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I think you make some interesting points. From your point of view I can see how God would be a lesser being than humans. Though, I tend to look at things from a scientific perspective. Therefore I have to disagree with some points.

I realize that you only used one example to explain how things repeat themselves, but an atom can't really be compared to a solar system. Other than the slightly similar structure, they really don't share any comparison in function or attributes. Just by roughly looking over basic cosmology and chemistry you can tell that there isn't really any correlation, merely a coincidence. I do see what you were trying to say though, i just think an alternate example would be more accurate

Also, when you say that humans were created, you are overlooking the fact that humans evolved to our form, and we will continue to evolve in the future. But, even in the perspective that we were created in our current form, why would we be made so flawed? Whether we like to believe it or not, humans are not perfect beings, in both our structure and our habits.

You are pretty much saying God is to humans as humans are to robots. Though, this correlation does not specify purpose. Robots would be created for one purpose; labor for humans. What were humans created for? To suck all the life and resources out of a planet? Robots work for humans, while humans work for humans. Everything we do is to make greater of ourselves and no one else. If we are anything like God, than that God would have given us a purpose to benefit itself when it created us.

Overall, I don't disagree with you. I just think that there are more factors to it that I don't know how to explain.

in one particular Shoujo Anime, it explained God.

It was a multi part series about a number of different girls and the experiences they had. One of them was a math teacher who had a legendary Professor teach her. She had PI recorded in a book, and at some point in time, she stepped through a portal to go back in time, to present herself the book, which she carried with her her whole life, - but the professor was there in both time lines, and existed outside of the standard time loop, thus waiting for her mind to advance far enough to see him again.

He explained to her the meaning of Pi, and how it correlated to God. Pi is a proccess by which mathematicians draw ever closer to perfection of a circle, but pi is infinite as a decimal, and only functions as a ratio using geometry mankind currently doesn't comprehend. Archimedes had solved infinity in his journal, which we are currently seeking after translation, a project which will take a few more years (estimate 5-7).

Where we are in chasing "pi" or perfection, is not the same place as God, but God's nature includes the chase. So at our moment, we could at some point, surpass where God is, but by the time we accomplish this task, God will have already surpassed that point.

so what we have is a system of progression which is not merely a static, and not merely a dynamic velocity, but one of acceleration. This acceleration can be mapped, and measured, as ratios, but not as decimals, for the decimals are also infinite. The Ratio is connected to Phi.

The idea that robots are more efficient that humans is exceedingly false. the more proper statement is "robots are more efficient than unskilled lazy humans".

Manufactured products by robots are unable to achieve the quality of humans, especially in mass production. There are examples in every manufactured product. Custom built computers are better than factory built, custom carved chairs are more sturdy and precise than factory production, custom taylored clothing is better than Walmart machine stich, and popular mechanics laugh heartily at the newest "safety products" which fail to meet REAL standards of durability that older, more "primitive" products achieved.
CD quality music is not as high quality as LP, and digital "sniffers" are fallable where search dogs and professional wine tasters are employed by people such as INTERPOL.

The illusion of efficiency is one which plagues mankind for it produces in him a sense of false ego... - Demo is right, man will someday exceed where God is now, and that is something to be proud of - far more than a pile of scrap metal. But man will never exceed God at the same time that God is, for it is a race that never finishes.

Philosophy Professors will ask you, if God is omnipotent, can he create a stone he cannot throw? This statement is designed to prove that nothing can be omnipotent, but God cannot be, and therefore God is nothing.
The answer to the question is "yes God can defy a paradox, because he is omnipotent" The moment you realize that the limits of human language are exactly that - limits, you void your right to discuss things which are without limits, for the power of speech fails you.

The universe is infact, as Demo explains, a series of duplications, however, the planets do not actually represent the electrons in complete "containment". Everything in the universe can be described as a Toroid. The visible forces often confuse people who do not see the innivisble forces. A Person can perceive every spectrum of radiation or he wouldn't be able to be effected by it.

Man isn't limited to lightspeed because the electrons in his system move faster than they do. Thefrequency of gamma radiation is higher than the frequency of visible light, but the frequency of electrons is still higher than gamma radiation. The frequency of a blackhole is higher than either.

People like to place limits on mankind by the speed of thought, yet the human mind is capable of processing information of events which have not yet transpired. How can anything have a higher velocity than the reverse of time?

Infinity can be measured as 90 degrees. if you have two vectors spaced apart, irreguardless of their distance, two rays will intersect unless the angle between their two closest points is parrallel or excess. This is the principle of collision.

Machines get tired, and old. first of all, a machine can never do anything its programmer and builder didnt design it to do. Creativity and progression are organic concepts. At some point in the future, we will have organic computers in the same way we now transplant human DNA into mice for attempts at higher intelligence.

At that point we may say to ourselves "Ah hah! we have finally built a machine better than human!" but have we not merely created a cybernetic human being with more limitations?

The ability of human tissues to adapt according to the mind and more quintessential components is his/her true strength. Our weaknesses are perceived as strengths, yet without those limitations, we would never have anything to surpass. Man is now born flying yet he flies today.

Some of you believe in the powers of the mind, and others do not. For me, the powers of the mind (Psi) are a clear indication of the sign of potential divinity within each of us.

Truly, it can be said that I believe there is a God because I can already see mankind acting ever closer to Him.

I also know that God is a man. How?

Because Goddess is a woman.

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I found a few quotes from the big man himself (or his interpreters). Anyways I felt that I should share them since much of the text in the bible correlates with some of the discussions brought up in this thread.



Something that I noticed here, that isn't present in any other part of Genesis, is that God refers to man as in "our" image, after "our" likeness. This could further support the theory that there are, infact, multiple Gods past what we view as our God.



This particular passage could be viewed different ways. There is the possibility that it is just redundant for literary teachnique (which is rare in the bible), or it can be viewed as saying that God created man as Gods. This goes along with the last portion of Genesis 1.26 in saying that humans are Gods of earth and thats exactly as God planned. Though, this still says nothing of whether humans surpass God. I couldn't find anything of that liking, but I did find something that is often looked over. God is viewed as omnipotent in every way. Well, in the ever so common Noah's Arc story, God openly states his fault.



Once again, these passages do not specify any particular view on the subject. They are solely for interpretive purposes. One should realize that most everything written in the bible can be taken in different contexts, thus is the reason why there are so many branches of Christianity.

I'm gonna go slow, so that my brain can parse this without going boom. There are a couple of things that we need to remember when looking at the humans vs. robots example(s).

Human internal organs are highly complex. For the mere job of pumping oxygen and blood throughout the body (such as when the heart and lungs cannot function during surgery and the like), a machine that's roughly the size of a room must be used. For the job of distilling one's blood of toxins, and removing waste materials (i.e., in the case of kidney failure), the next best thing is to use a dialysis machine, which is also larger, bulkier, and nowhere near as efficient. The human being is unable to create something as complex as he is, because while he may have been a creation that's a few hundred thousand years in the making, current technology is only a few years old (maybe 10 - 30 years, max). Now if you were to compare this with traditional definitions of celestial time (such as one celestial day lasting 100 human years), you would see that a few hundred thousand years is not that much time at all for god(s) to be working on humans. For the sake of math, let's do this in the same units:

1 celestial day = (100 years x 365 days/year)
1 CD = 36,500 HD

Basically, even all of Earth's evolution of the 4.56 billion years seems kind of ... small in comparison.

Now, to address the issues of a particular machine doing something better or faster, there's a couple of things to bear in mind:

1. They are dependent upon us for explicit instructions as to what to do. If you wanted an analog to "gods'" creation, I would say, look at the plants. They are more or less hard-wired in what they will do, with little to no variables outside of other things that interfere with them. Ditto this on all the abiotic features of the planet. They are simply /there/, and don't do anything until external input is introduced.

2. Machines are highly specialised, humans are not. This is similar, in the animal kingdom, to those beasts who are VERY good at one thing. Cheetahs can run at 65 MPH. Alligators have hundreds of kilos per square centimeter of bite pressure. Kangaroos can jump (hop?) reall high. Meanwhile, try to get the one of these animals to try on the other animals' jobs. Kangaroos don't swim. You won't see a gator in the desert. Since when can a Cheetah jump repeatedly like a 'roo can? Although we may not be the best at the particular things we do, it's because we do not specialise in any one particular area. In both our diets and our talents, humans are omnivorous.

In other words, that machine that knows how to weld can do /nothing/ else.

3. Machines are not self-maintaining apparatuses. Left in their most natural states, humans are capable of allowing their own bodies to heal themselves. (And please, do not muddle the argument with the outliers, such as those who are physically born deformed. I'm looking at the larger populations). For the most part, even when afflicted with a physical ailment such as a cold, a cut, or a sore, outside help is only that -- help. The actual healing itself is done by the body itself, not an outside agent. When you cut your skin, you put on a bandage to help keep the wound free of outside particles, you don't attribute the actual closing of the wound to the bandgage. That's the job of your immune system.

Finally, I approach your question of the machines still being incapable of a fraction of what we are, because our technology is limited. Now pose that same question to the human condition -- maybe we're not able of performing quite as much as the creator, because we have simply not reached that level of advanced thinking. There are still barriers that we, as humans, place in our own paths (prejudices, hang-ups, phobias) of mental evolution.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think something inferior would be able to produce something superior to it in all respects. We may be better/more efficient at certain specific things, but not everything. We as humans have still have been unable to have any creation that singularly surpasses our abilities in everything we're capable of. While specific traits might be performed better by machines, too many other variables enter the picture to call those creations superior.

while creating life isnt impossible in a literal sense, all of the previous attempts at creating life have begun with existing life. Cloning for example requires two living donors or a single donor, a lab, and then a mother for a womb.

Test tube babies arent born in test tubes, they are just bonded (sperm and egg) in a test tube.

Genetic engineering while promising to the point of fantasy, is still only copying what is already there, and thus far, not a single improvement has been made, - only corrections vaguely reaching the original with side effects often lethal and tragically so.

quite frankly, ontology tells some of us that since the physical body is just a screen projection of the mind, that evolution is a mental process, not a physical process, and our physical approach is like trying to use Ice to create a river dam.

humans evolve and devolve all the time. just not in the same way darwin predicted. For example, the entire bible is a bunch of evolution records, such as the Watchers and the strange abilities they inherited. Jesus christ is an example of what you get when one parent isnt mortal. Noah is a descendant of a man who lived to be over 900 years old, and his DNA was sufficiently diverse enough to populate the whole world.

Cain/Ham/Cainaan are examples of a genetic predisposition listed in biblical times for certain features, as outlined in the Kebra Negast, as are the Levites in the Torah, and the birth right of Aaron in the times after Moses.

i thinkthere are essentially three races of humanity.
humans, subhumans, and superhumans.

the antediluvians and an occassional prophet or saint (or diabolical counterpart) would be a superhuman to some variant degree (example, Khan, Mozart, Moses, Methuselah, Enoch, Job, Cain)

subhumans would be an example of what happens when a mix of culture, bad choices, and poor diet create a civilization worthy of obliteration (in order to avoid political scandal, lets just say films such as "super size me" coupled with the Sodom/Gommorah stories are sufficient to illustrate the point)

humans are about where most people are right now, making msitakes, learning from some of the mistakes, not learning from others, generally materialistic, occassionally charitable, faithful enough to know that something better is out there but usually too lazy to try. These are people who go to the films but have little in common with the people on the screen.