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iStoleYurVamps
iStoleYurVamps
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:10 pm
In the member's religion thread, we got many times into ethics and morals. So, I think we need a thread for just that.
Some Topics:
Abortion
Sterilizing rapists
Gay Marriage/Civil Unions
Culling the population
Limited human breeding
Ethnic Rights
Civil Rights
Current stance on world politics and events (EX: Darfur, China, Tibet)
wahmbulance NOTICE: Not all of us will agree on things, and, most likely, a debate will start. I'm not saying we shouldn't do this, BUT, I will say that we must realize we share different views, and we must respect that. Follow both Gaia's ToS and the guild's. If it gets REALLY bad, Mods will deal with it.
With that, I hope we can, at the very least, express our views.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:34 pm
Sterilizing rapists = FOR.. well, depending on how it's done
I'm...Honestly, and seriously for that.... Actually, Lunch and I where discussing what our ideal civilization would be like.... let's just say our punishment for rapists was the most fantastic element of our perfect little world. rolleyes
It involves sterilization... in the most painful chop-offy of ways, if you get what I mean...
Anyyyyway...
I'm pro-life. I think there may be a few select small moments where abortion should be allowed, but otherwise, no. It's murder. We have no right to decide at what point a life becomes a life.... hey, if you got pregnant and didn't want to, well boo-hoo, its your problem now. Carry through with it, and have the kid. xP
Ooooh, politics are baaaaad Vamps... Anyway, umm...
You know our little war goin' on?
You know the people who think things can actually be solved peacefully?
Well I say we send this peace loving people off to Iraq and see what happens!
...When they get killed on camera for being infidels, we'll see who's right and who's wrong...
How does an extremist talk...?
Person 1: Hello. I would like... peace! Let's all get along.
Person 2: CONVERRRRTTTT TOOOO ISSSLLAAAAAAAAAAAAMMM.
Person 1: I'm sorry, but I'd rather-
Person 2: ...*in the vein of Achmed the Dead Terrorist* ....I KEEEELLLL YOOOOOUUUU!!!
... and that's how things are. There is no peace with these people, we have to kill them first. I'm not saying all these people are bad, not at all, I actually know a few people who are islamic... It saddens me that all these people are getting a big terrorist stamp on their heads... but seriously, that country has problems.
The extremists are it's problems... Well, that and the horrible treatment of women....
>_>
I'm not racist, like I said, the extremist and sickos only represent a portion of these people.... saying they're all bad is like saying.... It's like saying all goths worship satan: It's bullshit....
....but I see no dealing with radicalists....
War is just a part of the world, it's just the way things work. That's all....
*ducks out of thread*
Now, if you excuse me, I'd like to leave now before a debate breaks out...
and please... Can everyone keep a peace?
If any of you people choose to end friendships because of different beliefs, I'm afraid I'll have some necks to break.
Let's all openly share, but keep the love we have, 'kay?
May the HSG stick together like glue. wink
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:11 pm
Ethics and morals are human contructs. They only exist because we believe that they do.
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:59 pm
Those that stand for nothing will fall for everything.
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:58 pm
Stating that ethics and morals are human creations doesn't necessarily imply that a person doesn't stand for anything.
Nature does not have a moral or ethical code. Animals have instincts and, in a sense, feelings, but they don't have ethical or moral codes. The 'law' of the jungle isn't a true law code, we just phrase it like that to try and bring something strange within the grasp of human comprehension. Morals and ethics are unique to humanity.
I'm not sure if this means that I believe they are fully human constructs or not. At the same time I believe we create these things, I also believe there are objective truths. Perhaps in creating our moral and ethical constructs we as a race are striving for a perfect, objective, result? That's a debate for the philosophical realm.
In the end, what we have around us is most certainly human created. This doesn't mean though that there is nothing to stand for. Quite the opposite, I feel this means we have the responsibility and duty to search for that objectively perfect moral and ethical code. Whether anyone will ever get there, and whether humanity will recognize it if we find it, is a whole different matter.
I ask pardon in advance for any confusion the above causes. I blame it on my humanistic and spiritual sides trying to find agreement. rolleyes
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:31 am
ehh. I view these moral issues as more of a political thing than a religious thing. I'm not going to go very deep on my views and will just tell the gist of it:
Abortion - I've always been split on this. But...there have been 40 million abortions in the U.S. ever since the Court legalized it in 1973. Those numbers are even bigger than the Jewish holocaust or any holocaust for that matter. We're given a choice to commit first degree murder, and yet get away with it? And some of the situations that create reasons to have a baby aborted -- like the rape issues, I still think that a child is worthy of living even if that child was born from a rapist. I don't like the thought of a potential mother looking down at her potential child just because her child shared 'dirty blood'.
If I had a friend that chose to abort, I would tell her my reasons above, and that she should do it anyway and see if she feels any regret and consequences later on. uhh win-win situation, right? I got both my pro-lifes and pro-choices going on, lawlz. sweatdrop
Sterilizing rapists - huh? I never heard of this one before, so I won't comment on it.
...no wait. Why do heck should we even sterilize rapists? Let alone serial rapists? So they can rape some more!? Unless they've truly turn their back on raping...well, then I'm for sterilizing.
Gay Marriage/Civil Unions - moderate/centrist/don't care
Culling the population - when you meant population, uhh do you mean animals or humans? crying
Limited human breeding - I'll go with what China says. :B If a country becomes overpopulated, then I'm all for the 'one child per family' rule.
Ethnic Rights - I've always been for ethnic rights. I see no reason to hate on another person. Stereotypes are not an excuse. I grew in multicultural neighbourhoods, have friends from diverse backgrounds, and have traveled around in the world, and I see no reason to hate certain groups of people. Also, this site is enough for me to enforce my belief on ethnic rights. Those people focus way too much on the issues and judge people as a whole instead knowing/judging/perceiving etc. a person personally and individually. I guess I can kind of understand their ideals, because ever since I moved here to the United States, the education system was just blahh and the majority of the bad kids were black or Hispanic. I find some of the Hispanics to also be annoying, especially at places where things are sold cheap such as Wal-Mart, Mervyn's, etc. And although I also don't agree with the whole illegal immigration thing, I see no reason to hate. I have some friends that are black, Hispanic, mixed race, etc. and don't act like the stereotypes.
Nationalism is outdated anyway. The current trend right now is 'Globalism', and we need it all the more so. Nationalism was a concept that helped us deal with religious, ethnic, gender and historical differences. Globalism is the new concept, because soon everybody will have to be thinking of the whole world as global terrorism, global epidemics and global weather patterns require a global response.
^ also...I've been lurking that forum for way too long. *sigh* their nonsense sometimes really gets to me. I need to stop lurking on these types of forums.
Civil Rights - uhh isn't that the same as ethnic rights?
Current stance on world politics and events (EX: Darfur, China, Tibet)
Don't know, don't care, moderate, centrist, indecisive, and/or just don't really care.
I said that I wasn't going to delve deeper, but it looks like I did on certain topics, lol.
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:37 am
NoLifeKing66 Ethics and morals are human contructs. They only exist because we believe that they do. I'd like to ask if you recognize that many of the most common sets of ethics and morals end up furthering the goals of survival, reproduction, and evolution? Of course morals and ethics are human. But I believe that there is an objective "truth" that encompasses those goals, as well as making life(and each other) in general easier to deal with. Do any religion/set of philosophy have the full truth? Is one closer to the truth than the others? IMO, we don't have the logical/emotional machinery to objectively measure that. If we did, we'd already have a fully fleshed out moral calculus, usable in all situations to determine the correct method and goal of action to maximize positive outcome and minimize emotional and physical pain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_calculusI also ask you, NLK, if you believe morals are relative to one another? That is to say, no set of morals are closer to the truth than another, and as a consequence, no person has any ground on which to judge another. Sir_Catherine I [...] believe there are objective truths. [...]I feel this means we have the responsibility and duty to search for that objectively perfect moral and ethical code. Whether anyone will ever get there, and whether humanity will recognize it if we find it, is a whole different matter.
After having taken a number of sociology, philosophy, psychology, and economics(yes, that one's related too razz ) classes, much of what I believe is based in what Catherine said and I have expanded upon. Do I believe I am a "good" person? No, I do much to set back myself, the people near and dear to me, and to a small extent, society at large. Furthermore, I don't use my moral and ethical guidelines to determine my behavior; usually I just do what seems fun or pleasant. I contribute what I can to offset my deadweight, and I do feel "remorse" for the stupid/useless things I have done to myself and others.
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:14 pm
By sterilizing rapists I mean take away their reproductive organ. Cutting it off or preventing any form of pleasure.
They do it in some countries.
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iStoleYurVamps
iStoleYurVamps
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:46 pm
iStoleYurVamps By sterilizing rapists I mean take away their reproductive organ. Cutting it off or preventing any form of pleasure. They do it in some countries. It always makes me think of Rowen Atkinsons Warm Welcome skit... "...Male adulterers, could you just form a line infront of that small guillotine in the corner...?"(The french! Are you here? If you could just come down and join the germans, Thanku, I'm sure you'll have alot to talk about....)ANYWAY, yeah, It's true, and it makes alot of damn sense to me. It's what justice should be in this world. 3nodding ...and I'm serious right now, the joking above aside, I'm really serious in that belief.
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:06 am
iStoleYurVamps By sterilizing rapists I mean take away their reproductive organ. Cutting it off or preventing any form of pleasure. They do it in some countries. Unfortunately this one size fits all sort of punishment or legalization does not work. Walking into an abortion clinic due to a incident of rape, drug use are incest is debatable. What about being in a situation where the child can lead to the mothers death? How cruel is it to allow a strung out junkie who did irritable damage to her fetus to birth that child? Is that fair? Is that fair to the child? As for the sterilization issue. Not all rape is driven by a need to pleasure themselves. For those who do fall into that bracket; take there biological drive and who knows what kind of sick and demented things they will seek out. It might be easy to say to just take something away or not allow something. There are people who are out there that have been suffering before they ever reach a point of committing a crime. We do not have proper amount of institutions to solve these problems before they arrive. Families are having a harder time supporting themselves. Orphanages can not take every child. We live in a cruel world that is ill equipped for this harsh reality. Teachers, doctors, boyscout leaders, priests and law enforcement these are people we are told to trust. It all boils down to is we don't know what kind of childhood they had. We can't pretend to know or understand how they feel or think.
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:24 am
As for my beliefs, I am a cold heartless b!tch. I am not quite a misanthrope, but I am quite close. I have little to no sympathy for the human race; I think we are too numerous in quantity and desperately need to be trimmed down via Population Control and Abortion, and I think those that would heinously murder already existing individuals ought to be done away with via the Death Penalty. (I wouldn't mind maiming castrating rapists either.)
I am not, however, without concern for people's well-being in that I am supportive of Ethnic, Civil, and Human Rights for all who require it. I am not hopeful that this will ever happen though, as my signature suggests. I believe that we are an inherently destructive species that is only as cruel to others as we are toward each other, and I am not confident that we will ever completely get along with or be kind to one another. Some group of people will always be pushed down and denied their rights, for one reason or another. For this reason, I will not waste my time dreaming of a perfect Utopian world where everyone receives their fair share of Life, Liberty, Property, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Those are my beliefs in a nut shell. ninja
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:11 am
My stances:
Abortion: LEGALLEGALLEGAL. Until the actual birth, all it is is a bunch of cells living off of you. A literal parasite. If we absolutely MUST have a limit as to when you can't abort the fetus, it would be when the fetus could be birthed and survive on its own NATURALLY. Without the help of ANY medical assistance.
Sterilizing rapists: Tricky. But, scientific studies have shown countries with the 'rape= you w/o d**k' laws, rape is rare, and if it occurs at all, the punishment is sift. the tricky part is the cases that the woman/man says its rape, when, its not.
Gay Marriage/Civil Unions: FORITFORITFORIT. I see no reason why not.
Culling the population: Depends. Kill people who shouldn't be alive/have an ethnic cleansing, NO. Kill those who have committed crimes and get life scentences? YES. prisons are overcrowded anyways.
Limited human breeding: While I think ethnic cleaning is bad, preventing couples with hereditary diseases from having kinds in NEEDED these days. Look at all the new defects and whatnot cropping up because we chose to have kids THAT WE KNOW WILL SUFFER.
Ethnic Rights: I see no reason, morally, or scientifically why not.
Civil Rights
Current stance on world politics and events: Darfur needs MOAR COVERAGE. More people have there died then in the holocaust. China=shithole, I'm sorry. But, when you use the olympics to prove your 'good' and ignore the fact your nation's capital is kinda, oh idunno, ready to become unlivable. Tibet needs MOAR coverage as well.
Death w/ dignity: For it. I'd rather die when I want, not when my feeding tube runs dry.
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iStoleYurVamps
iStoleYurVamps
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-l- Unadulterated War -l-
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:44 pm
iStoleYurVamps By sterilizing rapists I mean take away their reproductive organ. Cutting it off or preventing any form of pleasure. They do it in some countries. A similar idea was to do a lobotomy. But it was discarded as being inhumane and dangerous. No action as such will be taken any time soon. And castration? That is inhumane. Yes raping is a terrible crime. Emotionally and physically damaging. But our rule is not that of a bible which is " An eye for an eye. " It may be in some countries. But those countries are looked down upon as being less than us. We hold a supposid standard. We incarcerate people for the smallest things that in other countries are dealt with in death. Stealing you lose a hand. So shoplifters would be with only one hand. And most of them are juvenile. They grow up and don't do it again. Drugs are dealt with at times with the death penalty. How many of our parents would be dead for dealing? There is always a bigger picture beyond the fact that a small thing is bad... A small thing that hurts one person and a community. Still... If we are more strict on that other things will have to intensify as well. And when the rules stricken. More people break them. And the people who conform can eventually lose their identity. Read 1984. Great novel. A place without crime that is really heard of. =]
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:27 am
Tatsuo Ishtaka And when the rules stricken. More people break them. And the people who conform can eventually lose their identity. Read 1984. Great novel. A place without crime that is really heard of. =]
I wouldn't advocate cutting off someone's hand but I imagine fewer teens would shoplift if they knew that, and not a monetary fine, was the punishment. I imagine far fewer parents would deal drugs if they knew they'd be killed rather than imprisoned. Punishments are meant to strike fear into a person, not to simply be a momentary hardship to pay off with the profits of one's crimes. sad
Then we run right into what Gorenza was saying about rehabilitation. Punishment should make people afraid to commit crime, but social programs should give those who would steal for their daily food another option. That leads into arguments about welfare and socialism (not communism). All these wonderful matters are tied together in one massive knot of 'civilization'.
*ahem* Pardon me, I see I took things rather off topic of my initial intent to post!
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Sir_Catherine Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:20 pm
It is truly unfortunate that people have the desire and or the need to commit crimes. I a firmly agree that much of these issues do not rely sole on the individual. The rules constraints pressures and obligations that others place upon us have a large effect on our needs and desires. Which pulls us right back into unreachable utopia societies.
We have come to some conclusion that
-jails don't work
-banishment near impossible
-torture is cruel
-brain washing is immoral
-And governmental social ethical and economical rehabilitation indescribably difficult.
Question if you had a chance to live in M. Night Shyamalan's "(The) Village', would you?
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Reply
