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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:04 pm
I can kinda understand when Cleris fans say that Aeris moved on after Zack 'left her,' and then she found Cloud. That is, I can understand their thinking, though I don't agree with it. But I don't get how these people claim she was never even attracted to him. That's just bogus.
And, for the ones who say Aeris moved on and went to Cloud, why couldn't it be said that Cloud moved on after Aeris died, and found a love in Tifa once more? These people have no logic. X_x
But Zeris definitely happened, whether they want to believe it or not. Some people are just insane.
(I'm mainly posting this because I feel bad for not posting much. XD)
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:40 pm
"I have in my hands the means, and in my heart, the will." Wow, you post a lot of insightful stuff here in the Zeris Guild. Looks like CCC is a true Zeris fan. Perhaps even more than Cloti?! > = D (Though, in the Cloti Guild our essays have covered like every subject possible already, lol)
Try not to refer to Cleris fans as these people please. But if you meant "these people" meaning people who have that ideal about Aeris never being attracted to Zack--- then A okay!
I agree. Most people who think Aeris didn't care about Zack at all, go by what happened in Maiden, which has been proven NOT canon and only "supervised' when written. Even if Maiden was canon, everything I saw in it was Aeris being in denial. Especially since she thought of Cloud and summoned Zack, and the book refers to Aeris' feelings as "running in circles".
I disagree heavily when some people say Cloud wanted to die for Aeris in AC. rolleyes
LTD= Long Term Denial~
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:52 pm
I try not to refer as Cleris fans in general disrespectfully. I was merely referring to the people who didn't know which way was up, I.E. the people who think Aeris never liked Zack. XD
I'm insightful? Yay
I think I like them the same. -shrug-
But I dont' know what to post on the Cloti guild because everything's been said, and I don't want to put meaningless spam. D:
Cloud didn't want to die for her. He just wanted to live in the past where everyone was alive and happy, instead of the present where he knew he couldn't control the outcome of what happened. Like, if Tifa or the kids were hurt, there was no way to stop it, but in his mind he could live as he wanted to. It was the only escape he could think of that wouldn't be a burden to everyone else. :3 -nod nod-
That's my opinion.
But seriously, even if Aeris fell for Cloud, why does that mean she didn't love Zack? You can love more than one person. Just because you love someone new doesn't mean you no longer love the one who is gone. And hanging on like that is only going to cause everyone grief.
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:58 pm
That argument pissed me off to no end. It was such a pain to hear so many delusional theories that have nothing to back it up except pure speculation. Cloud lost hope, yes, but to die just to be with Aeris? If I remember correctly, he was grieving over the fact that he could not save Aeris and because he contracted the stigma, it furthered his feelings of worthlessness. I don't recall Cloud ever going, "This is the end, I'm going to die and go to heaven to see Aeris again...I'm going to leave Tifa and the kids behind with no feelings of remorse or regret."
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:00 pm
Cloud, if anything, thought he was going to hell never to see anyone he cared about again because of his 'sins.' He probably thought he deserved to rot in hell after everything.
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:12 pm
"I have in my hands the means, and in my heart, the will." EXACTLY, CCC!!! <3
Not to mention that if he wanted to die, he would've wanted to see Zack too, not just Aeris.
Cloud left the family because he was afraid of ruining the HAPPINESS they gave to him. Not because of Aeris only. rolleyes
Some Cleris fans... fans in general even, don't understand that.
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:39 pm
And THAT was a quote from Ultimania too. 3nodding But anyway, I've noticed that we've become a lot more Cloti lately...(must be the stress....)
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:57 am
"I have in my hands the means, and in my heart, the will." Well, if some Cleris weren't bashing Cloti so much, my hidden rage wouldn't have been released bwahaha. Well, not hidden, but I usually don't get that ticked. rolleyes
A lot of them seem to be determined to prove Zack and Cissnei's love. It's funny. Making statements like
"Zack and Aeris seem like siblings. Buying her stuff? Brother and sister!"
rolleyes
Yeah. Like I'd trust a person that is obsessed with Cloud and Aeris and sees no other character, to know much about Zack.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:21 am
"Don't step on the flowers!"
Someone told me something last night that I think applies to this quite nicely. The more clear cut as to the truth a debate it, the stronger the opposition will fight. It makes logical sense I suppose, the more evidence one side has, the more the other will scramble.
The problem lies with too much personal interpretation. We SEE Zack and Aeris being a couple. We have direct quotes from the creators on the subject of their love for each other. Trying to 'prove' Zack has feelings for Cissinei is pulling something out of thin air. You have to look at the artistic piece, this one being a video game, and look at what the author was trying to emphasize. This piece is emphasizing Zack and Aeris, and did nothing to emphasize Zack or Cissinei having any romantic feelings for each other. Why can't two people be close without romance being needed?
Anyways, back on the original topic. I think the problem is that if they admit she did love him in some way that it strengthens the concept that her feelings were mixed and confused. Even though Aeris herself tells us she doesn't know everything, they want to believe she does, and that there's nothing in her mind but this true love for Cloud.
You are also right, there's not necessarily anything stopping you from saying, "Cloud loved Aeris, but he decided to move onto Tifa." However, then you are discrediting any romantic involvement between Cloud and Aeris in AC, and it also makes Cloud and Aeris not 'true love forever'.
It's a shame, but nice post. Good discussion topics. XD
EDIT: taking out what I said about the Cleris guild, for obvious reasons
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:46 pm
...........Oh wow....Zack and Aeris are like siblings....yeah.....it must be incest then since Zack likes to flirt with her. I hate it when people twist the facts so cruelly like that. It hurts! Siblings? Zack and Aeris love each other, the whole frickin' game proves it!
Anyways, that's a good point you make Balthea. If she really did love Zack, then the whole "she loved Cloud more than her first love" is really confusing. Then again, isn't The Maiden irrelevant since it's not credible? xd Without the novel's credit weighing the facts down then it emphasizes the fact that Aeris indeed sees Zack in Cloud so there shouldn't be any confusion.
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:34 pm
"I have in my hands the means, and in my heart, the will." If they want to believe FF_G's lies, they can go right on ahead. If they believe one person without hearing both sides, and really think that I'd back-stab someone, than I can see they clearly were never concerned about me and the truthiness of my words in the first place to even ask me if any of the things she's said about me are lies or not.
I hope that if they've heard about what happened in Devotion and why I left the Cleris Forums, FF_G's warped version of me
"Crying emo tears"
and
"Not having a life"
and
"Spreading my fake alliance bullshit"
isn't taken seriously by them. I truly want an alliance, but people like FF_G make it so damn hard. I'm really upset by being attacked by her, because I enjoyed posting in the Cleris Guilds as a friendly Cloti, and now members there feel I backstabbed them and that I'm just a troller.
=sigh= It's not fair, but I guess there's no use being bitter about it anymore. I just can't believe someone I once defended--- complimented on how "sweet" they were--- would resort to calling me names, and accusing me of being a "Cloti troll" bred off of "hate". >_>;
It's unfortunate what happened, but if Cleris fans want to believe it, so be it. It's obvious some of them aren't the people I thought they were, if they just believe anything they read.
Plus, it's unfair to them to bring drama outside of their Guild, into it.
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:08 pm
"Don't step on the flowers!"
You're right, as usual. XP
Maiden has, as we've said, conviently been forgotten by SE. It makes sense, since it's Zack and Aeris interaction completely contradicts what they show of them in CC, and things like dates, Hojo, ect. are also messed up.
Even so, as I've said, Maiden doesn't completely destroy the Zack and Aeris relationship. She is confused about Cloud, thinks she loves him, finds out the truth, and then seems simply single. Then, AC, we see the two being close and flirting. So, it seems kind of irrelivant that she tells him to go since she does at some point change her mind and want to hang out with him.
Maiden itself emphasizes that Aeris seems Zack in Cloud, over and over again. That line is cherry-picked completely out of context. Really, nothing more to say about that issue.
The game gives you the choice of affection, but in the end, Cloud is with Tifa. Whether you want to think he's moving on or just regaining himself, is up to you and the way you played the beginning of the game.
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:47 pm
It's okay Lunar, you still have us who care and love you when others won't. I find it really surprising how easily they turned on you though....it's painful. You were really genuine in that guild and avoided aggravating anyone and yet their blindness destroyed that relationship. *Hugs Lunar* I guess you can say they finally showed their true colors. There are those that claim to "accept Cloti's opinions" but are actually putting an act to appear intelligent, sweet and "non-rabid." In the end, they are all just a bunch of Cleris conformers. I suppose it can't be helped. They are human after all...It's sad that people can't share the same minds as us, those that are open and willing to look on both sides, all the same retaining their true selves. *Sighs* Sorry for the deep rant, but it's upsetting that something like this would happen.
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:53 pm
Balthea
"Don't step on the flowers!"
You're right, as usual. XP
Maiden has, as we've said, conviently been forgotten by SE. It makes sense, since it's Zack and Aeris interaction completely contradicts what they show of them in CC, and things like dates, Hojo, ect. are also messed up.
Even so, as I've said, Maiden doesn't completely destroy the Zack and Aeris relationship. She is confused about Cloud, thinks she loves him, finds out the truth, and then seems simply single. Then, AC, we see the two being close and flirting. So, it seems kind of irrelivant that she tells him to go since she does at some point change her mind and want to hang out with him.
Maiden itself emphasizes that Aeris seems Zack in Cloud, over and over again. That line is cherry-picked completely out of context. Really, nothing more to say about that issue.
The game gives you the choice of affection, but in the end, Cloud is with Tifa. Whether you want to think he's moving on or just regaining himself, is up to you and the way you played the beginning of the game.As usual? Naw. I'm pretty redundant if you ask me. True. Though The Maiden is pretty much ignored, it's not entirely wrong. Even now I still think the novel would still be a great part to the story.
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