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 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:43 pm
Alright, well, as you all know by now I'm writing an OCxHiei fan fic. LE GASP! I know, right? Anywho, so my best friend doesn't watch Yu Yu Hakusho, she doesn't like anime, but she's an authoress as well, so we swap stories and she's been reading and helping me plan.
Well, we've been doing some role-play's lately and guess what?
She completely LOATHES Hiei's character. Like to NO end. She thinks he's a complete and utter "jacka**!" EVEN WHEN HE WAS BEING NICE TO HER!
I've told her that he just pads all his observations and compliments with insults but she won't listen to me! She's annoyed to no end that he's a jerk to everyone, even if deep down he's super nice. And even when he TRIES to be nice or considerate or friendly (while still in character, of course ; D ) she STILL thinks he's being a jerk!
So why I post and rant and rave? Well my dear friends, I ask you to please join my quest. Please assist me in showing my friend when an amazing person he is! List why you like Hiei!
And PLEASE don't put "because he's bad-a**" or "because he's so dark and mysterious" we need deep, meaningful reasons why you like Hiei. I'll start.
1) Hiei has a capability that not a lot of people have, to love and care for someone so deeply, that he would cross oceans and mountains on foot for them, that he would let them treat him like crap, and that he would lay down his LIFE for them. He feels that way about Yukina, and I actually think that he'd WANT to do that for anyone close to him, though he probably wouldn't because it would jeopardize his ego, but even then, it's not an ego! It's a fear. And that's what I try to explain to my friend again and again. It's a fear of being taken advantage of. Of being out of control, of himself and the events and surroundings around him.
Alright, someone else next. : )
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:27 am
 Sure he’s got a cape and a theme song…. Wow...I don't think I've EVER seen a Hiei-hater. O_O
No joke. O___O
Hmm...What a totally different case...I love it. XD
Mine is gonna be similar to your's, Havi. sweatdrop Sorry.
2.) Hiei has so much loyalty to the people he trusts, and that his honor code is so deep. That's why he never left the Urameshi Team and/or the Reikai Tentai. And that's why he came back to Yusuke later on, seeing that his....Friend needed help.
I'll think of more when I can.....Sorry crying
…But the brave have a lot more heart than him… 
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:30 am
No thank you much! ANYTHING you put would help IMMENSELY! Btw, I know it's a bit off-topic, but have you been working on that fan fic lately, or did you loose your juice? ; D
3) You have to WORK for Hiei's trust and kindness. He doesn't just GIVE them away like extra change. If you want to be an important part of his life, you have to PROVE that you're a good enough for him, whether it be through strength, an honor code, integrity, or WHATEVER! Sometimes, you just have to stand up to him or to give him the benefit of the doubt or perhaps show him that in order for him accept you. It's like a goal and it gives you a certain amount of significance when you reach it. And referencing back to what Sunshine-Girl said, once you get it, he'll never let you out. He WILL remain loyal to you. And even if you make a mistake, if you're in that group, if you show that you are sorry from the depths of your soul, I don't think he could ever TRULY desert you. It may take him a while to cool off and certain circumstances to show it, but he'd still be there for you. : )
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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:53 pm
Hm. While I do have a list of reasons why I like Hiei, perhaps you're going about this the wrong way. Try an indirect approach:
1) Ask your friend what her definition of a "jerk" is. Find out what qualities go into that, and (more importantly) WHY she finds those qualities repugnant.
2) Find out if there are any mitigating factors -- e.g., if someone is a jerk but is only that way because of a deep-seated trauma, does that make a difference to your friend?
3) If there are any discrepancies between her definition of a jerk and what's actually going on with Hiei, explain them to her, point by point. Take her through his backstory, get right down to the bottom of things with her, and point out the non-jerk things he does (and the things he's a jerk about, but which are actually good deeds). Explain as many of his actions as you can in terms of his long-term motivations, his emotional defenses (that includes his temper), and his honor -- because, really, there's probably less than 5% of his actions as a whole that can't be explained by one of or an overlap of those three things. Work with those mitigating factors from step 2, and see if there's anything your friend is willing to excuse or reconsider under that premise.
In general, and in my experience, you have to figure out why someone thinks a certain way before you can challenge them on it. Simply offering her subjective reasons why he's a great character may not be enough, or it may only get to the point where it evens out, leaving her indifferent to Hiei at best. Often, getting someone to simply understand another person better can help them to overcome base dislike.
And, while I'm here, one of my reasons for liking him:
4) In one word: devotion. You really just have to look at his expression every time Yukina is present to know that it all but physically hurts him to lie to her, but he does it because he thinks she'll be happier that way, even if he isn't. He'll go to any lengths and do anything for her -- getting the Jagan was unimaginably painful, and he never even hesitated.
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:29 pm
I've tried some of you're methods before you posted, which by the way, I can't thank you ENOUGH for doing so, and what she said?
1) "Just because someone isn't a jerk SOME of the time does NOT make them not a jerk. If they're mean MOST of the time I will STILL place them in the category."
2) Me: "You've READ his background, you KNOW what he's been through!" Her: "A lot of people have been through a LOT of things and some of the kindest people I know have been through the worst."
3) Me: "He acts that way because he's afraid. He's afraid of being taken advantage of by others or of events being out of his control." Her: *no answer, rolls eyes and huffs*
I haven't tried the Makaii factor. Demon World emphasizes being dominance over others. However, that still doesn't explain WHY someone would like Hiei?
But really there are many things to like about him, getting a LITTLE superficial here, he can keep someone laughing for days if they'll take a chill pill and not get offended. He comes up with some of the best insults, most menacing threats I've ever HEARD, says things at the EXACTLY RIGHT TIME!
And then just SEEING underneath everything to how FRAGILE he really is underneath everything just breaks my heart. How quickly he'd resort to running away. How quickly he'd just kill someone rather than fight them. How rashly he acts when everything is going into a spiral...
*sighs* This really sucks. : (
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Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:27 pm
What do you mean, she doesn't like him because she thinks he's a jackass? THAT'S HIS APPEAL! Seriously! The number-one reason I like Hiei so much? He's hilarious. It might be that your friend doesn't have the same sense of humor that most of his fans do, or it might be that she takes his jokes too seriously. (For instance, him calling Kuwabara a moron all the time? That's for comic effect. Sure, he isn't exactly in love with Kuwabara, but he respects him, and he has other ways of making Kuwabara feel inadequate if he really wanted to do so.) If she doesn't even like anime, let alone this show, then that's probably another part of her disliking Hiei. borderline_mary's right; if she's never seen the show, she can't know about everything Hiei has survived through. That's my second point on why he's such a great character-- resiliency. Hiei has survived his entire family casting him out, hating him, simply for being born. He never knew any sort of parenting; the most he got was a group of bandits, and the most that can be said about them is that they didn't kill him on sight. He grew up alone, living off the land, with absolutely no ties to what we would consider humanity. Then, he loses his prize possession, finally forming a close friendship with Kurama, after having experienced the absolute worst pain imaginable so that he could merely WATCH his sibling. Add in all the other stuff that happens--failing to take over the human world only to have half of his beliefs about the world turned upside down by a boy who can't pass his algebra test--and Hiei's got quite a biography. Any normal person would have given up long ago. And yet Hiei continues to fight on, basically forever, not abandoning anything (except Yusuke in the Chapter Black saga, but who can blame him when previously he wanted all humans to succumb to demons?) And he can do all this while smirking and making some sarcastic remark. How does that not make him endearing? I really, really don't mean to sound rude about your friend; I'm sure she's really nice. But I think Yu Yu Hakusho takes a certain kind of person to love it this much; hence why it was never all that popular in the states, compared to other stuff. Also, some people (like myself) can be stubborn about some things. For instance, everyone was talking about how great the Pirates of the Caribbean movies were back when they first came out, and I had absolutely no desire to see them. That was fueled by the fact that everyone kept telling me how great they were. It was like the more they wanted me to like them, the more I disliked them. It could be that your friend's kind of experiencing a Hiei-complex--you keep trying to convince her to like him so much that it's having the opposite effect. (No offense to either of you, of course. ^^ ) My response to her first response would be: just because someone is a jerk some of the time does not make him a jerk all of the time. lol. It's like mary said; you really have to know what she means by "jerk." The demon world's psychology of dominance wouldn't make someone like him, it just gives justification for his actions. And you know, when I think about it, that's kind of all we've been doing with this list. Instead of producing reasons to like him, we're simply defending his actions. (Except for what mary was saying.) In the end, though, it comes down to a personality clash, I bet. Some people just don't get along with other people. Your friend sounds like someone who doesn't like mean people. Hiei is mean. That right there is cause enough to dislike him. (Personally, I think mean people are awesome, to an extent, but that's me.) There's a good chance your friend will never really like him, and if that's how it ends up, then you have my sympathies. Also, let's all remember the MST3K/TV Tropes motto: It's just a show, I should really just relax. By the way, sorry I'm so late on this. Busy, and all that...even in summer! Bah!
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Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:48 am
Aw man, no prob! Thanks a bundles for replying and sorry I couldn't reply sooner! My internet was giving me problems. >3>;
Dude, EXACTLY! I LOVE Hiei, for that! You know what, I think you're right, she REALLY just needs to take a chill pill and relax. Seriously, that's what I've learned. And then just laugh.
See, SHE thinks being in a relationship with Hiei is masochistic. *shrugs* I freakin' LOVE it! He's fun to figure out. Keeps things interesting.
She also has an ego, so she does NOT like being talked down to. As we all know, Hiei has a problem with that. ^^;
I guess you guys are right. Some people just DON'T get along well...maybe that's just how it'll have to be. Role-plays are gonna suck now though if she's always storming off in anger and Hiei's attempts at kindness are wasted turned to cool insults. *sighs*
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Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:20 pm
^^ I'm glad we could somewhat help. I can understand why she wouldn't like to be talked down to, or why that would bother her about Hiei. Because that's a lot of his personality, in truth. As for the idea that being in a relationship with Hiei would be masochistic, I am a masochist, so I basically agree with her statement. lol.
Maybe you could find someone else to RP with. Unfortunately, as I don't RP, I can't suggest anyone. I'm such a great help. sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:52 am
Haha! Don't worry about it! Thanks a bunch.
Nah, we just RP for fun and to get ideas for both our stories, so its whatever. : )
I am somewhat of a masochist to, so I think it bothers her that I find Hiei to be so appealing. ^^; But there are specific reasons in the story why my OC likes Hiei, so I don't see what her problem is or how it SHOULD affect me. *shrugs*
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