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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:03 pm
It is such a frusterating and almost dehabilitating experience to try to explain yourself and the difference b/w "sex" and "gender" to someone and be regarded like a side show freak!
I could just be ranting but for those of us who are seeking
encouragement and support,
eloqence can take a back seat sometimes and I'm just gonna take the risk of sounding a little silly with that introduction
Well the short of it is, I've had this concern for a while now and am so sensitive about it that I've only ever verbally told one other person in a way-ward way about it. I know that the members of this guild are extremly supportive and encouraging
with everyone's issues but when one is out in the non-Gaian world, tasks seem much more daunting and what sounded good in one's head can not always be fleshed out. The fact is that for a long time now I've been harboring a very strong desire to physically change myself into something much more androgenous.
At first it was mostly about becoming more masculine but I was proceeding the wrong way about it and eventually sought out my true desires: to become neither gender at all. I may be thinking too idealisticaly
about this process but it is my heart's desire to become the hidden person inside me, my true identity I call Gabriel.
I have unsucessfully sought out non sergical means of breast tissue reduction like Alexia pills. And although this all sounds rather infantile and scatterbrained, how can I take steps to becoming Gabriel?
I am unconfident in myself because I still resemble a female more than a male and less than either one and can not help wondering if I'm a hypocrite in some way.
Everyone thinks it's a silly idea to feel ashamed to wear female clothes since I physically am a female. I just feel like crap and wonder how far I have really come if no one can see the
changes I know I've made.
Perhaps they are just too blinded by the 'sex traditions' to really look at me as who I'm trying to come into.
I've seen other threads expressing Androgne-related angst and centering a the community on one thread will help us more openly share the common struggles we are facing instead of making all these separated threads.
So androgyns unite! smile
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:16 am
I understand an identify with a ton of what you say.. I'm also female-born androgyn, and I've spent the past year exploring my gender, what I want to look like and how to best get my appearance to match who I am inside. It can be really frustering, especially when I often feel different about it on different days or even from minute to minute-- sometimes I want to come off more feminine, sometimes more masculine, and often I don't want people to be able to tell whether I am male or female... not for sake of confusing them, but simply because this is the state I'm usually most comfortable in. Then on top of battling yourself internally, you end of worrying about the reactions you will get from people... So many people fear what they don't understand, and lacking a physical sex they can label you with is often terrifying for them and therefore uncomfortable for you.
Anyways, I have to go to my physics class now, but I will absolutely be back and talk to you to see if we can help one another. As as a side note, it makes me a bit sad that no one often posts on the androgyn threads-- I made one several months ago as well, and it still remains blank. I really appreciate you taking the initiative and being brave enough to create this! heart
-Sabi
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:04 pm
Wow, thanks for posting back! I agree that the threads have signifigantly died down in traffiking. I would love to get something going here and perhaps there are others like us that may find there way to this thread and also be helped by our discussions. I believe this enviornment is one of the safest and most encouraging in Gaia.
Great to meet you!
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:36 pm
I'm a female-born androgyn as well. It's been a very frustrating process, but it's the most right thing I've felt so far. I don't want to go on T or anything, but does anyone have tips for looking less feminine?
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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:20 am
Whoa. xDDD This is so cool!! Welcome Kilnkun. biggrin Jeez, I had no idea there were more than a handful of us anywhere, let along several on Gaia AND in GLITS! =D
As to your question, I have a few tips (though I'm sure Chiaro has more information than me), and I will post what I know in the Topic as soon as I can. Thank you for coming by and posting. =]
<3 - Sabi
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:25 am
Thank you XD
Yeah I was surprised, I joined this guild when I joined Gaia, didn't check in for a while...
So this has been pretty cool. XD
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:40 am
My.. girlfriend is an androgyne.. There's a thread in the life issues thread I posted and one in here she posted, if you care to check them out. <;-;>
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:49 am
I am an androgyne. <33 and I love it, but my girlfriend is having a hard time coping, please visit her thread or my thread. We think you will enjoy them as well
heart I love my love as unconditionally as my love loves me. heart
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Metamorphosis Lycanthropy
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:11 pm
Wow, wow, wow! Yes welcome Metamorphosis Lycanthropy, Kilnkun, Messenger_Of_The_Moon and all others! I am as surprised as pleased to meet you all and similarily look forward to hearing more from you. My apologies for being away.
Kilnkun, you asked a question about looking less feminine. If I may ask, what have your life experiences been so far? We can give better advice if we have somewhere to start from and I can give advice on what works or not for me if I have an idea of where you're coming from smile
FrozenIntellect, let me know when you've posted in the Topic section or other and I can help add to it smile
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Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:15 pm
Well, I was raised in a very strictly religious family. Little girls wore dresses and had pink rooms, all that other crap.
I always liked wearing boy clothes and being mistaken for a boy. Always. Didn't work so well when my chest and hips filled out (uggggggh), and when I go home to visit the parents I have to look suitably girly and have on make up. I hate wearing make up, by the way, haaate. XD
Anyway, I tried hard to fit into society's definition of being a girl and girly for a long time even though it felt very wrong and I thought I always looked very strange in girls' clothing, particularly something that enhanced the EVAR HATED BOOBIES.
So I did my research, particularly when one of my guy friends came out as an MtF (so I guess one of my gal friends now), and the wheels started turning, and I wondered if I was the same way.
But that's the thing, I don't want to be hairy all over (I don't shave my legs but that's different), and I don't want a p***s, but I don't want boobs. I guess I want to be more masculine, as I feel more like a guy inside most of the time, which is scary and hard to come to grips with, but I'm a girl, too.
Right now I'm just wearing guy shirts (not very big ones, either...I need to buy bigger shirts but...poor!) and I'm still wearing girl jeans. I haven't come out to any of my friends about this, so it's a little hard to explain why I want to wear guy clothes. XD
Anyway, that's...basically my story. biggrin
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:41 am
It's not like you have to want every male and female trait (i.e. genitalia and the like) to be considered androgynous or any other gender which is neither male nor female. It varies with the individual. My lovie wants to have a p***s in addition to what shi already has. You also don't have to be hardcore masculine. The point of androgyny/the androgynous gender is that it's the one that falls somewhere between the two and isn't fully one or the other.
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Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:46 pm
I don't want to be too hardcore masculine, I still have girly things that I do, but I'd vastly prefer to wear guy clothes, it's what feels right. Same with chopping all of my hair off. (though that's partly because the sun has turned into God's Death-o-matic Ray and wants to destroy me gonk )
Edit: I think you misunderstood me talking about not being totally masculine. I was just saying that I don't feel like I'm totally a boy but I'm not totally a girl, either, that's how I figured things out. ...I need to learn how to proof read. XD
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:50 am
Kilnkun, sorry it's been a while. I'm sorry your childhood was filled with so much "traditional" nonsense about what you "should" be. I think my gender is similar to yours-- Most of the time I want to be more masculine without necessarily having the parts. Usually I'd prefer to have a flat chest and feel much more comfortable in male clothing... SO. Here's what I've done:
Clothing
The simplest thing to start with is clothing. Last summer when I got a little bit of money and freedom (got to start driving-- lame that I didn't get to do that until I was 18 ). I went to target and took my best gay-guy-friend. He was cool because he doesn't judge me; he just went for moral support. We went to target and I got my first pair of guys' jeans.. Haha, that was a glorious moment. <3 Since thing I've bought another pair of guys' jeans and many, many male polo's/button ups. Clothing, to me, is really cool because you change it on a whim. If you feel masculine in the morning, you can put on cargos and a polo, bind up, and at least on a temporary scale it feels great. Maybe that afternoon, you'd rather look more feminine, so you grab girls' jeans and a tshirt. It's so flexible. heart Anyhoo, you said it would be suspisious for you two start being male clothing? It actually probably would not. I do not know how you are built, but there is quite a bit of male clothing that fits feminine-style bodies. You can use these as transitioning clothing from female to male styles. Get male jeans that are tighter fit around the leg; these fit your legs the way female jeans do, but are much looser. Start wearing female button-ups and this will ease you into masculine shirts, etc. =]
Binding
This has also been an extremely important part of becoming more comfortable with myself and towards others. Again, I do not know your build, but starting off ace bandages work alright. Even though ace wraps really are rather ineffective in the long run, I found them important in understanding my body better. Plus, they are way cheaper than true FtM binding strips (Chiaroscuro has websites that can help you find good binding pads). If you are nervous about going out in public bound, do it in your room for a while. I started out by buying two wraps, one stretchy, normal athletic wrap and another one that sticks to itself (these tend to be more effective due to greater flexibility). The first few times, I only bound when my family was gone.. it felt exhiliarating to run around the house bound in a loose shirt! 4laugh After a while I started doing it a little in front of my family and eventually started doing it more in public. Mind you, all it was rather nerve-racking, but also terribly exciting. ^^
Hair
You mentioned cutting your hair off; it's amazing how much society relies on hair to determine the gender of a person. This has made the biggest difference in how often I'm mistaken for male. And I'm not necessarily saying it needs to be cut short-- simply some style that could be taken as male works.
I guess those are the three main things. I haven't tried T and don't plan on trying it anytime soon. Obviously surgery may help out, but that costs a ton and I'm not sure whether I really want surgery now or ever. Hope that helps. heart
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:16 pm
You've done a wonderful job Sabi at explaining, what I believe to be, the basics and general starting point for female-bodied androgens.
I appreciate your input while I've been having computer difficulties.
Likewise, sorry to all for not frequenting my own thread as often as I should have been. sweatdrop
Kilnkun, I hear where you're coming from.
You sound to be a little closer to the male side of the androgen spectrum much like myself.
"Androgen-ness" can be a very large umbrella for numerous ideas. If you are interested in taking your masculinity further, I would be very apt to discuss with you more of the societal and psychological implications I've discovered in/with my experiences of/with it.
I, for one, have completely switched over to male gender oriented clothing--even right down to my skinnies--but that is because I see myself as idealistically male inside. It's sort of an unofficially diagnosed gender identity issue boarding more closely on a trans issue.
Also, as FrozenIntellect mentioned, I do have a few very helpful resources that I can share with you on concerns such as binding. I myself also resent having breasts but my uncomfortability with them has lead me to gain numerous insights into the various levels of such issues. Perhaps my extreme examples can help you with your own retrospect proccess.
That also goes for anyone else who has an interest in discussing more specific fractions of the androgen life style smile
(My apologies for being so incredibly general)
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Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:42 am
Have you ever heard of Androgel? It's a gel that you put on your upper torso, deltoids, etc. every day. It contains a low dose of testosterone and androgens - giving a more androgynous appearance to females.
However, it is extremely expensive and insurance only covers it if you're legally a male. Androgel's website fails but this one is decent: http://www.gendertherapist.com/f-to-m-hormones.html
And this won't help your physical situation, but it has helped me: "My Gender Workbook" by Kate Bornstein. http://www.amazon.com/My-Gender-Workbook-Something-Entirely/dp/0415916739
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