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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:41 pm
Ok I just beat Ep.2 Literrally seconds ago...And its a good thing too because its one off the list of my massibve stack of games I have to beat and WTC??? Wilhelm called chaos Yeshua, which is the jewish name for jesus....umm riiiighhht....and also I saw in my game informer that albedo might not be gone for good after all that he might make an appearance...but how can he if he reincarnated into A DOG...lol ok let me unpause and watch the rest of the credits to see if theres anything else i want to ramble about...mmm pretty music for once....hmm nope....except for the fact that when shion said jin it sounded like chin....lol...who randomly yells out chin? huh? oooo yay another movie!! ooo pretty person in white cape!! probably chaos....or shall i say...Jesus?
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:53 pm
Ok so Ive read around and thats already been established....and I thought chaos was the whitetestament because in ep.1 the blue one called him boss...plus albedo died or w/e and turned into a dog. but then again virgil became a testament when he died too.......so i dont know...but this is what ive always thought of chaos....the original KOS_MOS had white hair so i thought maybe she wasnt completely destroyed that wilhelm took her in, and since he has the power to give life he did so and also gave her some of his own powers..cut her hair a little bit and voila...i always thought that when she reawoken wilhelm may have told her about all the chaos she inflicted, and that became his name, explaining the lower caseness maybe? this may also be the reason chaos always had such a feminine voice in ep.1 and also why he was so interested in kos-mos and why he stood on the durandal with no breathing problems at all and on the cover of ep.1 kosmos was angel wings....chaos occasionally sprouts some...like in angel blow...buuut chaos already existed when shion was just a girl correct? becuase he and canaan went to old miltia and shion was adult when she shot original kos mos....ooo my head!!! but that would also explain why they kinda bonded in the end of ep.1....well all will be told in ep.3!!...hopefully...also i want to know more of this boy in the end of ep.1 who was playing with the building blocks....could he be god? and uhh isnt his name abel...as inabels ark? i once rented a book from the church library because the title was called the nephilim seed....i never finished it but apparently in the bible the nephilim were giants who roamed the earth or something...but there was something in there that said chaos would come from the nephilim or something....but in the plot of it this dudes limo driver was obsessed with nietzches stuff, and eventually turned into a demon nd tried to kill the dude...thats as far as i read ok enough of that nonsense...im sooo confused right now....
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:28 pm
Hmm... well let me respond to a few things:
chaos is Jesus: Well on a somewhat technical level I would have to say you're correct (in that Yeoshua is another name for Jesus). The question with this one is exactly what is being implied by this / how far are they taking the allusion.
Testaments: The general thought regarding the identities of the four testaments is as follows:
- Blue = Virgil (confirmed, ep1)
- Red = Kevin
- Black = "Voyager" (confirmed, Pied Piper/Ep2 - "Voyager" is somewhat of an ambigious entity in and of itself)
- White = Albedo
The main logic behind the white testament being Albedo is usually, 1) he sounds like Albedo, 2) he's the white testament, 3) Wilhelm's final lines give some strong hints, "I said it was a shame, didn't I?" is a direct refference to his line in episode 1 "His will shines with such wonderous light. It's a shame to relagate him to such a minor role." Also Wilhelm reffers to him as "weaver of the eternal circle of Zarathustra," which seems more fitting for Albedo than anyone else when you take his infinite telemorase ability into consideration (and Albedo's allusions to Zarathustra in his final speech may have been foreshadowing this development).
Archetype KOS-MOS: Officially the body of the archetype was "disposed of" but I believe the ODM makes specific refference to the fact that there is no record of exactly what happend to it. If you take a look at the episode 3 trailers (I'm not considering the episode 3 trailers ep3 spoilers, but if you do don't read past this until the next paragraph break) a new android, looking a great deal like KOS-MOS, named T-ELOS shows up. The running theory is that she's the archetype, but it's heavily disputed at the moment.
chaos: Likely the name "chaos" is written in lowercase because it's more of a nickname and as such it's not treated like a proper name (addmittedly it's a strange practice, but I believe the main reason was to imply that "chaos" was an alias/nickname/psudeoname in a fairly subtle name). We now know that his real name is Yeoshua. You should disregard any differences in voices between episodes 1 and 2, they're irrelivant to the story (for whatever reason the US team decided to replace half the cast, though the Japaneses cast remained the same). Many people consider chaos (and Wilhelm too) to be supernatural beings of some sort, but exactly what kind of supernatural beings really depends on who you ask. And episode 2 makes it very clear that chaos isn't as old as he looks ("looks 15" in the manual) since he looks the same 15 years ago.
Abel: Honestly, I can't remember when he's named in either game or even if he actually is, but everyone calls him Abel anyway. He shows up in screencaps for episode 3 so I'm sure we'll find out more about him then. I would be supprised if a Cain showed up at some point too...
Nephilim: The Nephilim were the children of humans and angels, look it up on Wikipedia for an extended explination.
Hope that helps clear some things up.
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:17 pm
Random stuff to add:
The trailer confirms Albedo as the White Testament. When he takes off his mask and says "memories," you can see the skin color, exactly the same as Albedo's slightly darkened color.
Perhaps chaos' real name is impossible to comprehend, or in some kind of crazy language of the upper planes! Who was it that said he was from a higher plane? Was it in the dictionary in episode one? Is he from the same plane as the Gnosis, just completely shifted in?
So I didn't add much, just reinforced what was there and presented new questions, oh well.
And that KOS-MOS and T-ELOS stuff, there's a thread somewhere where that is talked about. One (Kos-Mos I think) represents order, of the universe? And then the other (T-Elos) represents chaos, in the universe? Whatever it is, they are polar opposites. Its what their names mean translated from latin, oh yeah, Kos-Mos is latin, maybe its all caps there?
Was that thread in this guild? Or is it in the one that mysteriously dissapeared?
Whoa its greek, and its here in this guild. And you were the one that said it so I sound stupid now. Oh well, there goes my random speculation, best to ignore most of what I just said.
On that note, what did happen to that other guild?
Whoa again, nevermind then. The guild just turned into some other guild.
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Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:12 pm
There are two Yeshuas in the bible. One we all know as Jesus but the other is Joshua. Both names are not uncommon sense Yeshua means "Yahweh's Savior or Yahweh is Salvation."
Nephilim as children of the fallen angels and human women. The appear in three different areas of the bible. One set of Nephilims was distroy byt the flood and David and his blood kind killed others like Goliath.
Of course, most know abel and Cain as being the children of Adam and Eve. Cain's disobey and offered up the wrong thing. He was jelous of Abel and killed him. Then Cain was curse that he and his blood line could never grow anything agian(nowthere is a way for that curse to be lifted, but that is for another time.)
The ark, either Noah's or the covenet, both carried important things.
I find it curious that the four, Albiedo, Rubido and the others (can't remember their names) have the same colors as the four horsemen in Revaltion. Rubido aka Jr as the same color and feature of the red horsemen which is war.
The white hoursemen come porclaming a false peace and is a fake that recieves a crown.
As for angels with wings, that is something man as add becuase there is no record of any angel with wings. Now Seriphims and Cherubims have wings but there are twom different creatures.
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:34 pm
SarisDevil Ok I just beat Ep.2 Literrally seconds ago...And its a good thing too because its one off the list of my massibve stack of games I have to beat and WTC??? Wilhelm called chaos Yeshua, which is the jewish name for jesus....umm riiiighhht....and also I saw in my game informer that albedo might not be gone for good after all that he might make an appearance...but how can he if he reincarnated into A DOG...lol ok let me unpause and watch the rest of the credits to see if theres anything else i want to ramble about...mmm pretty music for once....hmm nope....except for the fact that when shion said jin it sounded like chin....lol...who randomly yells out chin? huh? oooo yay another movie!! ooo pretty person in white cape!! probably chaos....or shall i say...Jesus? heyyy umm person! so u just beat it? great. im like on the 2nd disk n ii am in the E.S's where old milta is. im at where i think they have 2 fight the Holiness guy or sumthun. can u help me.
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:02 am
The thing that I've come to wonder about, though, is something to do with the whole party. Now, there are 13 Zohar; one for each apsotle and one for Jesus ("mariankind" in episode I, which means roughly "son of mary"). Now, taking into account the rapidly growing party, and chaos' true name, I've started to wonder if maybe chaos will wind up the main character, with 12 party members aiding him. Each member might be assigned to a zohar (like how shion was drawn to the zohar on the bridge of the Woglinde in E.1). This would certainly keep with the theme that seems to be going so far. But it's kinda sad to think they may wind up killing off chaos, though only for a little while if they follow the story further. Still it would make sense.
Oh, and something most people don't seem to notice is that the Gnosis are comprised of salt. That seems to me like an allusion to the story of soddem and gamora, where the woman whom looked back was turned into a pillar of salt.
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:52 pm
I'm curious how they're going to pull this story, there really isn't much telling if it's allegorical or literal at this point...
I read somewhere the theory dealing with KOS-MOS and chaos being an acting-out of the Gnostic creation story? I don't know if it was on this forum, or some theory page (yes, I'm a dork...) If so, that would put chaos as the literal Jesus, come back to the material plane to rescue Sophia (his wife) from being trapped as she was since the start of creation...? I haven't had a chance to fully delve into Gnostic studies, but I believe it was something like this.
It would make a lot of sense. Why chaos asked 'where is the real you sleeping' (Japanese version). And the 'real' KOS-MOS we see briefly in the trailer has darkened skin as well, which just kinda situates it back to Biblical times a little. Besides, they're so opposite of one another, and from my understanding in Gnosticism (as well as other religions) the masculine and feminine complete one another.
I'm rambling. If I come across the website I read this theory on again (if it wasn't this forum, I probably have it bookmarked), then I'll post the link for youse guys in case you happen to be a religion nerd like me. XD
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Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:19 pm
I like the Jesus theory goin on here. A very good and unique view.
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am
Baseballman13 I like the Jesus theory goin on here. A very good and unique view. It is fairly unique, if they try and pull a literal Jesus. I'm studying for my major right now (Religion), and the past year have focused on Jesus in fiction, and film. (that's the class title o_O) I can't think of anything we covered that wasn't either Jesus in his true time period, and story direct from the Gospels...or some sort of Transfiguration, where the character just ALLUDES to Jesus. Sure, Xenosaga is more Gnostic, but still...
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:18 pm
Quote: The thing that I've come to wonder about, though, is something to do with the whole party. Now, there are 13 Zohar; one for each apsotle and one for Jesus ("mariankind" in episode I, which means roughly "son of mary"). Now, taking into account the rapidly growing party, and chaos' true name, I've started to wonder if maybe chaos will wind up the main character, with 12 party members aiding him. Each member might be assigned to a zohar (like how shion was drawn to the zohar on the bridge of the Woglinde in E.1). This would certainly keep with the theme that seems to be going so far. But it's kinda sad to think they may wind up killing off chaos, though only for a little while if they follow the story further. Still it would make sense. Oh, and something most people don't seem to notice is that the Gnosis are comprised of salt. That seems to me like an allusion to the story of soddem and gamora, where the woman whom looked back was turned into a pillar of salt. yeah, i've read entire topics dedicated to the simbology of it all but, they said that the only think they could figure out was salt- there probably is more, what i've been trying to figure out, is what is the turning back??? it would explain Shion, but since she's the only one whose done it, i can't really tell.
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:13 pm
shojokakumeii00 Abel: Honestly, I can't remember when he's named in either game or even if he actually is, but everyone calls him Abel anyway. He shows up in screencaps for episode 3 so I'm sure we'll find out more about him then. I would be supprised if a Cain showed up at some point too... I'm probably pointing out the obvious, but I know the reason everyone calls that boy Abel. It goes back to the Xenosaga vs -Gears thing. In Xenogears, Abel was the first incarnation of the 'Contact,' a boy who made contact with the Zohar, and recieved it's power. He was the only survivor of a ship wreck that happened 10,000 years before Xenogears took place. Originally, everyone suspected Xenosaga to be parts 1-4 leading up to Xenogears, which ended by pronouncing itself part 5. In Xenogears original timeline, episode one was supposed to take place on the space ship that crashed. People thought that was Xenosaga ep.1. So when they saw that boy in the Trailers for Ep.1, everyone just knew that it had to be Abel. The fact is, even Namco called him Abel the first time they showed the trailer and answered questions, but later denied saying it, and denied that he was the Abel from Xenogears. Still, the name seems to have stuck.
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:21 pm
well, his name is abel, i think the only reason they're denying it is because of copyrights and all that other hoopla- everyone wants it to be a remake besides- if you've played them both as much as i have you notice some things. and there are the obvious ones, like this- Quote: Bart to Fei: "Promise me, Promise me you'll come back" MOMO to Rubedo: "Promise me, Promise me you'll come back" Bart to Shitan {i think}: "He promised... he promised he'd come back" MOMO to... Shion???: "He promised... he promised he'd come back." both of these were rather close to the end of the game.
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:28 am
*spoilers for EpIII* Highlight to read.
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this already, I didn't read through all that text, but chaos is actually half of God. He is the Anima (or Animus, I can't remember) and Maria (KOSMOS) is the other. She split themself into two parts to control his power, so yeah, he's God.
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:33 pm
last time i checked
SPOILERS for EPPY 3
chaos was the 'reset' button and Wilhelm was trying to stop that from happening, Shion, KOSMOS and T-ELOS were the body mind and .... something {soul/spirit?} of Maria
or at least, that's what someone else told me.
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