Welcome to Gaia! ::

Character Abusers Anonymous

Back to Guilds

A writing guild for those who like to torment their characters. 

Tags: writing, character abuse, critique 

Reply Character Abusers Anonymous
Meaning? Meaning...? Goto Page: 1 2 3 4 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

When you take the Muse out for a drink, what do you buy her?
  hard liquor
  coffee
  tea
  milk
  gasoline
View Results

bellasaer

Fashionable Seeker

5,050 Points
  • Rebuilder 100
  • Friendly 100
  • V-Day 2011 Event 100
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:52 pm


I'm having a little trouble finding meaning in my story. I like the characters, setting, early plot, everything I've done so far, but... I can't figure out what I'm writing it for, what I hope to inspire in the reader.

So. I pose the question to you: what do you write your story for? What, other than entertainment, do you hope the reader gets out of the story?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:53 pm


I... write-ish for... entertainment purposes, mostly. I find most authors don't put enough effort into their trash, and it shows. I, on the other hand, slave away at it and come up with hopelessly tangled characters and plots, which are in no way redeeming.

As far as meaning goes, Winter's Requiem is about... jack s**t, really. Oh, people contemplate stuff, and Kita goes on about the nature of history and literature, when she's being pretentious and narrating, and there's a bit of deconstruction going on, but there's certainly no message. Some of the individual scenarios might be considered to have meaning, such as the relationship between the personal and the political in Kingdom #1, or the bit with the fountain, but really, you'd only get that if you were taking the whole analysis thing a little far.

History's Conquest could be about the power of inherent order in the universe, and the main trio happen to dwell quite a bit on the ideas of love or something like it, (and I do not mean smarmy romance. Their "love" is only barely romantic) as well as the creation of "lovely monsters" like Kita and Feragel, but again, if you get that, you're officially trying too hard.

The Sum of All Desires reveals... exactly that, or at least what Allemande thinks it is. Oh, and the end of the world, and the fact that... even those who would think of themselves as essentially good people might not try to stop it, especially if they knew how. Or something like that, anyways.

Kita-Ysabell

Distinct Conversationalist


Itzpapalotl_the_Great

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:19 pm


I would say I love having depth in characters as well. Some plots are masked by menial desires wanted by the masses--love, death, hate, agony, etc. . . but I try to find deeper messages. Movies and books get torn apart by editors and publishers only to see the outcome is worse than ever.

Inspire emotion. Make your characters as real as your best friends, know them enough to make someone feel. That's what we're missing in this world. Real, solid people. [I know it doesn't make much sense, people are already solid, but not all people are real.]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:34 am


At this point I guess I'm really aiming for quality in my writing. Quality of style, quality of plot, and quality of characters. I want to make something beautiful, like the inside of a clock.

As for actual meanings, I can't conjecture about my stories' "deeper meanings" without sounding like a cornball. So I won't.

Raincrow
Captain

9,050 Points
  • Survivor 150
  • Healer 50
  • Pie For All! 300

Kita-Ysabell

Distinct Conversationalist

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:00 pm


Ooh! I forgot one! Kita and Feragel are there solely for the purpose of demonstrating the importance of honest doubt. xp

No. Really. They're not. Yes, you could come up with some inner meaning for the whole thing, as I have just done, but... anyone who does really needs a hobby or something. It's a video game about Western Marxist assassins who inadvertently get involved with saving the world. Or not, as it were. But the point is that sticking in some deeper meaning would be ridiculous.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:44 am


I kind of think stories will take care of their own meanings.

Raincrow
Captain

9,050 Points
  • Survivor 150
  • Healer 50
  • Pie For All! 300

jestingly.yours

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:08 am


I spit on stories with Meaning. Especially if they're meant to be Moving or Inspirational.

Hiss. Claw.

I say the only purpose you should actually try to inject into your story is entertainment.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:30 pm


Raincrow
I kind of think stories will take care of their own meanings.

I agree. I've found that powerful characters in particular will lead me to the message.

If you have to force the meaning into your story, especially by making your narrator proselytize about it, you run the risk of alienating people. But if you write an amazing story with characters that feel real and elicit real emotion, it'll take on its own meaning in the mind of the person who reads it. The truth must dazzle gradually and all that.

That's the kind of story I'd like to write.

Waltzkrieg

Smitten Businessman


VenusRain

Timid Guildswoman

8,350 Points
  • Pie Hoarder by Proxy 150
  • Happy Birthday! 100
  • Beta Forum Regular 0
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:45 pm


I scorn injecting a message into my story. Unless "being a racist jackass in front of the people you are racist against without serious backup will lead to you getting the s**t beaten out of you" counts as a message for that one chapter. But it doesn't change the fact that it's not good for a story to have a meaning. Entertainment things should be for entertainment. 3nodding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:56 pm


Waltzkrieg
If you have to force the meaning into your story, especially by making your narrator proselytize about it, you run the risk of alienating people.


The hilarious thing is, as part of the deconstruction of saccharine video games, Kita does go on and on about some meaning or another. The problem is, she's an unreliable narrator if I ever saw one, and you probably couldn't get whatever she gets out of it if you got half your brain cells lined up properly, but that's Kita for you.

I wouldn't say you should try not to alienate people (Ayn Rand comes to mind) if you do go for meaning, which isn't a bad thing. It's just not what I'm doing. Not that I'm not alienating people, in my own ways, as I'm sure I'm just as biased as everyone else, but that just happens, message or no.

Kita-Ysabell

Distinct Conversationalist


Itzpapalotl_the_Great

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:00 am


VenusRain
I scorn injecting a message into my story. Unless "being a racist jackass in front of the people you are racist against without serious backup will lead to you getting the s**t beaten out of you" counts as a message for that one chapter. But it doesn't change the fact that it's not good for a story to have a meaning. Entertainment things should be for entertainment. 3nodding

Somewhat agreed. Entertainment should be entertainment, but even Beauty & the Beast had a message. Characters can be racist, but they can't stay that way. Development is a basis on its own, needing people to change from one thing to the next within the pages. There may not be need for the message, which is where the entertainment comes through, but people won't feel good unless there's something to which they can relate. smile
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:25 am


Quote:
Characters can be racist, but they can't stay that way.

Why not?

Besides, everyone is racist, and the more someone claims to not be racist, the more racist they probably are. Like my university, which gives special scholarships to people of Native American descent or African heritage, in order to "build diversity." Also known as RACISM.

jestingly.yours


Itzpapalotl_the_Great

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:59 am


jestingly.yours
Quote:
Characters can be racist, but they can't stay that way.

Why not?

Besides, everyone is racist, and the more someone claims to not be racist, the more racist they probably are. Like my university, which gives special scholarships to people of Native American descent or African heritage, in order to "build diversity." Also known as RACISM.

They can go to either being more racist, or take half away, but you're right--everyone's a little bit racist. :3 Characters have to go Somewhere, though. They can't just stay at one level throughout the entire book otherwise why are we reading the story?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:44 pm


I would like to argue that there is such a thing as a static character. Granted, static characters have a tendency to die at the end of the story... But then there's always Howl, from HMC. He starts the story as a selfish, vain, dishonest, womanizing b*****d. He finishes the story as a selfish, vain, dishonest b*****d, and the only thing that's changed about him is that he can now "properly" fall in love and is no longer a womanizer. But that's something that happens to him, not an active change he makes in himself. There is no Moral of the Story as far as Howl's development is concerned (except maybe "don't catch a falling star"). At the end of the book, he's still a pretty terrible person, all things considered, and almost impossible to live with. And that's okay.

I could also argue that racist characters can stay racist...it's just that in our culture that's not strictly considered "socially acceptable," which tosses you into the realm of presenting your character in such a way that your audience would want to keep reading about them. If you can write a racist character who stays racist and yet keeps the reader engaged, well, I guess you're "allowed" to do that.

Raincrow
Captain

9,050 Points
  • Survivor 150
  • Healer 50
  • Pie For All! 300

Charlie_The_Bad

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:28 pm


I think you're "allowed" to get away with anything that sells books. Take Roland the Last Gunslinger, for example. He changes not one single whit between the first page and the last of that series. And that's the point of the character; it's integral to the story that he doesn't change. Everybody else changes, he doesn't.
Reply
Character Abusers Anonymous

Goto Page: 1 2 3 4 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum