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divineseraph

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:53 pm


Seriously? Really? Do any of you really believe this?

Pics or it didn't happen.

Yes, I am challenging you. If you are offended, it must be because you cannot prove any of this, or else you have nothing to fear. Show me a controlling of a ball of ice, or even a temperature change of any kind.

Seriously, first-hand accounts don't cut it. Because if they do, then I can just as easily be a dragon who can control all of fire. In fact, my eyeball is the sun, and I'm sitting on jupiter, which is indeed larger than the sun because I said so. I'm watching you, and I can smite you, or give you bad luck or some other unspecific, ambiguous malady. I can also change metals into babies and babies into chocolate, just with my mind. I once destroyed three whole cities by using too big of a psi-ball. Remember Atlantis? Troy? Saddom? That was me and my uber magix. Which is spelled with an X because that's why it's special and actually works.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:36 pm


Another idiot...

Your are just like someone who is blind from birth trying to ask people who can see to prove the existance of colors...

Since you are blind, you can not experiement colors so anything we say about it just can not be proven to you.

That is one way of seeing it..

Ofcourse some aspect of the things here could be proven in some way but most people can't show a direct change. The changes usualy are too under the curtain to be seen as a proof.

Atleast in my case I can't show directly to people in a tengible way what I can do.

If you really want a proof, you have to try for yourself.. I might have said you were blind, but I mostly mean you have your eyes closed.. if you don't try to open them yourself to see the colors, you'll probably never believe in colors.

Of course that is if you have the mental strenght to crush your idiotic thought that such a thing can't exist which block you from ever opening your eyes.

ChiyuriYami


divineseraph

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:27 am


ChiyuriYami
Another idiot...

Your are just like someone who is blind from birth trying to ask people who can see to prove the existance of colors...

Since you are blind, you can not experiement colors so anything we say about it just can not be proven to you.

That is one way of seeing it..

Ofcourse some aspect of the things here could be proven in some way but most people can't show a direct change. The changes usualy are too under the curtain to be seen as a proof.

Atleast in my case I can't show directly to people in a tengible way what I can do.

If you really want a proof, you have to try for yourself.. I might have said you were blind, but I mostly mean you have your eyes closed.. if you don't try to open them yourself to see the colors, you'll probably never believe in colors.

Of course that is if you have the mental strenght to crush your idiotic thought that such a thing can't exist which block you from ever opening your eyes.


That's a cop out, sorry.

Unless you'll take my word for it that I actually AM a dragon. Give me all your gaia gold or I will turn off the sun. I can do that, you know. Except I can't show you, give you an example, or give any evidence for my claims.

I want proof. Telling me to take a placebo and try really hard to believe in it won't make it work.

Edit- If you can't show me, then you can't do anything, now can you?

And you may be fooling yourself into thinking you can, by wishing you could until it "happens". I'm betting it's not happening, but you want it to so much, you're willing to pretend. It would explain why it's untestable, unprovable, and insignificant enough in scale to be impossible to detect.

For example, if I think I'm a sayan, I can focus really hard on my power level. Eventually, after no detectable change, I may start to push, my veins will pump, and I may grow warm from effort. I will consider this an increase in power since *gasp* something happened when I did something else! On the internet, I will claim that I got to a power level of 9001 and leaves flew around me because of it. I'll ignore that it may have been random chance that I had done it on a windy day in autumn.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:37 am


""If you can't show me, then you can't do anything,now can you?""

Then tell me.. if I move a large amount of energy into you to show how much of a control I have over spiritual energy.. will you be able to sense such a thing? Of course not (unless you actually are sensible to spiritual energy from birth) Even if I shove into the face of a blind person a rainbow of colors.. That person will not understand what I just did.. colors isn't something he/she can understand, notice, experience..

I can alter the weather but for it to work well I need atleast one week of preperation for a near 100% success rate (as long as I don't try getting the unusual like snow in summer for exemple)
Even if I turn out the weather I said.. most people, you for exemple, will just say it was luck or that there is a trick to it..

If I use the spiritual energy I have to affect in a very strong way your own body (need to hit a few place at about the same time while pouring my energy at these place.) Most people will just try to find a biological answer to what I just did.

If I try my usual luck alternation trick, since it's imperfect and that to begin with it's with luck.. most people will just say I'm just been lucky for getting the result I want 80% of the time when fliping a coin when it should be 50% of the time.

If I use my spiritual energy to increase my physical ability, most people will think of it as me not using my abilities to their maximum the first time.. ((Or in my case not notice the chance for I always use my spiritual energy at regular basis for such thing))

Even if I make Seal, most of them doesn't have a dirrect effect that can be notice. They are weak to begin with and can not go beyond my own abilities since I,m the maker. Even if some of the ones I created could maybe show some results.. People will just invent other reason as to why what I wanted is happening.

I can change how a soul is but most people can't really notice the change the moment I do it.. Throught they might notice over time how their personality change depending on what I tried doing.

There is more but it's starting to get more into specific stuff that are just branchs of what I just said over this. Even part of what I already said are branchs of each others.

ChiyuriYami


divineseraph

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:26 am


ChiyuriYami
""If you can't show me, then you can't do anything,now can you?""

Then tell me.. if I move a large amount of energy into you to show how much of a control I have over spiritual energy.. will you be able to sense such a thing? Of course not (unless you actually are sensible to spiritual energy from birth) Even if I shove into the face of a blind person a rainbow of colors.. That person will not understand what I just did.. colors isn't something he/she can understand, notice, experience..

I can alter the weather but for it to work well I need atleast one week of preperation for a near 100% success rate (as long as I don't try getting the unusual like snow in summer for exemple)
Even if I turn out the weather I said.. most people, you for exemple, will just say it was luck or that there is a trick to it..

If I use the spiritual energy I have to affect in a very strong way your own body (need to hit a few place at about the same time while pouring my energy at these place.) Most people will just try to find a biological answer to what I just did.

If I try my usual luck alternation trick, since it's imperfect and that to begin with it's with luck.. most people will just say I'm just been lucky for getting the result I want 80% of the time when fliping a coin when it should be 50% of the time.

If I use my spiritual energy to increase my physical ability, most people will think of it as me not using my abilities to their maximum the first time.. ((Or in my case not notice the chance for I always use my spiritual energy at regular basis for such thing))

Even if I make Seal, most of them doesn't have a dirrect effect that can be notice. They are weak to begin with and can not go beyond my own abilities since I,m the maker. Even if some of the ones I created could maybe show some results.. People will just invent other reason as to why what I wanted is happening.

I can change how a soul is but most people can't really notice the change the moment I do it.. Throught they might notice over time how their personality change depending on what I tried doing.

There is more but it's starting to get more into specific stuff that are just branchs of what I just said over this. Even part of what I already said are branchs of each others.


Again a cop out. The sun I will turn off is imperceptible. You will still see the yellow sky-sun, but mine will make you sad for all eternity in the imperceptible darkness of my soulsun!

You can alter the weather? I say bullshit. I say you're getting mildly lucky. "It will be sunny sometime next week!"- Chances are, it will be. If not "I must have done it wrong!". Sorry, it's BS.

Again, probability isn't perfect. a coinflip isn't exactly 50-50. Luck is imperceptible. Prove to me that out of 10,000 flips you get 80,000, to account for the laws of probability, and I will start to believe you. But 8/10 is nothing special unless it can be repeated many thousands of times with the same results. Again, this "proof" is bullshit.

Focusing is nothing special. It's called Ki, and is basically kinetic energy. It's been used in Karate for centuries. Not magic.

If it can't be noticed, you're not doing anything, you're just tricking yourself to think you are. It's because you REALLY want to think you can. So ANYTHING, even if it's minimal or nonexistent but imagined, is counted as evidence.

Change my personality. Make me agree with you then. Or, if that's "too hard", change me in any way. I've challenged many a "witch", never to be hit with plague or a fireball from the sky.

All of this is imperceptible or relies entirely on misleading chance. You're not doing anything.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:25 pm


I've posted pictures of spoonbending and at least one video of moving a psi wheel on here before. So have others. Look for old threads on such subjects. If you can't find them then let me know and I'll post the pics again. I don't know if the vid is still hosted though. I'm doing other things tonight so I'll check back tomorrow.

These things may be in the main forum and not in this subforum. Like I said, let me know if you can't find it.

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:17 am


I did a quick search and didn't find them. As for photography of a bent spoon, that proves nothing. Show me a video and I may be more inclined to believe you.
And as for the psi-wheel, if it is basically some guy waving his arms around and trying to imitate Naruto "chakras", that's not going to prove much either. He can SAY that moving his arms around in a circle lets him control the essence of fire, but if he can't actually control fire, he's full of s**t.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:14 pm


divineseraph
I did a quick search and didn't find them. As for photography of a bent spoon, that proves nothing. Show me a video and I may be more inclined to believe you.
And as for the psi-wheel, if it is basically some guy waving his arms around and trying to imitate Naruto "chakras", that's not going to prove much either. He can SAY that moving his arms around in a circle lets him control the essence of fire, but if he can't actually control fire, he's full of s**t.


No, a psi wheel is a little pin wheel device made of foil or paper balanced on a needle or pin or something. The idea is that you make it move with psychokinetic force. Some people put glass or something over the wheel to account for air currents or whatnot. I, personally, do not practice enough to be able to move it through the glass. I can exert a manner of control over it to make it change directions though.

Okay, the threads I've found are:

http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=11110315 This is the one with the tableware bending.

http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=11382381 This is a biocommunication experiment I did that kind of relates to psi I guess.

And here is the link to my video. I clicked it and everything seemed to work, but I'm on dial up so I didn't wait for it to load. I can only assume it's still hosted. www.shadedgreen.com/downloads/public/malice/Tkvideo.wmv


Just so you know though, asking for proof on the Internet is a pointless endeavor anyway. I'll be the first to tell you that anyone can do anything on the Internet. I'm not really out to prove anything to you, but you asked for pics so there they are (with exception of the biocommunication experiment, which I just think is neat).

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:40 am


The fork is a simple matter of using a tool to bend it into such a shape. I'm not going to believe a still image of a bent spoon.

The wheel is interesting, but looks more like either you were blowing on it, or it could just as easily be magnetics, such as when you can push a piece of paper on a desk without touching it. Which would also explain why you can't do it through glass.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:51 pm


divineseraph
The fork is a simple matter of using a tool to bend it into such a shape. I'm not going to believe a still image of a bent spoon.

The wheel is interesting, but looks more like either you were blowing on it, or it could just as easily be magnetics, such as when you can push a piece of paper on a desk without touching it. Which would also explain why you can't do it through glass.


I don't think magnetics would have anything to do with a piece of *aluminum* foil. There's the idea of it being some kind of convection current from my hands, but that wouldn't account for the measure of control and something like a convection current should be pretty easy to reproduce.

And like I said, I don't care if you believe it. I encourage you to try it yourself though. No amount of Internet proof will satisfy you because it's entirely too easy to fake things on the net. But seriously, try it. That's the only way you'll ever be satisfied.

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ChiyuriYami

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:44 am


divineseraph

Again a cop out. The sun I will turn off is imperceptible. You will still see the yellow sky-sun, but mine will make you sad for all eternity in the imperceptible darkness of my soulsun!


In this exemple, you said I would be sad.. Sadness usualy is something I can experience so if you really did that, I would experience it. If you say it's a different kind of sadness that I probably wouldn't be able to experience, then I have no way of saying what you did is true or not. From the beginning I gave up on common sense so I will not base myself on something as unsure as that to say what you said is not true. All I can do is accept it as a possiblity. Your logic to not believe things just because they can not be proven is rather a weird thing to have. Such a logic force one to not believe anything people say. If I say I can do something, then I must be lying.. if I say I can't do something, I must also be lying?
Or are you hypocrite and choose what to believe in and what not to believe in? Then why seek proof if you choose what is real and what isn't real??

divineseraph

You can alter the weather? I say bullshit. I say you're getting mildly lucky. "It will be sunny sometime next week!"- Chances are, it will be. If not "I must have done it wrong!". Sorry, it's BS.


Well in my case it's more like "I'll try and make it near cloudless on sunday with a light wind" Your exemple of what I would say look more like a prediction than an affirmation. I alter it.. not predic it.. But I guess it's rather usless to even explain the difference in the exemples. I can only place effect on what already is here. I can't do a very powerfull change in weather hence why I need to a few days of preperation to slowly change the different aspect of the weather to make it turn out like I want the day I want it.
There still is the possibility I'm quite lucky. Luck isn't a certain thing so maybe one day it will run out.. as long as that luck doesn't run out I don't really have to stop whatever I,m trying to do to make the weather change.

divineseraph

Again, probability isn't perfect. a coinflip isn't exactly 50-50. Luck is imperceptible. Prove to me that out of 10,000 flips you get 80,000, to account for the laws of probability, and I will start to believe you. But 8/10 is nothing special unless it can be repeated many thousands of times with the same results. Again, this "proof" is bullshit.


Internet proving such a thing.. it doesn't seem to be in my possiblity to prove it even if I can do it to someone over the internet. Just doing it and saying I got the result is porbably not enough to make you believe.. you,ll probably choose the to say I lied than choose to believe my writen words. If I take a picture of each coin or a video, you can also just say I faked the picture or the video..
If you want the proof, tell me how you want me to proove it.

Even I can not think of a way you can proove to me that you can walk. Every possible way I can think of that you could show me how you can walk while having to prove it over the internet can easily disregarded by many different excuse you also would use against any proof I give you..

So.. can you prove me you can walk?

divineseraph

Focusing is nothing special. It's called Ki, and is basically kinetic energy. It's been used in Karate for centuries. Not magic.


So you approved of the existance of Ki... why? Also, since I have a weak body, my ki is probably also weak so I use a different form of energy to do the same effect as ki.



divineseraph

If it can't be noticed, you're not doing anything, you're just tricking yourself to think you are. It's because you REALLY want to think you can. So ANYTHING, even if it's minimal or nonexistent but imagined, is counted as evidence.


Yet I get the feeling you would probably not say that about someone who is physicaly training to get stronger.. that person will say he/she notice some change in their strenght.. are you going to say they are just tricking themselves into believing that?
Or what about someone trying to increase their vocabulary.. are you going to disregard their thoughts that they have improved by saying they are just tricking themselves.

divineseraph

Change my personality. Make me agree with you then. Or, if that's "too hard", change me in any way. I've challenged many a "witch", never to be hit with plague or a fireball from the sky.


((( I used the word soul and keep using it but that just the name I use to describ something that exist in us.. it's possible that there is something else that trully is a soul and what I call a soul isn't that something. )))

Controlling the mind of someone and their thoughts isn't that easy. I don't have the capacity to enter someone else mind and change it as I want. I could try changing part of your personnality by changing your soul but the changes take time to take effect. Personnality reside in the mind and like I said I can't affect the mind easily. Souls can affect personnality and are much easier to affect than the mind. But the effect souls have on personnality are small and take time for the change to show in a clear way.
Also I'm not powerfull enough to do long distance change. Even more without knowing where to do the change...
I need to be in the presence of the target, more or less a few meters near, to be able to change the soul. I also require time and the person have ot move to a minimal. Soul alternation is also probably risky. I haven't noticed a fail so far but I get the feeling it could turn out horribly if I changed something that should not be changed into such a complicated structure and design that a soul is.

One more detail, I specialise in psionics.. I don't do magic so refering me to a witch is kind of annoying since i,m not one.

divineseraph

All of this is imperceptible or relies entirely on misleading chance. You're not doing anything.


I can not percept your existance or even your thought? you do not exxist then??
You'll probably get sick of the comparation but... it's the best one I can use to explain thing :
Colors don't rely on luck but someone blind can not perceive them.. Someone who is painting a wall from blue to red isn't doing anything or so the blind person say for that blind person do not understand he is blind and that colors might exist.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:07 pm


ChiyuriYami
divineseraph

Again a cop out. The sun I will turn off is imperceptible. You will still see the yellow sky-sun, but mine will make you sad for all eternity in the imperceptible darkness of my soulsun!


In this exemple, you said I would be sad.. Sadness usualy is something I can experience so if you really did that, I would experience it. If you say it's a different kind of sadness that I probably wouldn't be able to experience, then I have no way of saying what you did is true or not. From the beginning I gave up on common sense so I will not base myself on something as unsure as that to say what you said is not true. All I can do is accept it as a possiblity. Your logic to not believe things just because they can not be proven is rather a weird thing to have. Such a logic force one to not believe anything people say. If I say I can do something, then I must be lying.. if I say I can't do something, I must also be lying?
Or are you hypocrite and choose what to believe in and what not to believe in? Then why seek proof if you choose what is real and what isn't real??

divineseraph

You can alter the weather? I say bullshit. I say you're getting mildly lucky. "It will be sunny sometime next week!"- Chances are, it will be. If not "I must have done it wrong!". Sorry, it's BS.


Well in my case it's more like "I'll try and make it near cloudless on sunday with a light wind" Your exemple of what I would say look more like a prediction than an affirmation. I alter it.. not predic it.. But I guess it's rather usless to even explain the difference in the exemples. I can only place effect on what already is here. I can't do a very powerfull change in weather hence why I need to a few days of preperation to slowly change the different aspect of the weather to make it turn out like I want the day I want it.
There still is the possibility I'm quite lucky. Luck isn't a certain thing so maybe one day it will run out.. as long as that luck doesn't run out I don't really have to stop whatever I,m trying to do to make the weather change.

divineseraph

Again, probability isn't perfect. a coinflip isn't exactly 50-50. Luck is imperceptible. Prove to me that out of 10,000 flips you get 80,000, to account for the laws of probability, and I will start to believe you. But 8/10 is nothing special unless it can be repeated many thousands of times with the same results. Again, this "proof" is bullshit.


Internet proving such a thing.. it doesn't seem to be in my possiblity to prove it even if I can do it to someone over the internet. Just doing it and saying I got the result is porbably not enough to make you believe.. you,ll probably choose the to say I lied than choose to believe my writen words. If I take a picture of each coin or a video, you can also just say I faked the picture or the video..
If you want the proof, tell me how you want me to proove it.

Even I can not think of a way you can proove to me that you can walk. Every possible way I can think of that you could show me how you can walk while having to prove it over the internet can easily disregarded by many different excuse you also would use against any proof I give you..

So.. can you prove me you can walk?

divineseraph

Focusing is nothing special. It's called Ki, and is basically kinetic energy. It's been used in Karate for centuries. Not magic.


So you approved of the existance of Ki... why? Also, since I have a weak body, my ki is probably also weak so I use a different form of energy to do the same effect as ki.



divineseraph

If it can't be noticed, you're not doing anything, you're just tricking yourself to think you are. It's because you REALLY want to think you can. So ANYTHING, even if it's minimal or nonexistent but imagined, is counted as evidence.


Yet I get the feeling you would probably not say that about someone who is physicaly training to get stronger.. that person will say he/she notice some change in their strenght.. are you going to say they are just tricking themselves into believing that?
Or what about someone trying to increase their vocabulary.. are you going to disregard their thoughts that they have improved by saying they are just tricking themselves.

divineseraph

Change my personality. Make me agree with you then. Or, if that's "too hard", change me in any way. I've challenged many a "witch", never to be hit with plague or a fireball from the sky.


((( I used the word soul and keep using it but that just the name I use to describ something that exist in us.. it's possible that there is something else that trully is a soul and what I call a soul isn't that something. )))

Controlling the mind of someone and their thoughts isn't that easy. I don't have the capacity to enter someone else mind and change it as I want. I could try changing part of your personnality by changing your soul but the changes take time to take effect. Personnality reside in the mind and like I said I can't affect the mind easily. Souls can affect personnality and are much easier to affect than the mind. But the effect souls have on personnality are small and take time for the change to show in a clear way.
Also I'm not powerfull enough to do long distance change. Even more without knowing where to do the change...
I need to be in the presence of the target, more or less a few meters near, to be able to change the soul. I also require time and the person have ot move to a minimal. Soul alternation is also probably risky. I haven't noticed a fail so far but I get the feeling it could turn out horribly if I changed something that should not be changed into such a complicated structure and design that a soul is.

One more detail, I specialise in psionics.. I don't do magic so refering me to a witch is kind of annoying since i,m not one.

divineseraph

All of this is imperceptible or relies entirely on misleading chance. You're not doing anything.


I can not percept your existance or even your thought? you do not exxist then??
You'll probably get sick of the comparation but... it's the best one I can use to explain thing :
Colors don't rely on luck but someone blind can not perceive them.. Someone who is painting a wall from blue to red isn't doing anything or so the blind person say for that blind person do not understand he is blind and that colors might exist.


It's not just that there is no proof, but not even significant evidence. Or any evidence, except random, far-fetched claims. I believe what I do when there is evidence. You are yet to even show that. Again, first-hand accounts is not significant.

No, you just can't change it. You placebo yourself into thinking you have. If it changes, then "Zomg magix!". If not, well, you just did the "spell" wrong. Tell you what, I made it rain over there. I just cast the spell by farting loudly onto a houseplant. It may take two to three weeks to take effect. But if it rains, my spell worked and I am a powerful magician. If it hails, I must be a god.

No, make a video, without cutting it, of coin flips. I want at least 1000 flips. Not 8/10. I believe you can walk- It has been done before, there is evidence that walking is possible and even probable, especially in humans. there is no evidence of luck spells, aside from fallacious evidence which usually includes the preface of "luck can be good, bad or neutral". Which is an extreme cop out and proof of the falsity.

Ki is simply the use of kinetic energy, the transferal of force through conduction. Some people learn to use it better than others by maximizing the force exerted. The physical evidence is shown in brick-breaking. Or, if you are unlucky enough to be hit by a master, in addition to a break on the side you were hit, you will bruise on the other side. This happens in car wrecks too, where the kinetic force is very strong.

Ah, so you've already done this with a friend. Likely someone who believes that mumbo-jumbo to begin with, who is willing to fall into the placebo-affect for your sake and theirs. Much like those fools who fall to the ground and spasm when a Godless evangelical slaps them on the forehead.

Except it's supposed to be able to have an alteration of the physical world. Which is all well and good, except it doesn't do that. It doesn't do anything.

divineseraph


ChiyuriYami

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:01 pm


divineseraph

It's not just that there is no proof, but not even significant evidence. Or any evidence, except random, far-fetched claims. I believe what I do when there is evidence. You are yet to even show that. Again, first-hand accounts is not significant.

""I believe what I do when there is evidence"".. I really hate this sentence and I,ll show you how rediculus it can turn out..

From the very begining, there is no evidence this world exist.. There is no evidence all your senses tell you the truth.. The only way you can get evidence is throught the use of senses which are your way of understanding the world. You, who said you only believe in what you do when there is evidence, just approved that you don't believe in anything...

I never once believed I needed evidance for myself. I take the world as it come up to me. I volontairly blindly thrust into my senses to understand this world. If I couldn't believe in my senses, I would just be insane. Unable to understand anything of this world.. I could be hypocrite like you and choose what to believe and not to believe but that just idiocy.. it's contraticting and selfish.

divineseraph

No, you just can't change it. You placebo yourself into thinking you have. If it changes, then "Zomg magix!". If not, well, you just did the "spell" wrong. Tell you what, I made it rain over there. I just cast the spell by farting loudly onto a houseplant. It may take two to three weeks to take effect. But if it rains, my spell worked and I am a powerful magician. If it hails, I must be a god.

You seem to dislike that I say things like they are facts but... I might tell you now that you are doing the same thing. Without any proof you still take it as a fact that i must "placebo" myself into believing.

Then I guess you don't mind I take your logic and just say you placebo yourself into thinking such thing is impossible?

divineseraph

No, make a video, without cutting it, of coin flips. I want at least 1000 flips. Not 8/10. I believe you can walk- It has been done before, there is evidence that walking is possible and even probable, especially in humans. there is no evidence of luck spells, aside from fallacious evidence which usually includes the preface of "luck can be good, bad or neutral". Which is an extreme cop out and proof of the falsity.

Unless you are somesort of easily trickeble person or just testing me, I must atleast make something sure. Faking a video, a coin flip, or even remake a video until it fufil the desire can be done... From the begining such proof don't work over the internet. Maybe you didn't think of such thing when you posted..
Following up what you said, I don't believe you can walk.
I just take it as a possibility that you can. Until my senses tell me You can walk (nor not walk), I can only hold into an unsure possibility of such thing. I never believe that a majority of people serve as a good exemple. That most people can walk doesn't mean I should think anyone can.
If the majority really counted... then why was the earth not flat in the past when it was what most people believed in?

divineseraph

Ah, so you've already done this with a friend. Likely someone who believes that mumbo-jumbo to begin with, who is willing to fall into the placebo-affect for your sake and theirs. Much like those fools who fall to the ground and spasm when a Godless evangelical slaps them on the forehead.


Actually in the begining of my experience in working with souls, I first tried studying the souls of other and their effect. For that I "borrowed" without the consern of some friend part of their soul. I only have one RL friend who know of my experiences and ability. and the person I took the peice of souls from don't know.. (or atleast I didn't tell them myself.. it's possible that they might figure it out, the possibility is low throught))
Before that I had removed part of my own for a really long period of time(It was an uncounsious action that I became more conscious of it over time)). I noticed a turn out of my personnality toward the kind of personnality they had while just been in contact with the peice of soul I borrowed. I also noticed something that had happened to me before quickly happening to them a few weeks after I removed part of their soul.

Like I who had lost a lot of personnality trait for over 2 years, they also started to lose part of their own personnality ever since, I remember some other people totaly unrelated asking those person how they were feeling and why they looked so down and different. Things returned to normal a day after I returned the peice of soul to their true owner.
There is still the possibility that each and everyone of them where having difficult times all at the same time explaining why they looked less like themselves but... if it trully is a very but very strong concidence then how unlucky of me to have misinterpreted something I shouldn't have. My senses were telling me, showing me too many different aspect that I might have been the one who did that. I just take in the interpretation of reality throught my senses.

I continued my experience with artificial souls I created so to not burden the people around me more than I already had. ((I said artificial souls but those were quite far from a real one.. they were just mimicing the effect souls should have on people))

So far I only tried once a real soul alternation on someone and it was on the person that know about what I do. I had to atleast ask her permission before that since the failure rate seem high and dangerous. It didn't turn out wrong and worked more or less how I wanted it. While the presummed side effect did show up, what I mostly tried to do failed and over time I understand where I was wrong in my theory.

I think I kind of wrote a little too much but I,ll let it as it is.


divineseraph

Except it's supposed to be able to have an alteration of the physical world. Which is all well and good, except it doesn't do that. It doesn't do anything.


The alternation it does in a physical way are limited to very small things. it need to be accumulated a lot before actually showing.

Weather alternation: Just that by itself is a physical change that take accumulation of different small changes to produce the desired weather. Of course in that case you just ignore such a possible change because of the possibility it just out good luck that it happen as wanted.

Luck alternation: By itself it ain't a physical change but a change in a concept that turn out to have a physical effect. Again you just say it's luck.. which is true.. changing luck is also about luck.. it's quite hard to explain the possiblities of how luck alternation work.

Soul alternation: It can change the personnality of someone overtime but this ain't a very strong physical change and it could also just be a turn out of different factors.


In a trial where you as the judge choose to ignore some plead for whatever reason, you just keep the plead you think of and act as if none of the ones you ignored even exist..
So "ofcourse" none of my alternation have an effect in the physical... you just ignored all abilities to begin with so there is none you haven't ignored that stays to tell they do an physical change..
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:34 am


ChiyuriYami
divineseraph

It's not just that there is no proof, but not even significant evidence. Or any evidence, except random, far-fetched claims. I believe what I do when there is evidence. You are yet to even show that. Again, first-hand accounts is not significant.

""I believe what I do when there is evidence"".. I really hate this sentence and I,ll show you how rediculus it can turn out..

From the very begining, there is no evidence this world exist.. There is no evidence all your senses tell you the truth.. The only way you can get evidence is throught the use of senses which are your way of understanding the world. You, who said you only believe in what you do when there is evidence, just approved that you don't believe in anything...

I never once believed I needed evidance for myself. I take the world as it come up to me. I volontairly blindly thrust into my senses to understand this world. If I couldn't believe in my senses, I would just be insane. Unable to understand anything of this world.. I could be hypocrite like you and choose what to believe and not to believe but that just idiocy.. it's contraticting and selfish.

divineseraph

No, you just can't change it. You placebo yourself into thinking you have. If it changes, then "Zomg magix!". If not, well, you just did the "spell" wrong. Tell you what, I made it rain over there. I just cast the spell by farting loudly onto a houseplant. It may take two to three weeks to take effect. But if it rains, my spell worked and I am a powerful magician. If it hails, I must be a god.

You seem to dislike that I say things like they are facts but... I might tell you now that you are doing the same thing. Without any proof you still take it as a fact that i must "placebo" myself into believing.

Then I guess you don't mind I take your logic and just say you placebo yourself into thinking such thing is impossible?

divineseraph

No, make a video, without cutting it, of coin flips. I want at least 1000 flips. Not 8/10. I believe you can walk- It has been done before, there is evidence that walking is possible and even probable, especially in humans. there is no evidence of luck spells, aside from fallacious evidence which usually includes the preface of "luck can be good, bad or neutral". Which is an extreme cop out and proof of the falsity.

Unless you are somesort of easily trickeble person or just testing me, I must atleast make something sure. Faking a video, a coin flip, or even remake a video until it fufil the desire can be done... From the begining such proof don't work over the internet. Maybe you didn't think of such thing when you posted..
Following up what you said, I don't believe you can walk.
I just take it as a possibility that you can. Until my senses tell me You can walk (nor not walk), I can only hold into an unsure possibility of such thing. I never believe that a majority of people serve as a good exemple. That most people can walk doesn't mean I should think anyone can.
If the majority really counted... then why was the earth not flat in the past when it was what most people believed in?

divineseraph

Ah, so you've already done this with a friend. Likely someone who believes that mumbo-jumbo to begin with, who is willing to fall into the placebo-affect for your sake and theirs. Much like those fools who fall to the ground and spasm when a Godless evangelical slaps them on the forehead.


Actually in the begining of my experience in working with souls, I first tried studying the souls of other and their effect. For that I "borrowed" without the consern of some friend part of their soul. I only have one RL friend who know of my experiences and ability. and the person I took the peice of souls from don't know.. (or atleast I didn't tell them myself.. it's possible that they might figure it out, the possibility is low throught))
Before that I had removed part of my own for a really long period of time(It was an uncounsious action that I became more conscious of it over time)). I noticed a turn out of my personnality toward the kind of personnality they had while just been in contact with the peice of soul I borrowed. I also noticed something that had happened to me before quickly happening to them a few weeks after I removed part of their soul.

Like I who had lost a lot of personnality trait for over 2 years, they also started to lose part of their own personnality ever since, I remember some other people totaly unrelated asking those person how they were feeling and why they looked so down and different. Things returned to normal a day after I returned the peice of soul to their true owner.
There is still the possibility that each and everyone of them where having difficult times all at the same time explaining why they looked less like themselves but... if it trully is a very but very strong concidence then how unlucky of me to have misinterpreted something I shouldn't have. My senses were telling me, showing me too many different aspect that I might have been the one who did that. I just take in the interpretation of reality throught my senses.

I continued my experience with artificial souls I created so to not burden the people around me more than I already had. ((I said artificial souls but those were quite far from a real one.. they were just mimicing the effect souls should have on people))

So far I only tried once a real soul alternation on someone and it was on the person that know about what I do. I had to atleast ask her permission before that since the failure rate seem high and dangerous. It didn't turn out wrong and worked more or less how I wanted it. While the presummed side effect did show up, what I mostly tried to do failed and over time I understand where I was wrong in my theory.

I think I kind of wrote a little too much but I,ll let it as it is.


divineseraph

Except it's supposed to be able to have an alteration of the physical world. Which is all well and good, except it doesn't do that. It doesn't do anything.


The alternation it does in a physical way are limited to very small things. it need to be accumulated a lot before actually showing.

Weather alternation: Just that by itself is a physical change that take accumulation of different small changes to produce the desired weather. Of course in that case you just ignore such a possible change because of the possibility it just out good luck that it happen as wanted.

Luck alternation: By itself it ain't a physical change but a change in a concept that turn out to have a physical effect. Again you just say it's luck.. which is true.. changing luck is also about luck.. it's quite hard to explain the possiblities of how luck alternation work.

Soul alternation: It can change the personnality of someone overtime but this ain't a very strong physical change and it could also just be a turn out of different factors.


In a trial where you as the judge choose to ignore some plead for whatever reason, you just keep the plead you think of and act as if none of the ones you ignored even exist..
So "ofcourse" none of my alternation have an effect in the physical... you just ignored all abilities to begin with so there is none you haven't ignored that stays to tell they do an physical change..


There is a difference between believing things that can be perceived, with significant evidence that they do exist, and randomly believing EVERYTHING you're told. The difference is this- Assuming that the world is an illusion under which the senses are lying to us about everything, then I have evidence from the sources given. I have evidence that, at least in the illusion, certain rules apply. Yours don't even hold up in this illusion-world with substantial evidence.

And if you truly believe everything, I have just turned off the soulsun. Wallow in despair.

I'm using evidence that human beings don't have the capacity to change the weather. It's based on induction, and millions of years of evolution with only a handful claiming to have the ability, and all of that evidence is largely circumstantial and luck-based anyway.

But that's just it- Walking has been done before. Weather changing? Nope. No evidence that it CAN be done. In fact, much of the evidence says it CAN'T be done.

Again, all luck and placebo. If we ever meet, you can try your mumbo-jumbo on me. I assure you, I will remain quite unchanged. Unless it requires an open attitude, as some "magickckcxs" or however many letters they're tacking on now, do. Then that is just more evidence of placebo affect.

divineseraph


ChiyuriYami

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:59 pm


divineseraph
There is a difference between believing things that can be perceived, with significant evidence that they do exist, and randomly believing EVERYTHING you're told. The difference is this- Assuming that the world is an illusion under which the senses are lying to us about everything, then I have evidence from the sources given. I have evidence that, at least in the illusion, certain rules apply. Yours don't even hold up in this illusion-world with substantial evidence.


Just like that.. what rules are you talking about and in what do they make what I said impossible? So far in all the rules I ever understood of reality, none come to contractic anything I did..


divineseraph
And if you truly believe everything, I have just turned off the soulsun. Wallow in despair.


Like I said.. I only take it as a possibility. I do not believe or disbelieve your soulsun thing. So far I ain't feeling despair so I take it into acount it might take time for it to have effect on me, or that I am resistant to it. or other kind of possible turn out since I lack the information to confim or contractic these possibilities.

divineseraph
I'm using evidence that human beings don't have the capacity to change the weather. It's based on induction, and millions of years of evolution with only a handful claiming to have the ability, and all of that evidence is largely circumstantial and luck-based anyway.


"evidance that human beings don't have the capacity to change the weather"... just like that.. can you even give me such an evidance, or atleast try to explain it if it can not be exposed over the internet.

People believe the world was flat a long time ago for many many years and only a few did believe it was a sphere... Now which one was right.. the majority or the minority of only a few little people compared to almost a full world? ((Taking into acount that the earth really is a sphere))

Your existance itself can be quite circumstantial and luck-based... Am I ignoring your existance for that kind of reason? You might be a bot, you might be an allusination.. or a computer virus for all I know.


divineseraph
But that's just it- Walking has been done before. Weather changing? Nope. No evidence that it CAN be done. In fact, much of the evidence says it CAN'T be done.


Yet you still can't prove to me you can walk? If it is such an easy thing and that most people can do it. For all I know you might have leg paralizy or even have lost both of your legs. That possibility do make it so that an human can't walk. ((Here I am just trying to use your logic of wanting proof to believe in something.. I couldn't care much if you can walk or not.. just trying to make you see how wrong it can be))

Also where is it said that "Weather changing haven't been done before"
ok maybe this question isn't very well formed.. anyone can just come in and say it haven't, you just did yourself. I mean that like there is no accepted proof of weather changing, there haven't been any accepted proof that it can not be done yet either (well to my knowledge there isn't any yet).

divineseraph
Again, all luck and placebo. If we ever meet, you can try your mumbo-jumbo on me. I assure you, I will remain quite unchanged. Unless it requires an open attitude, as some "magickckcxs" or however many letters they're tacking on now, do. Then that is just more evidence of placebo affect.


For soul alternation I don't think it require much open attitude.. The soul can be toyed with easily. I removed peice of them from people who didn't even know so been open minded or not doesn't have much of a difference I think.

Like you said it could all be luck and placebo but... it also can be something else. Under what reason would it "obviously" be the fault of luck?

The people I removed peice of their soul from didn't know so no placebo can take place in their case.. The only one I changed the proprieties of her soul did know what I was trying to do but I don't remember telling her the side effect. She is good enough to maybe have guessed those side effects herself but in the case she didn't do, no placebo effect here either could have happened.

While placebo might be present in the case of the only soul alternation I did, there is probably no evidance of placebo effect on the other ones.
or maybe the placebo effect was on me, forcing me to hear other people notice how they looked down and different and notice such change myself.. Quite a powerfull placebo by itself if such thing did happen..

Maybe you are the one that have a placebo on himself to ignore things that look different then the reality you see..

It's all a matter of probabilities.
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