's a date. He never pressed dates on Cissnei, like he did with Aeris. I personally, saw Cissnei and Zack as friends, or brother/sister. Oh, and when he asked Cissnei to dinner, she wasn't able to go.
Cissnei actually invited Zack to see the play Loveless with her... I think he accepted or didn't say anything, I don't remember. ^^; Quote: i personally thought they were somewhat close. he did entrust his parents to her. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Are you sure you've played Crisis Core? O-O Who else is he supposed to entrust his parents to? Cissnei is sparing his life, and has been his friend through the whole situation... and is the only member of ShinRa that he currently is aware of, that doesn't want him dead. Also, Cissnei spoke to his parents earlier, and all Zack said was to tell his Mom he was alright. Quote: but if you could please be a lass and explain to me how Maiden confirmed Zeris? because it was like a stab to the heart for me, really. just because Aeris thought about Cloud and Zack came, doesn't necessarily mean what you said. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." 1.Aeris saying she loved Cloud more before she met Zack in the lifestream
2.Maiden stating Aeris' mind ran in circles
3.She thought of Cloud, and then Zack appeared.
4.When Zack appeared Aeris admitted it was due to a deeper meaning that she wasn't sure of.
5.When Aeris describes Cloud, his description fits Zack.
The only thing about Maiden that made me upset, was the way Aeris treated Zack... as if she didn't care he was there. Then again when I look at it, it seems it's her being defensive and relates to the quote about her mind running in circles. Quote: Cloud and Zack have a tight bond, and Zack, who was so mindful and protective of his good friend, would naturally 'awaken' to someone mentioning dear Cloud. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Really? Why didn't Zack awaken before, when Cloud was mentioned? When Aeris was specifically thinking about her feelings towards Cloud, Zack appeared. Quote: your comparison about cleris and the cleris guild is no where near what i was talking about. OF COURSE the cleris guild reeks of cleris. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." Heh, heh. And apparently this one doesn't reek of Zeris because I said that I thought Cloti was canon? When this Guild revolves around Zeris more than anything because this IS a Zeris Guild? Quote: but this is a zeris guild, and if it seems biased towards Cloti (which smell like stars, by the way. ha ha, i tried to make a reference.) then i'm going to point it out. "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." What Cloti bias has their been? Have you noticed not everyone in this Guild agrees with Cloti? :/
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:09 pm
Quote: The only thing about Maiden that made me upset, was the way Aeris treated Zack... as if she didn't care he was there. Then again when I look at it, it seems it's her being defensive and relates to the quote about her mind running in circles. I think it's obvious that Aeris treats Zack this way because Zack's just being kind of silly and she takes it the wrong way. What does this remind you of? Perhaps the way she takes things too seriously in CC? If my boyfriend decided to pull a line like that, I'd probably joke around with him. But Aeris is vulnerable. She has JUST found out that the man she was falling in love with turned out to be because of Zack, and when she turns to look at Zack, behold, he says something stupid like this and she takes it seriously. XP Either way, she does get lonely sometime between Madien and AC, since they are together then. Is it romantic? I think it's obvious, but that's just because the movie shows the parallel of couples, and shows Cloud that it's alright, Zack is there for her. *shrugs* My belief in Zeris is purely based on Zeris. I can prove Zeris without even mentioning Tifa's name if you really want. There's also ways to prove Cloti that don't mention Zack, though I'll admit proving that Cloud does in fact take on Zack's personality does wrap it up quite nicely. As co-owner of this guild I advise you not to be so offensive to us in the future. Do not accuse Lunar or Malee of starting fights when it is your rude comments that were made to drag out our anger and feelings. You accuse us of only believing in Zeris due to it "leaving Cloti alone", and challenged us in more than one way. We aren't here to debate, unless a thread is specifically made to that effect, and even then, it's to stay in that thread alone. You have ruined the careful balance our guild had so I suggest you smarten up, or get out. Rude comments towards members is very much against the rules, no matter what your personal feelings are. Cleris are very, very welcome in this guild, but they are not to cause trouble and start debates. You should be well aware that if you wanted to open discussion about people only believing in Zeris because of Cloti, you could have made a new thread, and posted your feelings there. Instead you decide to post these views in the, "Crisis Core: The Ultimate Zeris "Ending" and Beginning." thread? *shrugs* Either way, that isn't what we are here to do. We are here to celebrate this couple, past or present as Lunar said. If we want someone to play devil's advocate, we would have asked. Nuff said.
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