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lfinnl
Captain

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:45 pm


Evening Folks!

About a week ago, I sent a message to Fin, Gaia's CEO. As it turns out, the message left my outbox, but never got replied to. Of course, this only served to anger me more, but I figured I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt. So I resent the message, and it looked like this. Some of you may remember it from the guild invite- I'm a lazy b*****d, and thought it sounded good. But there's some new stuff in there, for those who have seen parts of it before. So, Let's get on with it.

lfinnl Wrote:
Dear Sir: I'm resending in hopes of finding some shred of humanity behind the pixelated avatar representing Gaia's CEO.


In recent days, months, and years, Gaia has changed quite a lot. Though I'm surely not the oldest member of Gaia, I remember days when the site wasn't at all like it is now.


I remember a time when Monthly Collectibles were bought through what were called "donations". I remember a time when they were the best items available. I remember a time when there was no such thing as an evolving item, and no aspect of the site was considered "premium", meant mostly for those users willing to pay real money.


I remember a time when advertisements didn't leap out onto the page, blasting thier message to your unwilling ears. A time when there were no shameless promotions that had little or nothing to do with the site's basic premise, and there was some level of integrity to each decision that was made regarding the site's future.


I completely respect your authority over the world of Gaia. I understand that this site, like any successful business, must do what it can to ensure its financial security. I also understand that this isn't always an easy task.


I also realize, though, that I'm not the only user that feels this way. I represent, I would like to think, a growing movement among the most dedicated of Gaia's users. We've seen this site's originality, integrity, and most of all, character, sold to the highest bidder.


I know you're aware of this movement. There have been several threads in the Site Feedback forum that must have captured your attention, if at least for a few moments. I would like to hear back from you regarding the issues that have been plauging my (and many other users') opinions of this site.

It is up to you to preserve Gaia. Please make the right choice.






Miraculously, the second time's the charm. And today I received a PM from Fin that reads as follows:




Hi. lots of humanity behind the avatar - just not a lot of sleep recently .

I hear you. I get why you and others find the advertising on the site frustrating. We talk about how to balance 'bringing in money to pay the bills' with 'making gaia better' all the time. In different shapes or forms, many times a week.

Ultimately, the reality is that to make gaia better costs money and we need to generate money - at least enough to cover our costs - just to ensure that we'll be here for the long haul. We don't yet cover our costs (i wrote about this in my journal if you want to check it out). It costs much more to run the business than most people ever guess - and to do things like fix bugs, make sure avi's serve quickly, etc - just takes a lot of work. And that's even though many people working here took paycuts to come to work at gaia because they were so passionate about what we're building.

We try really hard to take advertising from brands people like - and we've turned down a lot of deals. This last week we turned down a deal worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars for example from a company that didn't meet our standards. When we do sign a deal, we try hard to make the experience fun for users. We don't get it right every time, but we're trying to, and I think we're making progress slowly step by step.

What we're aiming for is getting brands to pay us to build things that gaians want anyways. Scion for example helped us build cars and rally on gaia. We're trying to do more of those types of deals (the economy doesn't help right now!).

In the meantime, while the site is changing and a lot of negatives can come with that, I hope that you think we're making some good steps too. zOMG! for example. We built that purely because it was the #1 requested thing from our users about 2 1/2 years ago when we asked gains in a number of polls and forum threads. We've had about 20+ people working on it for two years. It's FAR from perfect! (we'll be making it better for the next year i'm sure). But many gaians who've tried it (4+ year gaians) have been really positive. And frankly, I'm extremely proud of the people who worked on it. Many who literally got four hours a night of sleep for the last 6 weeks straight - trying to get zomg launched. One person took about 3 days off in the last YEAR because of zomg.

Ditto for things like events. People pulled all nighters on zomg! and worked over weekends and worked till 3 am , 4am to make events like olympics, prom and halloween cool. Some people think we make money from these events. nope! We do them because we think they're cool and we know gaians want them.

That's creativity and integrity for it's own sake; and for gaians.

And we've put a ton of resources into invisible things too: items no longer disappear in the marketplace for example - due to a huge rewrite last year of that system. Hacking cases - that last year took over 8 months to get solved (no joke) now take less than 8 days (we just broke 7-day turn-around last week). Things like that.

I'd love to know what you think of zomg - negative or positive. Also, about games like electric love factory. Do you think we should stop building these? Next year we have plans to improve guilds and forums and make an achievements / stats system. Big debate internally about fixing housing (making more customizable houses and 'clubhouses' to attach to guilds) (debate is: great idea but can we afford to work on this?).
Any thoughts? Would like to hear.

fin / craig




So, to you, my loyal guild members, I present these findings. And I ask your opinions and feedback. I'll keep the correspondence up- but I want to voice the entire guild's opinion.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:27 pm



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:53 am


He hasn't read mine yet. Maybe I should resend again? Of course, I may alter a few things now that I have read this. I'm glad he replied to yours. May I have permission to share this with the two other guilds I'm in (New Gaia Coalition and TFBG)?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:34 pm


luvableteekerz
He hasn't read mine yet. Maybe I should resend again? Of course, I may alter a few things now that I have read this. I'm glad he replied to yours. May I have permission to share this with the two other guilds I'm in (New Gaia Coalition and TFBG)?


Well, I'm planning on putting it on TFBG myself, I just haven't done so yet...

Also, The Correspondence Continues! I'm still looking for feedback and questions I should ask! So post 'em here!

Quote:
First and foremost, thanks for replying. I realize the second message sounded somewhat angry. Well, its good to hear that there's a human behind the avatar. Sometimes, I wonder. Haha.


All right. Well, you make many good points. As far as advertising goes, most users understand the monetary necessities of the site. Sometimes, though, it seems you've missed your demographic. I also use, for example, Myspace. The demographics on Myspace versus Gaia are completely different. Gaia is, or rather has been, geared towards a crowd of teens that...well, They're the artists, the loners, and basically the opposite of the average Myspace user. Myspace, as you probably know quite well, is a very different sort of place. But I often see the same ads on Gaia that I see on myspace. Clearly, if Gaia's users want to see these ads, they'll go on myspace.


A secondary complaint here is the infamous "Circuit City" ad, that leaps onto the page, forcing you to click. Also bothering many users are the ads with sound. Is there anything that Gaia can do to control the type of ad that is used on the site?

Which brings me to promotions. I understand how much revenue they can help you generate. As I said before, money isn't really the concern here; its the fact that hardcore Gaians feel like they're being ousted for a new, more profitable group of users. Gaians don't watch MTV. They don't enjoy Kung Fu Panda (in fact, they probably critique it for its misuse of the animal styles, as some of my Gaia-using friends do). They certainly don't want an interview with Snoop Dogg.



Gaia's true selling point is its "fantasy" aspect. Users are looking for an escape from the world that they don't really feel at home in. That's why role playing is such a draw here. Anything having to do with the society that puts the average Gaian ill at ease is a poor choice for a promotion.

Events, I understand. Really, I can appreciate how difficult it must be to put them together. I try not to complain too much about the events, even though I never find them too incredibly appealing.

Ah, zOMG.

Well, first off, let me preface with something I've seen all over the place and simply agree with completely: What's with the name? I'm sure there's a reason for it having been chosen, but really. "Battle System" Has more ring to it. Kinda sad, no?

Secondly, I'm still unable to play. I've heard very positive things, though, about the gameplay and design. I hope it works out well for you. I've been waiting for its release since I joined. I recall being told when I first added my account that a "battle system was on its way". Since then, I've wanted to take my avatar and pit it against others. So we'll se how it turns out, yes?


As far as new games, such as the Faktori, I personally put no stock in them. If I want games on the internet, I usually use a site who's purpose is to collect and present flash content (i.e. Newgrounds). I assume that, since most Gaians are affluent internet surfers, they would do the same. The gameplay on independent flash games is much better, and the variety is through the roof. You simply can't compete. Hopefully zOMG manages to take the MMO market by enough of a storm for it to be considered a success.


Finally, I must ask on behalf of many other users who are concerned on this topic: Do you intend to make Gaia (Or zOMG) "pay-to-play"? It seems that Gaia's emphasis, more and more, is on spending Real-Life cash to buy the best items. Many users are outraged about the price of fish for the aquriums. The fish cost five dollars, live for a few weeks, and die. So the five dollars was for....what? The aquariums seem to be a very pointless feature, and though Gaians may have asked for it, they are surely dissappointed. Similarly, the Cash Shop invokes dread from many users. There are so many new EI's, and they're sold at such a high cost, that even the users that are determined to buy them are having trouble paying for them. zOMG had cash-based items as soon as it opened up to testing.


Users are worried that these real-life costs will continue to integrate into the system until, eventually, the site will be exclusive to those willing to pay. Though this may seem like paranoia, it would still be good to hear your opinion on the matter.


I thank you for your responses, and I hope that these PM's help bridge the gap between users and the developmental staff of Gaia.

-lfinnl



I'll look into those ads. We actually have two totally different types of ads on our site: sponsorships (like kungfu panda or funimation) where we negotiate deals directly with the brand or their ad agency and build something for it. We have control over those. I get your point about the choice of brands but what makes this really hard is that we have very little control over which brands want to advertise with us. We certainly try - we go pitch the brands we think would be cool on gaia. But the way things work is that the biggest most mainstream brands are the ones with the most money and they are much more likely to come to us and ask to advertise. Many of the brands we approach directly have very very little money to spend or for some reason I can't explain they simply say 'no.' Not all is lost, though . Our sales team is going out aggressively to try to get cooler brands. For example we've talked to funimation for 2 years now and they are going to give us 500 episodes of different anime content (they aren't going to pay us anything unfortunately but on the other hand we aren't going to pay them for the 'right' to show their content so overall it's good for gaians).

The other type of advertising on our site is ads through "ad networks", where we just sign up, give them our inventory and they run ads through it. It's an automated tool basically. We have little or no control over what they put into those ad spaces. Most of the annoying stuff is that. But we only sell a tiny bit through sponsorships so we need to supplement it with ad networks. They also take no dev or art work on our part so they don't distract us from doing other projects. We can - however - go in and individually complain about a specific banner and often the ad network will take it out. We'll try that on the circuit city ad.

On zOMG!, it was a name suggested by users and we thought it was cool. I hope it grows on everyone. I personally like the fact that adults/parents don't know how to pronounce it and that it's irreverent - not 'super serious' like most games take themselves. Fits more with the feel of gaia. In the end, what really matters of course is the game. If the game is good, the name will grow on people. If it's not, we have bigger problems!

Most of zOMG! is free. It will have elements, however, that you can pay for - like health potions to make you stronger. Even these will be tradable on the marketplace so someone who earns gold through activities on the site can get them without paying. To start/upon launch, we're not as aggressive as maple story or runescape at charging for stuff in the game - and that's on purpose so everyone can enjoy it whether people have money or not. But honestly I can't promise what we'll do long term. We have 20 people or so working on the game going forward to make it deeper, better performance, etc. It has to ultimately break-even or we can't afford to have people keep it going. It really depends on how things go over the next few months. I'm optimistic we'll always offer 'more value' for far 'less money' than other games, though.

Thanks as well for your feedback on the mini flash games. I shared your PM with a few people here yesterday because we've been debating this. (it's not just you of course who has made this point - check out my journal post where I asked for feedback on mini flash games, plus various threads in site feedback).

What do you think of the mochi-games contest we did?

lfinnl
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:55 pm


I'm not sure how that Zomg will be around after it's trial period. . . despite what Gaian's want, even though fin *finn?* wants it too be. Maybe it WILL become a pay to play. neutral

*sighs*

But then again, only time will tell. . . .but I hope that Gaia gets a postive feedback on it so that we're able to keep it around.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:40 pm


Some info that I picked out and discussed a little on the Snap episode 5 discussion.

Discussion on the following comments by Gaia CEO, Craig Sherman aka fin.

"Next year we have plans to improve guilds and forums and make an achievements / stats system."
[6:41:38 PM] signoraviper says: FAIL how does that grab you for an achievement status?
[6:41:46 PM] Tutsumi H says: Maybe the Karma System will make a come back?
[6:41:59 PM] signoraviper says: Maybe
[6:42:30 PM] angellicdarknessfalls says: Hopefully
[6:42:58 PM] signoraviper says: So, do you think Gaia will have to pay higher taxes?

"Big debate internally about fixing housing (making more customizable houses and 'clubhouses' to attach to guilds) (debate is: great idea but can we afford to work on this?)."

"we've talked to funimation for 2 years now and they are going to give us 500 episodes of different anime content (they aren't going to pay us anything unfortunately but on the other hand we aren't going to pay them for the 'right' to show their content so overall it's good for gaians)."
[6:51:26 PM] angellicdarknessfalls says: If they are giving the episodes to Gaia at no cost then the risk runs that it'll only be a few per show. Plus, I have a feeling that the last poll is a tie in to that comment.

"Most of zOMG! is free. It will have elements, however, that you can pay for - like health potions to make you stronger. Even these will be tradable on the marketplace so someone who earns gold through activities on the site can get them without paying."

"But honestly I can't promise what we'll do long term. We have 20 people or so working on the game going forward to make it deeper, better performance, etc. It has to ultimately break-even or we can't afford to have people keep it going. It really depends on how things go over the next few months. I'm optimistic we'll always offer 'more value' for far 'less money' than other games, though.

Tutsumi H


nissafairy109

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:07 am


Guild clubhouses would be a great idea!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:36 pm


nissafairy109
Guild clubhouses would be a great idea!


That's actually some of the only good news in the posts. I'd be pleased with such a system, as it would :

A) Give us a place to exchange ideas more quickly.

B) Provide more options for Guild Fund usage. Imagine it, buying something other than subforums with all our gold!

C) Hopefully, include a feature for broadcasting to a guild. That'd really simplify things.


I still need to respond to the last one, so if anyone has ideas for further complaints, I'd like to hear them.

lfinnl
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:41 pm


Maybe for the zOMG clan, we could actually have a little virtual building to work with?
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