Welcome to Gaia! ::

Several times in the book one of the characters has said that killing Jagang would not stop the Order. Now I disagree with this quite strongly. Firstly we take into account Jagang's abilities. Without him controlling them the sisters of the light and the dark would be free to do whatever they wished. This would bolster the D'Haran forces as the Sisters of the Light would join up. This would also reduce the spell defensive abilities of the Order's army.

The Sisters of the Dark are sort of a wild card in this case as they could either go on a rampage and kill untold amounts of the Order for their mistreatment or they could attempt the seize control of the Order's army either of which would slow the Order down as in-fighting without Jagang's iron fist in control. Personally I believe the Dark Sisters would rampage until they were killed one by one or fled.

Next we take into account that without Jagang or Narev the Order would be without a leader. Admittedly some of the Brotherhood priests who worked under Narev could give some control but they were all insignificant in power and are not likely to be a major threat. We can also say that the priests are not likely to be as adaptive tactics wise as Jagang is, Jagang was an expert tactician and used the D'Haran's own strategies against them. So they would have no leader or a rather pathetic one. There is also the possibility that a leader without the gift or such could take control but it is unlikely when the Brotherhood and the Sisters of the Dark that such a leader would survive the vicious infighting inherent in the Orders day to day operation. We can also say that most of the Orders troops are relatively unintelligent brutes chosen for their strength rather than their intellectual abilities and as such would not be effective leaders anyway.

Without a tactician, spell-caster support or an effective leader the Order would quickly fall to the D'Haran's better trained, disciplined and supported forces.

We can also say that the ideals of the Order would last beyond Jagang but again i think this is unlikely. Jagang and Narev were the figureheads in developing the Order and all it stands for, with both of them dead the people such as those of Altur'Rang would rebel against the remainder of the Order's forces and make an attempt to fight for freedom.

So all in all I believe that if Jagang were killed the Order would collapse under its own hypocrisy and the D'Haran empire would be triumphant. If anyone agrees or or disagrees or sees a flaw in my argument I am happy to discuss it further

I agree that the Sisters of the Dark would eventually attempt to free the Keeper but i meant more in the immediate time they would probably kill the men who have raped them for the last 3 years.

And yeah I agree that they will probably have survived for a while but most people would see how places that have gone to freedom have prospered and eventually maybe over 10 or more years the Order would crumble. Or at least it would become small enough that they wouldn't be a serious threat to humanity

Here's s philosophical saying that I found in my random exploring the web: People can be killed but the Idea that they were standing for never will, for as long as there are people that have similar Ideals then that Idea will return no matter how hard you try to fight it.

Granted I Jangang and Narev were the major backbone of the operations I find the idea of that idea dying with the Order, as was stated in the books (I believe was stated in the books) the ideas of what the Order is, is completely and utterly breed into the person, if you even try to cry out in anger on it they they call you on the carpet for it and literately beat the living daylights out of you till you are completely in agreement for you. Richard would do this in the meetings but would quiet down so as not to bring up too much attention while he was with Nicci.

Now there's a reference that wasn't followed look at Nicci's background, she was a daughter of a well known Blacksmith who made great money making excellent armor and weapons, her mother was an Order follower. Nicci was more willing to be like her father than her mother, but her mother dragged Nicci with her to the market to give people bread, and told her that if she was going to be in a place of status she should help those that couldn't help themselves. While her father toiled to make money to feed his family, her mother would take ALL of it and spend on helping the people who "needed it". Note the Second Wizard's Rule: "The greatest harm can result from the best intentions." so this would make the people want the Order's ideas more because they didn't have to work hard to get what they wanted, because they were getting it from someone else.

Now while I think the ideas of the Order are a good idea live is a sacred thing no matter what form it comes in. But to restrict yourself in what you need so that someone else can live is fundamentally wrong because you have to be able to take care of yourself before you can even think about taking care of others. A good example is the Airplanes they tell you to put on your own mouth piece to breathe in emergencies before you to your children's. Why? Because, when your out cold who's going to take care of the kids or help you or them out? Granted it's not always like this but it's something that I found to be true.

So I'm voting no on the idea that the Order would fall if Jagang had been killed for the facts that were stated by others and a few that I pointed out myself.