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Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:04 pm
I have seen the characters and have one major question. Why are the women not wearing masks, but the men are?
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:25 am
That's a good question... I have no clue lol But, I'd also like to add, all the female characters seem weak or relatively useless. Which kinda sucks really...
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:06 am
I would think it may have something to do with Moores choice of characters, and the universe in which they reside. Moore, unable to pick heroes from the DC stable (as it would have ruined other brands), he would still have to apply hero rules in his Watchmen universe.
I am trying to think of a female hero in any universe (DC, Marvel etc), that is a 'goodie' and is masked.
Wonder Woman, Storm, Aeon Flux, Supergirl (but was there?, same goes with batgirl, although she's masked), Electra Woman and DynaGirl, Ultraviolet.
Arrggghhhhh. I just thought of something. One sounds like a good reason, one not so good. I was just thinking ok, don't shoot the messenger (but I am influenced by the tv show madmen about advertising in the 1950's).
First,I thought it obvious. Women have no need to mask themselves, as every deed can only come from (and remember, men once considered women as less equal), an altruistic point of view. Like possessing a 'lasso of truth'. And remember, she was using it on men, subtley suggesting all men lie. That women don't lie, that they are always serving for the common good.
Bad Femme Fatales, such as Catwoman, Poison Ivy are bad girls, taking risks, seducing men. WW never did. Neither did Jean Gray. And maybe it became fantasy, because the bad committed is done anonomously.
Men do bad things all the time. War, Murder and s**t. Some men doing good things know their actions could be as easily considered bad. Depending on where you stand.
To remain unmasked, means you have nothing to hide.
Now the second reason could be, and Moore may have been suggesting (my opinion), the paradox of the female hero. Now remember, man has been quite the mysogynist in the past, and that heroes were created some 70 years ago:
That a Female Heroine, is a symbol of honesty, strength, intelligence, purity. Yet, as pointed out by Moore, dressed almost (in the novel, lingerie, the movie fetish), almost indicating a 'bad girl' breaking out. Or a good girl on the edge.
Sexy.
And Dangerous. Considering men still get the messages women display wrong all the time. (Because they werent socialised that way), Silk is sexy, and in the examples Moore uses, just asking for it. Remember Sally reminses good times in that Tijiuana Comic. She was considered a sex-symbol, and to some men, a womans heroics were secondry.
Men can think bad thoughts. And act on those mixed messages. Shoot first, ask questions last.
Comedian did, and saw no problem with it. No means Yes. No it doesn't. But the heorine, in an instant, becomes the victim. Purity soiled. All those good deeds wiped away but one selfish act. A man did that to Sally Jupiter. Turned her into victim. And he has to wear a mask to hide behind.
Laurie never hid. Though, she did what she was told to do. And not to disobey. Another mysogynistic viewpoint. How long has it been since they struck 'to honour and obey' out of wedding vows?
So, from a freudian viewpoint, Laurie is stuffed too. She has 'Dad' issues. She was never told who her father was, and unknowingly worked side by side with him. Gees, it almost appears that Comedian was seducing his own daughter. And that he had put two and two together.
And the only man who could help her was blue, and emotionally impotent.
Go figure.
Sorry, I do go on. Idk. Could it be?
Edit: i am just rolling around ideas in my head. It is so difficult to know exactly without going through a whole lot of text, as into the whole hero thing, how society considered so many different things, including pirates, I mean they pop up freaking everywhere. I could even consider men still have a long way to go to figure s**t out. And if Moore can examine the tortured realities of what it is to be a hero, then he bloody well examined what he thought the role women played, and his rebuttal within his work. There.
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:07 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:22 am
Yes, but who knows? I am multitasking my brain, and all the threads are moulding into one. And I begin to go on about athiesm in a meaning of life thread, and who knows what.....I should let it all sink in.
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:29 am
Horace Burtons Ghost Yes, but who knows? I am multitasking my brain, and all the threads are moulding into one. And I begin to go on about athiesm in a meaning of life thread, and who knows what.....I should let it all sink in. but isn't life a combination of everything that could, will, and has come to, exist?
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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:28 pm
There is also the fact that the women did nit do as much as the men and all the characers with masks were messed if you notice.......there seems to be more stability in the female characters but its hard to compare because the female characters really are not as well developed.
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:58 am
[Alt] Horace Burtons Ghost Yes, but who knows? I am multitasking my brain, and all the threads are moulding into one. And I begin to go on about athiesm in a meaning of life thread, and who knows what.....I should let it all sink in. but isn't life a combination of everything that could, will, and has come to, exist? let me think about this. If I got you right, you are you saying that life is nothing but future potential, and that the past is nothing but shed potential?
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:04 am
RanDOm_ChicK01111 There is also the fact that the women did nit do as much as the men and all the characers with masks were messed if you notice.......there seems to be more stability in the female characters but its hard to compare because the female characters really are not as well developed. If you are to examine the masked adventurers in the Watchmen Universe, Moore has written heroes with all their flaws laid out before us. None had gone so far before, mny only scratching the surface. And slap bang in the middle of the 1980's, we have Reagan, and Thatcher. Hardcore Melonfarmers (to pinch the 'sweardub' for another word in 'Repo Man', cult classic). All the heroes mentioned have psychological issues not dealt with.
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:00 am
In my opinion, which is just speculation, the reason for the women of Watchmen never having to conceal their identities was because they had no need to. Everyone knew who Sally Jupiter was - that was the point! She wanted to be seen as a celebrity, and as such needed everyone to know who she was. Similarly, it is common knowledge that Laurie is her daughter, so concealing her identity would be pointless. Silhouette... hm, she puzzles me a little; mainly because so little of her past and motivations are revealed. She's more sexy and dangerous than the other women, and in true moral punishment faces a grim end. Perhaps the stigma of being a female crimefighter is not so great as for a male crimefighter? It's one thing to dress up all sexy and take down the petty criminals for a little limelight, and another to don a pair of tights and dress up like a child... I suppose the women were more free to do so without looking ridiculous.
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:21 am
GuruLazer In my opinion, which is just speculation, the reason for the women of Watchmen never having to conceal their identities was because they had no need to. Everyone knew who Sally Jupiter was - that was the point! She wanted to be seen as a celebrity, and as such needed everyone to know who she was. Similarly, it is common knowledge that Laurie is her daughter, so concealing her identity would be pointless. Silhouette... hm, she puzzles me a little; mainly because so little of her past and motivations are revealed. She's more sexy and dangerous than the other women, and in true moral punishment faces a grim end. Perhaps the stigma of being a female crimefighter is not so great as for a male crimefighter? It's one thing to dress up all sexy and take down the petty criminals for a little limelight, and another to don a pair of tights and dress up like a child... I suppose the women were more free to do so without looking ridiculous. yeah, i suppose if i was doing all that hardwork in such a skimpy outfit, i'd want the credit.
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Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:22 am
Horace Burtons Ghost [Alt] Horace Burtons Ghost Yes, but who knows? I am multitasking my brain, and all the threads are moulding into one. And I begin to go on about athiesm in a meaning of life thread, and who knows what.....I should let it all sink in. but isn't life a combination of everything that could, will, and has come to, exist? let me think about this. If I got you right, you are you saying that life is nothing but future potential, and that the past is nothing but shed potential? in a broad sense
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:02 am
GuruLazer Perhaps the stigma of being a female crimefighter is not so great as for a male crimefighter? It's one thing to dress up all sexy and take down the petty criminals for a little limelight, and another to don a pair of tights and dress up like a child... I suppose the women were more free to do so without looking ridiculous. I wouldnt see it as a stigma. Sure Silk I's focus was more on her celebrity, rather than on her heroics, but she didnt choose Miss Universe. But she would certainly fit the archetype of 'celebrity seeking'. But they all did. Except Manhattan and Laurie. She was being to be a rebelling teenager when we first meet her. These are expectations the kids of famous people try to fulfil. To exceed expectations already set high. And what you say about men and women donning 'kids clothes', you are right in a way. Moore points it out all through the novel. He saw the idiocy in the dressing up, and that's why he had (what I consider) lame heroes. I like the tick, because it is funny. But mothman in a serious setting? Hooded Justice, a wrestlers name more than a heroes. But now, 25 years or so after the watchmen, we have heroes that don't have to look silly. 'Superman' would haveto find it difficult when you are putting him side by side with say Neo from the Matrix, who only needs a suit, or a groovy leather jacket. And a pair of shades. Movies like Ironman, Batman are remakes of hero movies created before Watchmen. I don't know what point I am making now. Yes, costumes are childish, and if I ever considered becoming a masked adventurer (I have been bitten by a whitetail spider, but sadly no a radioactive one), I would find it difficult coming up with a costume OR a name. Possibly ' Milkman. Because I like Milk.
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