Welcome to Gaia! ::

Universe - an Open House for the Open-Minded

Back to Guilds

A unique guild for discussing philosphy, science, community and personal issues, to avoid those who destroy open discussion. 

Tags: philosophy, science, discussion, debate, life 

Reply Philosophy
The first idea

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

SunsetSkater

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:48 pm


What do you think was the first thought ever to orginate? Elaborate on it

The first thought that had a deep meaning was in a similar fashion paraphrase your responce
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:02 am


Personally, I think the first thoughts of Earth's life would have been things like "food" or "escape." As for human beings, we didn't have language when our thoughts originated. So, we can't really pinpoint the real thoughts of thinking animals, because they can be very abstract. But thought is one of those things that I believe started with instinct, then developed into more complex, trivial things.

Thought is nothing but confusion.

Jerba
Captain


Michael Noire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:55 pm


The first thought. Hmnn... lets break that down.

If the first thought is about something perceived then it requires perceptive faculties and objects to perceive. If we speak in terms of a material universe, sensory perception would be the first mark on the Tabula Rasa, except children are not blank slates when in the womb. Their brains actually process various mathematical systems such as spatial relationships and sequence, among other cognitive functions. By the time a baby is born, it has already had several dreams. This brings to mind the complexities of designing an AI.

How does a computer recognize anything except what we program in it to receive? I put forward without some basic architectural tools of reasoning, it cannot learn anything it does not already know. For example, a keyboard missing the letter Z is incapable of typing "Zebra" or "Jazz" unless the Z key is replaced. Likewise, unless some kind of primordial identification system exists in perceptive entities for classification in terms of sound and color - frequency registrations, and tactile sensations, there is no classification possible.

On the other hand, if a being comes into existence from an idealistic universe, where thought precedes matter, then the question - what is the first thought, becomes incredibly profound and important. Without a body, or universe to reflect on, perception may not be the most appropriate mnemonic activity. Beginning with a noumenal state of being, the first thought would have to be something generative in terms of ex nihlo creation.

Specific words, like Attention, Consciousness, and Decision come to mind, as well as Choice.

Choice is impossible without multiplicity, and decision is impossible with available choice to decide upon. Attention implies focus, but focus implies perception or will upon a specific thing. With no "thing" extant, this also becomes an impossible paradox. Consciousness clearly seems necessary, but it also seems vacant without the power of choice, in the same way a computer's camera may endow it with perception, and it's program and memory the semblance of consciousness, yet the computer is entirely impotent and unaware of it's own being - insomuch as every decision it makes is predetermined.

Somehow, the first thought has to be related to Self Awareness, and if Self Awareness does not yet exist, in order to generate Consciousness, the first Choice, and thus Decision, would have to be electing Self Awareness, thus producing conscious thought of the self. This thereby produces the first series of numbers, namely: thinking, and not thinking (1 & 0).

Pondering further, it makes sense that there would be consciousness of self, and thus the potential of not self, of whole, and of division, of existence, and its polarity, non existence. In terms of substance, only addition and division are real. Multiplication is a memorization trick using dimensions, and subtraction presumes the possibility of negative existence. But division assumes if one is whole, then half is also possible, and addition presumes what is split may again be combined to make whole.

If nothing exists, and something exists, then we have a division of is and is not. At some point music, the fibonacci sequence, and geometry comes into play, and cosmology progresses to the material world of mortals and pondering about wheels of fire.
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:20 pm


It wouldn't have been a symbolic thought seeing as how there was no language, but if you could put the first thought of anything with thought into words, that thought would most likely translate to "I am" or "I exist" - it would be self-awareness. From that, well...everything would follow.

Marisarin Histale


dragonmatt5

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:46 pm


Marisarin Histale
It wouldn't have been a symbolic thought seeing as how there was no language, but if you could put the first thought of anything with thought into words, that thought would most likely translate to "I am" or "I exist" - it would be self-awareness. From that, well...everything would follow.


I don't agree. I think it would be more about how something is interacting with them. Danger, hunger, some immediate need to address.
The aspect of I exist would require time to internally think and examine yourself.
Your first thought more then likely wouldn't be based on stating your existence so much as something related to maintaining, from which you could have the line of thought extend to acknowledging existence of self.
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:12 pm


dragonmatt5
Marisarin Histale
It wouldn't have been a symbolic thought seeing as how there was no language, but if you could put the first thought of anything with thought into words, that thought would most likely translate to "I am" or "I exist" - it would be self-awareness. From that, well...everything would follow.


I don't agree. I think it would be more about how something is interacting with them. Danger, hunger, some immediate need to address.
The aspect of I exist would require time to internally think and examine yourself.
Your first thought more then likely wouldn't be based on stating your existence so much as something related to maintaining, from which you could have the line of thought extend to acknowledging existence of self.
Agreed.

Jerba2
Crew


Morberticus

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:50 am


It would probably be better to phrase such a question in terms of cognitive evolution. Asking when the first thought occured is a little like asking when the first human was born*.

*Not to imply that humans were the first to "think".
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:45 pm


But isn't an 'idea' a symbolic thought, nearly by definition?

Lord Beckon


FlameRunner22

4,050 Points
  • Beta Forum Regular 0
  • Beta Citizen 0
  • Beta Treasure Hunter 0
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:18 pm


I think it was the differnce between right and wrong because people have different opinions about it
Reply
Philosophy

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum