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What kind of bow hold do you use?
  galamian
  russian
  franco- belgian
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Shadow_Pyromancer

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:39 pm


What kind of bow hold do you have? What do you think is the most perfect kind of bow hold? Itzhak Perlman has the Galamian, and performs the Paganini Caprice No.1 flawlessly (except maybe a little too fast) , but i have noticed that violinists with the russian hold like Heifetz have trouble doing ricochet smoothly. On Heifetz's recording, the notes sound a little choppy...due to the extremely curved index finger, and high pinky. I was taught the galamian in middle- early highschool, but now i am being taught the franco-blegian style by my teacher, the very awsome Phillip Lewis.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:29 pm


Wha!
You really know what you're talking about!
For myself, I'm sorry to say, has only started taking private lessons last year, so technically, I've studied the violin for a year and a half. Not much considering I've started the dreaded Bach Partita in E major. I also do not have a long enough pinky, which is really a great disadvantage.
All in all, I never particularly knew there to be various types of bow holds. So . . . uh, yeah, I dunno. sweatdrop

Tokgabi


Shadow_Pyromancer

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:32 pm


Hye-sang
Wha!
You really know what you're talking about!
For myself, I'm sorry to say, has only started taking private lessons last year, so technically, I've studied the violin for a year and a half. Not much considering I've started the dreaded Bach Partita in E major. I also do not have a long enough pinky, which is really a great disadvantage.
All in all, I never particularly knew there to be various types of bow holds. So . . . uh, yeah, I dunno. sweatdrop
lol...it's ok. i just recently learned about it in depth. Your pinky doesnt allways have to be touching the bow. Many violinists DO have a bit of a short pinky (especially those of German and Polish background)...but with a refined bow hold, you can touch the wood and use it to your advantage. That is very impressive that you are starting the Partita in E major after only a year and a half. I loved learning that song. Be sure to get hilary hahn's recording of it (it's AWSOME). If you have any questions about that song i would love to help you biggrin . Good luck!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:25 pm


I just realized today, in fact, that I hold my right elbow up extremely high and that's what makes my hold look Russian.
Well, I'm not. I use a shoulder rest with my bow grip relaxed and pulled back, as opposed to, forward, leaning over the rubber grip of the bow. My bow is utter crap in quality . . . I want coloured bow hair - anyway!
I was referring to the left-hand disadvantage of a short little finger. And my fingers are thin and boney. Boney make work nicely, but the thinness greatly hinders the barring of two strings with the same finger.

In short, it sucks.

Thank you for the offer, though, in your help. I really may take you up on that one day since I learn by ear . . . altogether, I'm extremely unorthodox. 3nodding In a sense, I'm mildly proud of that. I think I've typed enough, now.

Tokgabi


Kalile Alako

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:08 pm


Over the summer I had a teacher for a festival tell me that my bow hold was completely atrocious and wrong, and that I was a hopeless violinist.

Later I learned that my bow hold was just Russian. lol

I've kind of fixed that now, relaxing my hold on the bow a little and moving my index finger back so that I'm not pressing down on the bow with my second knuckle. Other than that... I have only been taking lessons for two years, so I am also somewhat uneducated as to technical things that other people of (if I may flatter myself) my level know because they've been playing longer.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:52 pm


Kalile Alako
Over the summer I had a teacher for a festival tell me that my bow hold was completely atrocious and wrong, and that I was a hopeless violinist.

Later I learned that my bow hold was just Russian. lol

I've kind of fixed that now, relaxing my hold on the bow a little and moving my index finger back so that I'm not pressing down on the bow with my second knuckle. Other than that... I have only been taking lessons for two years, so I am also somewhat uneducated as to technical things that other people of (if I may flatter myself) my level know because they've been playing longer.

Ah. Well, I dunno. Some of the best players use the Russian bow hold and I actually find it to be easier to use when playing spiccato. But, man, I really am not one to decide those things especially when I barely know a thing. I still think the piano is easier to play. At least it is physically.

Tokgabi


iviary

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:44 pm


I really don't have a clue.
And I'm somewhat ashamed to say that since I've stopped taking private lessons, my bow hold has gone somewhat by the wayside. I play much more fiddle than I do violin, and really, a perfect bow hold of one form or another seems to make it more difficult than if I just relax a bit. I often catch myself with my pinky floating above the bow instead of doing its job. The ring finger is even known to hover above the bow as well. :/ I try to keep them in check during orchestra, fairly successfully.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:35 am


Quote:
You can change the kind of violin you have, but if you are stuck with a bad voice, then you can play on ANY violin and sound bad.
You should also know that when i say "you" I was talking generally...this wasn't directed at YOU rolleyes

Shadow_Pyromancer


[Strawberry.Fields]

PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:30 pm


What's the difference between the different bow holds?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:19 pm


I think it's the position of your index finger against the bow stick. Russian is when your second knuckle is resting against the stick, and I think Belgian (Or so my Bulgarian teacher told me) is when your first knuckle is resting against the stick... my bow hold is now somewhere in between the two. Very comfy.

Kalile Alako


iviary

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:27 pm


Justoman
iviary
I play much more fiddle than I do violin, and really, a perfect bow hold of one form or another seems to make it more difficult than if I just relax a bit.
a perfected bowhold SHOULD be comfortable. Getting out of the habit of a bad bowhold won't be...but a truly perfected bowhold is meant for comfort and to show off the true sound of your violin. The violin is just an instrument, but the bow is your voice. You can change the kind of violin you have, but if you are stuck with a bad voice, then you can play on ANY violin and sound bad.
It may not have been intended that way, but that really came off as rather rude. Thanks for the lecture. I'm not intending to pursue a professional violin career. I play fiddle because I love it, and I am actually quite good at it. I don't know if you've ever really watched many excellent fiddlers, but a great quantity of them are self-taught. Their wacky bow-holds hold some of them back, but actually, after experimenting with some of their styles of holding the bow, I can see why they hold them that way. If I'm trying to play some spicatto excerpt for orchestra, or a lyrical singing melody; no, I don't want to hold it in that manner. But if I'm trying to dig into the strings and produce a harsh tone for a tune for a set dance, then sure, why not do something to make it easier? Just because something isn't the established, accepted, publicly deemed "correct" style of doing something does not mean it is wrong. And I'm not looking for another lecture if you care to disagree.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:51 am


iviary
Justoman
iviary
I play much more fiddle than I do violin, and really, a perfect bow hold of one form or another seems to make it more difficult than if I just relax a bit.
a perfected bowhold SHOULD be comfortable. Getting out of the habit of a bad bowhold won't be...but a truly perfected bowhold is meant for comfort and to show off the true sound of your violin. The violin is just an instrument, but the bow is your voice. You can change the kind of violin you have, but if you are stuck with a bad voice, then you can play on ANY violin and sound bad.
It may not have been intended that way, but that really came off as rather rude. Thanks for the lecture. I'm not intending to pursue a professional violin career. I play fiddle because I love it, and I am actually quite good at it. I don't know if you've ever really watched many excellent fiddlers, but a great quantity of them are self-taught. Their wacky bow-holds hold some of them back, but actually, after experimenting with some of their styles of holding the bow, I can see why they hold them that way. If I'm trying to play some spicatto excerpt for orchestra, or a lyrical singing melody; no, I don't want to hold it in that manner. But if I'm trying to dig into the strings and produce a harsh tone for a tune for a set dance, then sure, why not do something to make it easier? Just because something isn't the established, accepted, publicly deemed "correct" style of doing something does not mean it is wrong. And I'm not looking for another lecture if you care to disagree.
Never once did I say "correct bowhold". It appears as though you are being rather defensive about this subject. I did nothing but give helpful advice to you and told you about the importance of a refined bow hold. You admitted that you don't have a perfected bowhold. You should try and not take things so personally.

Shadow_Pyromancer


Tokgabi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:37 pm


Kalile Alako
I think it's the position of your index finger against the bow stick. Russian is when your second knuckle is resting against the stick, and I think Belgian (Or so my Bulgarian teacher told me) is when your first knuckle is resting against the stick... my bow hold is now somewhere in between the two. Very comfy.

Ah, really? I thought that a Russian bow hold was if your fingers were all close together with your wrist slanted upwards in the direction of the tip of the bow. neutral
God, such unreliable sources, I have. stressed
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 2:31 pm


Hye-sang
Kalile Alako
I think it's the position of your index finger against the bow stick. Russian is when your second knuckle is resting against the stick, and I think Belgian (Or so my Bulgarian teacher told me) is when your first knuckle is resting against the stick... my bow hold is now somewhere in between the two. Very comfy.

Ah, really? I thought that a Russian bow hold was if your fingers were all close together with your wrist slanted upwards in the direction of the tip of the bow. neutral
God, such unreliable sources, I have. stressed

It could be that too, honestly. I was told mine was Russian when I slanted my index finger farther over the stick, but that doesn't mean that they were referring to my index finger; they could have meant the position of my hand like you were describing, and I interpreted it wrongly.


Iviary, I don't think he meant to imply that your bowhold was wrong; he was just saying that it should be comfortable. If it's not... by its very nature, it is not correct. At least, that is the tone that I detected behind the words; you seemed as though you were asking for help.

Kalile Alako

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