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#4: What Should Your Spirituality do for You?

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havenne17
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:15 pm


What's that? My religion should actually provide something for me? It's not all about my obligations to God(s), priests and other people? It's not about morals and rules and stuff I can and cannot do??
Well, it might be those things and it may be why we no longer follow [fill in the blank]. Religion can seem like a box we're in while letting other people know something about us by virtue of the label.
But is there something other than responsibilities that should be dispensed by religion, or, as I prefer to call it, your chosen spirituality?

Oh, and I found out that subject titles seem to have a character limit.....that's why it's cut short.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:06 pm


I tend to think of 'Spirituality' as those ideas that roll around in my head, that guide my feet each day, that shape my attitudes. On the other hand, Religion is that thing we do in groups, that has a Book, that has rules. To answer the question of 'What should your Spiritual Path do for You?' perhaps we need to start with what goes into a "Path" just as we would go into what makes a "Religion." Someplace in my travels I know that I came across a specific, scholarly definition of 'religion' that summed it up neatly but those words have successfully escaped me. I have too many books.....
Think of Spirituality as 'Personal Religion' for a moment; what does it do? Well, it explains where we came from, what we're doing here and where we're going. If someone out there is guiding our hands/feet or sitting in judgment of us, religion explains that, too, gives us names, labels, dates, holidays, rituals, all sorts of good stuff.

But.
I regard all Creation myths as metaphorical, I won't really know what is beyond the Door of Death until I get there (though I do have some experiences that sort of shed some light), and the judgment of my actions is, eventually, a personal exercise. My Spiritual 'Map' has several places marked 'Yet to be Explored' and I am at peace with that - I don't 'Know' everything and I have learned that neatness doesn't count in Belief (loose ends are acceptable).
So, what does my spirituality do for me? It gives me a context, a place to be, a way to approach the World, both of people and of Nature. I have an order of Belief that guides my steps and certain ideas that help me explain what happens. Enough of my 'why?' questions are answered for me to feel, well, is fulfilled the word I want?
What place does the group spiritual experience hold for me? The Circle exists to raise energy for a common purpose, whether worship or working or both. It can be a truly wondrous experience but can also be about controlling people and enforcing codes of behavior. My ideal Circle exists for mutual support and the sharing of ideas, ideals and growth. There are times in my life when I attained this ideal but those experiences are few - people, after all, have their own interests and own failings. My egalitarian model for a Circle is rarely used - most pagan organizations have structure and hierarchy and degrees. Negotiating for status is not on my spirituality checklist.
So, here I am.

havenne17
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havenne17
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:14 pm


While I expect my path to have challenges I also expect my spiritual path to comfort me. I want to know that goodness is rewarded and evil has its debts. While I do not believe in a "hell" I can bring myself to think of our path over many lifetimes being one of learning....until we are ready to step off the Wheel.

I don't want rules but a certain measure of order and explanation is good, I think. Not too much, before you scratch your head, but, perhaps, a tiny wandering thread of logic to existence.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:32 am


So, I asked myself, returning to a loose end a couple posts ago, what constitutes an official "Religion"? This can be important from the standpoint of recognition: it sure helps when your group is applying for tax-exempt status here in the US. When I google "what constitutes a religion" I get some interesting things.
It seems that the state of Texas denied church status to the Universalists, about 2004, because they had no belief in a Supreme Being, using the argument that belief in deity differentiates between 'religion' and 'philosophy'. I didn't look up how that one turned out.
Newsweek magazine has a continuing series called "On Faith"; here's a quote from J. Brent Walker:
"In trying to trace the contours of “religion,” lower federal courts often have looked to three factors: (1) Does the belief system address fundamental and ultimate questions of life? (2) Is it comprehensive and pervasive in one’s own life? (3) Are there observable, formal and outward signs of a spiritual reality? Although laudable, this attempt to fashion a flexible definition of religion really is not much help. (If you have been to a Bruce Springsteen concert, you’ll know this definition could describe the Church of St. Bruce!) Even a generous attempt to police the boundaries of “religion” makes for dicey decisions."
Again, we are looking at legal definitions. Bruce Springsteen as deity? Hmmmmm. Anyway, the article I lifted this from was, first, looking at "Religion" versus "Cult". There are lots of cans of worms just waiting to be opened.
I found a wonderful thread over on About.com: Alternative Religions:
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ab-altreligion&tid=3164
I actually googled in to page 2 or 3 but went back to the beginning.
I was intrigued by the idea of having a 'religion' but then also a "Way", as was discussed in this referenced thread: your religion might be Hindu but your Way might be Buddhist and this is not contradictory or incompatible. This might be analogous to being a Wiccan when considering Religion but a witch or a shaman when considering Way.
I was also intrigued by the thoughts expressed in connection with Mormonism, in that they apparently believe in an ancient civilization that is not otherwise referenced elsewhere. I would need someone who has been a member of this faith to explain how this works - do they believe this civilization existed or do they recognize it as a mythical construct? I would put this alongside Dianic pagans who often express belief in an ancient Matriarchal society, often citing certain archeological discoveries and, thus, inspiring some heated debate.
From there I went on to explore the About.com: Alternative Religions forum as a whole and then on to About.com: Paganism/Wicca. Guess I did the usual Internet surf thing, find a few things I'm looking for but then see other interesting stuff and head on out.

havenne17
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havenne17
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:04 pm


As a continuing effort on this topic I took a trip over to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Whatever you may think of Wiki, this isn't a half bad start on answering the question, what are the elements necessary for a religion. As I have posted earlier in the thread, a legal definition of 'religion' has real consequences, as when determining tax status in the United States.

Some good passages from Wiki:

"Religious scholars generally agree that writing a single definition that applies to all religions is difficult or even impossible, because all people examine religion with some kind of critical eye, and the term is therefore fraught with ideological consequences for anyone who might want to construct a universal definition."
"Sociologists and anthropologists tend to see religion as an abstract set of ideas, values, or experiences developed as part of a cultural matrix. For example, in Lindbeck's Nature of Doctrine, religion does not refer to belief in "God" or a transcendent Absolute. Instead, Lindbeck defines religion as, "a kind of cultural and/or linguistic framework or medium that shapes the entirety of life and thought… it is similar to an idiom that makes possible the description of realities, the formulation of beliefs, and the experiencing of inner attitudes, feelings, and sentiments.”[11] According to this definition, religion refers to one's primary worldview and how this dictates one's thoughts and actions. Thus religion is considered by some sources to extend to causes, principles, or activities believed in with zeal or conscientious devotion concerning points or matters of ethics or conscience, and not necessarily including belief in the supernatural.[12]"

So, it isn't the organization - it is much more belief in a cultural context, how belief influences thought and action.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:52 pm


On the other hand, I know I have read (and I don't recall where) that the basic tenets of a 'religion' do certain things: explain the Creation, have Deity, have Hierarchy and has specific Beliefs. What such a definition does is require that, for recognition, a Religion have doctrine and human organization. Having a Book and History and buildings help in attaining this type of requirements, things that Pagan paths often do not have.
So, we are relegated to 'cult', 'fluff' or similar pejorative marginalizing labels by those who feel that Religion must have these physical characteristics. I suspect that folk who follow religions which have long been organized into churches or temples expect that other Religions look kind of like theirs - they cannot imagine not having God's House and the Book to study. This example is one of the reasons why our first Discussion questions, Where are you From? is important - it shapes our expectations and definitions.

havenne17
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havenne17
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:19 pm


To turn this on its head....if Religion is a construct of culture, how does paganism fit into the modern world? Is any attempt to follow an animist belief system or to recreate ancient practices an exercise in anachronism? How do we reconcile Faith and Culture?

This is one place where I have found that it helps to step outside the box and just ask those basic questions: where did I come from, where am I going, how do I get there? I understand why people pursue the rapturous experience, the energy of frenzied worship. Yet, there is a book entitled, "After the Ecstasy Comes the Laundry." (it's by Jack Kornfield, a Buddhist) What do you do after enlightenment has zapped you? Does life look different, are your questions answered (or at least easier), are you content? I would hate to think that one might become dependent on the excitement of energy-raising.

So how does paganism come into the modern culture? This is one place I have severe differences with any type of Reconstructionism: you cannot (and might not really want to) recreate the culture within which that religion existed, at whatever point in time you are extracting from. And I am willing to ask: are those Gods and Goddesses the same now as they were then? You see, I assume a certain sentience, some sort of life or existence to Deity, as I ask this question. After hundreds, thousands of years are they the same or have they Evolved, also?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:20 pm


Part of what Spirituality might be expected to do for me, a topic that might deserve its own Discussion question, is give me leadership and membership in a congregation. At some point we need to bring up the role of clergy in paganism and the need for a coven, grove or circle. This topic often comes up when we consider the solitary versus the initiated Wiccan. The traditionalists among Wiccans are strict in their belief that the only path to the "true" practice of Wicca is through coven initiation and proper introduction to the mysteries. Those with no access to a coven are out of luck; their spiritual yearnings go unfulfilled. Would you expect your Spiritual path to provide a leader and a group for you?

havenne17
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havenne17
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:19 pm


As practicing an Earth-based spirituality I occasionally ask myself whether the relevance of Neopaganism will fade away, will be impossible to practice in cities, will lose its defining points if we grow away from nature. I would love to ask a Techno pagan how they connect....really.

But, a larger question: how do your beliefs remain relevant in the modern world? A good question for the Reconstructionist crowd, I'm sure, but a point to consider for all of us. Not all Neopagan paths even concern Nature, I must say just to keep the qualifying statements up-to-date. But I feel the need to bridge the gap between that world of dirt and plants and wild out there and the technology, ever-faster modern pace, and the popular culture that surrounds us.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:26 pm


So....how do I do it?
I have worked all my life to achieve my current situation: I have land to steward, fruit bushes, a vegetable plot. I build altars, do rituals to mark those occasions I find important, I live my life in a way I find ethically consistent.
None of this was laid out for me in a scripted creed. I see no overwhelming need to study dead languages or ancient fragments for keys to my very modern spirituality. The face of the divine can, indeed, be female and I spend most of my reverencial work with Goddesses. Mainly, though, I work with local spirits on local issues and mark my seasons with what is right outside my door.

havenne17
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