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 Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:19 pm
It occured to me the other day that, in a round about way, Sirius is responsible for Voldemort's return.
He escaped from Azkaban because he saw Peter could do something to Harry. The fact was, Peter wasn't going to. Peter was perfectly content to hide forever and have people to feed him and keep him safe.
Peter could have acted, but wasn't going to. Then he heard of Sirius's escape, and paniced. The threat of Sirius forced him back to Voldemort, where he was then forced to return to his natural body.
So, because Sirius wanted revenge, Voldemort returned.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:51 pm
It's Peter's fault because he chose to join Voldemort in the first war. If he remained properly loyal, then the series would have taken a different but similar turn. If Peter didn't act so cowardly, on his own side like Sirus said, Lily and James would be alive. Sirius would have never been put into Azkaban in the first place, which instigated the events of PoA.
Then Voldemort would have been bodily present all those years, so many more would have died. So Peter in some crazy, twisted way helped directly with Voldemort's downfall and rebirth. In that same line of thought Peter did save innocent lives in a twisted sense, but helped Voldemort come back more terrible and powerful than before.
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:59 pm
However, if Sirius and James would have treated Peter better in school, he probably wouldn't have chosen to join Voldemort. He was obviously treated poorly by all those involved. Sirius especilly was good and dragging his confidence through the mud (see "Snape's Worst Memory" in OotP).
Perhaps, to lure Peter to his side, the Dark Lord used flattery. Made Peter feel important in a way his "friends" did not.
Isn't it logical to want to get out of a bad situation and into one that- at least appears- better?
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:08 pm
That does make sense and could go along with why Voldemort let Peter "assist" Snape in Spinner's End. On the other hand, Peter was always in the shadows of James and Sirius and otherwise been like Snape. I know, repeated aruguemt, the latter one but it's true. Peter would have been teased constantly if it weren't for James and Sirius; but maybe he did get teased in first year by Sirius and James.
Peter is selfish, and only joined Voldemort becuase Voldemort was apparently in the lead and about to wipe out the Order.
Have to go to bed now because it's 1am where I am, so I'm a bit tired and confused and not going to make much sense now sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:11 pm
Well if we are going with this kind of logic lets blame Merope for using the love potion on Tom Riddle Sr. and giving birth to Voldemort. Also you can't blame Sirius and James for how Peter turned out, he was the one who made the choice for him, just like he made the choice to rejoin Voldemort. Sirius didn't make him go hunting for him. Sirius is partially responsible at the most because he influenced Peter's decisions but Peter alone can decide for Peter
Edit- This isn't ment to sound as rude as it does. sweatdrop
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:36 am
This could turn into a real "the chicken or the egg" debate. I can see the beginning of it already. The thing is, though, that even without Petigrew, Voldemort would have returned to power. Crouch Jr. would have fought the Imperius Curse that his father had over him in the same ways, and would have sought Voldemort and found him. I would imagine, too, with a great deal more efficiency than Petigrew.
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Toothsome Conversationalist
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:02 pm
SweetMelissa This could turn into a real "the chicken or the egg" debate. I can see the beginning of it already. The thing is, though, that even without Petigrew, Voldemort would have returned to power. Crouch Jr. would have fought the Imperius Curse that his father had over him in the same ways, and would have sought Voldemort and found him. I would imagine, too, with a great deal more efficiency than Petigrew. He didn't get out, however, until Peter and Voldemort managed to "subdue" his father, so I don't know that that can really be used.
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:13 pm
But you see Barty Jnr said that he was growing less susceptable to his father's spell as time wore on, more aware. So there was always the possibility that he would break free.
And I blame the media. 3nodding
Or if not the media, then Salazar Slytherin. He was the ultimate author of all the wizard prejudice against muggles, or one of the main ones. And since he is Voldemort's ancestor, then his mother and father, and whoever they rented the hotel from, are also to blame. biggrin
Sybill Trelawney. You're all forgetting her. Her prophecy killed Lily and James. Harry wouldn't be an orphan if it wasn't for her. So I blame her too. blaugh
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:23 pm
I don't think that Slytherin invented pureblood prejudice, but that he was the first major supporter. I agree with SweetMelissa that Crouch Jr. would have revived Voldemort since his resistance was increasing. On the other hand, if Peter remained loyal to the Order then Frank and Alice Longbottom would have never been tortured. That is because DEs did it only because they though that the Longbottoms might have info on the location of Voldemort because they were part of the Order I think (correct me if I'm wrong). Then Crouch Jr. would have never been in jail. It comes down to the endless circle that could be traced from the beginning of the human race. Basically, it all really doesn't come down to Voldemort, but to the prejudice that he supports.
Can I post something about why I think Crouch Sr. is against the Dark Arts and why Crouch Jr is a DE when his father is so totally against them (relating to the pureblood mania and I'm not sure if it's on topic)?
P.s. Basil_Hallward, it's not rude at all. I was writing that at 1am and really tired so I wasn't thinking very well.
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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:33 pm
You know, I have no idea why they thought Frank and Alice would know where Voldemort was.
Maybe Frank was one of Dumbledore's "many useful spies".
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:27 pm
This is really one of those things that will never have a deffinate answer. There are more people "at fault" for Voldemort's return than I think we could ever even know existed. Many people did there part to bring him back. RegulusofSlytherin You know, I have no idea why they thought Frank and Alice would know where Voldemort was. Maybe Frank was one of Dumbledore's "many useful spies". Dumbledore had many usefull spies? I must have missed that. I'll have to agree with flying_wings and SweetMelissa on the "Voldemort would have come back anyway" front. It would have happened anyway. Some loyal Death Eater was bound to find him eventually, he could live forever as a floating spirit thing right? Peter wasn't even looking that hard and he found him. His return was inevidable, it doesn't really matter who's fault his return is, what really matters is that he did return.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:48 pm
I know. I was mostly just putting it up for the sake of debating.
And yes, it says many. I just can't find my PoA book to prove it right now. It's in the chapter The Marauders Map though.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:11 pm
RegulusofSlytherin I know. I was mostly just putting it up for the sake of debating. And yes, it says many. I just can't find my PoA book to prove it right now. It's in the chapter The Marauders Map though. Ah okay *hunts down very worn copy of PoA* Garg, I can't find it. I'll take your word for it. That's very interesting. Does anyone have any guesses on who they were? Dorcas Meadows could fit the bill, she does seem important anyway because Voldemort killed her himself.
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:14 pm
I don't think there is one cause for any of this. It's a combination of many things happening at just the right pace and time to create the outcome that...came. The way I see it, it was going to happen anyway. Even when reading the part where Voldemort returned, I wasn't at all surprised. Bella and her husband could have escaped after Sirius did, then found Voldy and did the same as Pettigrew, with more efficiency and effort.
There are really too many variables to have a definite answer, like Basil said.
And I see why, Reggie :3
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:55 pm
voldemort is back that is all the order need to know to hunt him down and kill him
but I am on the dark lord's side of course.
I am one of his most trusted allies
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