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 Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:09 pm
I haven't seen this discussed anywhere (correct me if I'm wrong), and I was just wondering...
Does anyone else think it's interesting that pensieves, despite coming, apparently, from personal memories, seem to be completely objective? For instance, they are in 'third person.' (As in, Harry or the viewer comes in as a separate and new witness. He does not see the memory through the owner's eyes.) When you think about it, a person is only able to see what is in front of him, what his eyes are currently looking at, and his view would be colored by prejudices and opinions. But a pensieve is able to show everything happening around the person at the time. So, the owner of the 'memory' -- I don't even think memory is an appropriate term at this point. Experience might be better-- only has to be present at the location of the happening, not aware of it? Does that mean, you can have pensieves which record what happens while you are asleep? Could you put a spy in a room, have him stare into a book the whole time, but then access a pensieve in order to show everything that happened around him?
Am I over-analyzing?
Along with my first discussion, would two people's memories of the same event be identical? So, for instance, if we could watch James' pensieve of the time he Levicorpus'd Snape, would it play out exactly the same?
Maybe this is explained and I missed it? If so, sorry. Just give me a rap on the hand.
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:43 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:24 pm
Well, thank you. I'd never read that interview. redface
It still seems pretty weird to me to be able to 'remember' things you never experienced or saw in the first place, but I guess with magic you can do anything. I wonder how far the range stretches, like how far away from the owner of the memory can you walk and still see things? There has to be a limit or you could just spy on everyone with a pensieve. In fact, seems to me the pensieve is pretty much the ultimate spying weapon from that description.
Is that her only interview on pensieves?
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:38 pm
On pages 566 and 567 of OotP it says: Quote: A gang of chattering girls separated Snape from James, Sirius and Lupin and by planting himself in their midst, Harry managed to keep Snape in sight while straining his ears to catch the voices of James and his friends. Quote: Harry looked anxiously behind him again. Snape remained close by, still buried in his exam questions - but this was Snape's memory and Harry was sure that if Snape chose to wander off in a different direction once outside in the grounds, he, Harry, would not be able to follow James any further. It seems from those passages that you have to keep the person who's memory it is in sight but then again its just Harry's speculation and Harry isn't always right. That is all I could find on Pensive range but someone could probably find more.
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 5:42 pm
I'm not sure. I'll try and google it for you.
I agree that it would be an awesome spying tool, but I have a feeling that the range of what we are aware of only stretches as far as our senses. So, if something is out of sight or earshot we probably aren't really aware of it. (out of sight, out of mind)
But then again, J.K. said that it captures a moment, not a memory, so the sense theory may not apply.
question exclaim
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:02 pm
Okay I googled it. I got lots of hits but when I looked at them they weren't really about the pensieve. Theres actually a fansite called the Pensieve and that clogged up the search a bit. Sorry. sad
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Toothsome Conversationalist
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:51 pm
It's always seemed a little fishy to me, but Rowling wrote the pensieve to be an objective recording of events. I wish I had one!
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:22 am
Of everything in Harry Potter, I find the Pensive the least believable. Magic does have limits, and being able to veiw a "memory" that isn't really a memory really ought to be one of those.
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:02 pm
There is one problem, though. Hokey the House Elf left the room during the middle of her own memory! Objective I can understand, but I think it still has to be something that the owner of the memory witnessed.
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:33 am
Well if we ask Jo she'll probably think up some clever but transparent answer like, "Ummm...A house-elf has to be aware of the things happening to her master in case she is needed, so Hokey has special ways of sensing...whatever. There are so many wholes in that argument I can't write anymore. Kreacher could spy on Harry, Winky would know about Crouch..."
*Sits in a corner with her arms around her knees, rocking back and forward and muttering*
My head is so clogged up, I need a pensieve.
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:50 pm
Erifairy It seems from those passages that you have to keep the person who's memory it is in sight but then again its just Harry's speculation and Harry isn't always right. That is all I could find on Pensive range but someone could probably find more. Those are great quotes. Yeah, I don't know how Harry knew that stuff, but that sounds plausible (although still kind of cheap). Acidic Cynic Okay I googled it. I got lots of hits but when I looked at them they weren't really about the pensieve. Theres actually a fansite called the Pensieve and that clogged up the search a bit. Sorry. sad Oh, thanks Acidic! It's ok. Pensieve is too common a word. I am even a member of a site with "Pensieve" in it. smile But thanks a lot anyway! RegulusofSlytherin Of everything in Harry Potter, I find the Pensive the least believable. Magic does have limits, and being able to veiw a "memory" that isn't really a memory really ought to be one of those. I agree. I think they're interesting, but it seems a bit too much. It almost makes Pensieves more like a big video camera in the sky that follows the memory's owner around and records everything happening around them. That's not a memory at all. That's just a recording device. But yeah, that means you'd better never say anything private in the vicinity of, well, anyone. Even whispering means nothing. I mean, really, anyone present during Snape's embarassing memory could have spied on the Marauders and become suspicious of their involvement with a werewolf. The Minister could have replayed his memory of being in Hagrid's hut when Buckbeak disappeared and simply looked out the window or wandered outside and seen Harry and Hermione.
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:04 pm
I'm feeling much better now, thank you for asking. wink
Well, I have a feeling that the pensieve is just one of those remarkable and rare things that Dumbledore has, like Fawkes... Snape had to borrow it, didn't he? Maybe the Ministry doesn't even have one. So old, or so foreign, that they haven't thought to get one. I wonder if the evidence in a pensieve is admissable in a wizard court.
Oh and I had something I wanted to say before but I don't think I said it. I don't have time to copy out the quote, but if you read in GoF the bit where Harry sees the trials in Dumbledore's pensieve, do you notice that he gets his own seat? Right beside Dumbledore. Why was there a spare seat beside Dumbledore, I ask you? Inconsistencies! So.Many.Inconsistencies- *Pants with head held in hands and eye twitching* gonk
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:27 pm
*pats Acidic*
Yah know, I hadn't thought of that before.
You're right too, Captain. Why don't the just do that? I'll bet if we asked Jo she'd give us an answer like Acidic's. That they're really rare, ect.
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:21 pm
RegulusofSlytherin You're right too, Captain. Why don't the just do that? I'll bet if we asked Jo she'd give us an answer like Acidic's. That they're really rare, ect. Yeah, that's a good point, Acidic. I guess not everybody has one, so it's not going to be used recreationally. But I just thought, what about Voldemort? Like he couldn't get his hands on one if he wanted to! Then he could just take the "memory" of any of the Death Eaters present at the Ministry when the prophecy broke and no one heard it and replay that part and listen? Even if it was loud in there, he could get up close to it and replay as many times as he needs. Well, it must be really, really rare if Voldemort couldn't find one. EDIT: Sirius should have given Harry some memories for Christmas, of his parents. Then he could play them in the pensieve and know what they were like.
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Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:56 am
CaptainJames RegulusofSlytherin You're right too, Captain. Why don't the just do that? I'll bet if we asked Jo she'd give us an answer like Acidic's. That they're really rare, ect. Yeah, that's a good point, Acidic. I guess not everybody has one, so it's not going to be used recreationally. But I just thought, what about Voldemort? Like he couldn't get his hands on one if he wanted to! Then he could just take the "memory" of any of the Death Eaters present at the Ministry when the prophecy broke and no one heard it and replay that part and listen? Even if it was loud in there, he could get up close to it and replay as many times as he needs. Well, it must be really, really rare if Voldemort couldn't find one. EDIT: Sirius should have given Harry some memories for Christmas, of his parents. Then he could play them in the pensieve and know what they were like. why bother i mean he already has moving pictures of them... i mean he could say relive there wedding, but wouldn't that be creepy....
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