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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:30 pm
I've been trying to figure out Ultimecia for a while, like why the hell does she have a gf named after Squall's ring? And how the hell does she have it? Is she Squall and Rinoa's love child or something? I've played the game at least 20 times trying to look for hints and I can't find none.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:42 pm
Hm...I'm not really adept at FFViii's storyline (This is more of Ravenwolf's forte), but I'll try and help with what I do know.
The GF she makes is from Squall. She pulled it out of his thoughts. I'm not quiet sure how...but I remember it from many years ago.
When defeated she goes back in time and gives Little Orphan Edea her powers and starts everything over again.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:02 pm
Okay thanks, that clears some of it up.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:13 pm
Okay, let's see... There is a theory out there that she's Ultimecia from the future. From what I know, it pretty much says that she didn't age, being a sorceress, then went crazy when Squall died ('cause not being a sorceress, he did age). After all, the entire point of having a Sorceress's Knight was to keep the sorceresses from becoming corrupt. The idea behind time compression was that if there was no time, they could be together again, but then she didn't realize she was actually fighting Squall... either just because she went crazy, or she didn't recognize him, or she forgot her original motive after so long and only focused on her goal... In any case, it does explain a few things. The ring thing is probably the biggest piece of evidence: Squall does give Rinoa his ring, and you could say that they wouldn't ask you to name it if they weren't hinting at something. It's clear from other things (his necklace, the revolver's blade and case, all the Lionheart/Leonheart stuff) that the lion is his symbol, but the name Griever is only directly associated with the ring and the GF. (The wiki says definitively that the boss is extracted from the ring, but giveth no evidence, so no counting it.) Plus, think of Doomtrain: proof that GFs can be inside not only objects, but yes, rings. It may or may not be a coincidence that it's the same object. This theory also gives her a motive for time compression that ties-in with the rest of the game, particularly what I see as the real focus of the game, Squall and Rinoa's relationship. One more thing: Rinoa and Ultimecia do have very similar facial structures, and the final FMV flashes between their faces a few times, which might be a bit of a hint. There are lots of other little bits that people cite as evidence, but I've said all the really believable ones I know of. Okay, I've been really biased. Time for a little perspective. That theory extrapolates a bit a LOT from what you're actually given in-game. It's based almost entirely on circumstantial evidence and most of the rest is Wild Mass Guessing. A lot of people find Kazuma's explanation a lot more believable. xp I think there was a line that supported her pulling Griever from Squall's thoughts, not his ring, but I honestly can't remember... The most inexplicable thing I can think of if that's the case is how, over time, she could have gained a Russian accent. xd You know what? After all that typing, I could have just linked a bunch of sites where other people argue it. Personally, I think it's exactly the kind of thing that Final Fantasy would do, but the evidence is so incredibly circumstantial that I can't say I believe it. Some of the evidence seems like a stretch to me... like it could be true, but I don't think it's enough to count as evidence. Oh yeah... One more thing. I've read that Word of God has said that the theory's completely untrue... but no citations, so... yeah, I like to think it might be. One mooooore thing! Positively no evidence here, but someone who used to be active in this guild claimed something entirely different: That Quistis is Ultimecia. She also said that all the evidence for it was cut out of the game during editing, so you can't really argue it. sweatdrop I just wanted to mention it. Yay I feel special. I also felt obligated to make this huge post now.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:38 pm
See what I meant? Forte. Raven's. Bada-bing~
Ultimecia being Rinoa is a stretch, but because it's such a stretch...it's possible.
If you look at the two, they are complete opposites/complements/reverses/Shel Silverstein's The Missing Piece. What I'm saying is that Ultimecia could be Rinoa's shadow, or vice-versa.
Ultimecia has Black wings, Rinoa's wings are white.
Rinoa wears blue, Ultimecia wears red.
Rinoa's hair is black, Ultimecia's hair is white/silver.
Ultimecia controls Time/space powers, Rinoa...well she absorbed a lot of Sorceress powers so this point is moot. >.>;
BUT! Here's something interesting....Ultemcia's weapons in Dissidia have the same names as some of Rinoa's in FFviii.
....
Square is ****ing with us. -_-;
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:38 pm
About that time compression, the machine Ultimecia uses is based off of Ellone's power, if that's the case then how was she able to go back into the past to give Edea aka Matron her power? I do remember her appearing as herself.
And I just realized something towards the end of the game, Rinoa and Ellone seem to be the only two sorceresses around and even if you don't count Ellone as a sorceress that still leaves you Rinoa. Which only makes you wonder more.
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:35 pm
Kazuma Ishimaru BUT! Here's something interesting....Ultemcia's weapons in Dissidia have the same names as some of Rinoa's in FFviii. .... Square is ****ing with us. -_-; Ahahahahahaha! ****ing with us indeed! But 'tis fun, no? i Neurotic-Kitty i About that time compression, the machine Ultimecia uses is based off of Ellone's power, if that's the case then how was she able to go back into the past to give Edea aka Matron her power? I do remember her appearing as herself. And I just realized something towards the end of the game, Rinoa and Ellone seem to be the only two sorceresses around and even if you don't count Ellone as a sorceress that still leaves you Rinoa. Which only makes you wonder more. Well, time compression had already started by then, so Ellone wasn't really needed directly at that point... Everybody was already moving through time pretty freely, it seemed to me... No, Ellone's not a sorceress. That's the whole reason she was hunted down; Adel wanted to make her one, as her successor. Rinoa is the only known one, then, but I don't think that really helps... Ultimecia could be someone in a line of sorceresses after Rinoa passed her powers on, or there could be other sorceresses hidden out there... In the game it says, "It's hard to determine how many sorceresses exist today, for many keep their powers concealed" (thank you Final Fantasy wiki).
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:47 pm
Ravenwolf Kazuma Ishimaru BUT! Here's something interesting....Ultemcia's weapons in Dissidia have the same names as some of Rinoa's in FFviii. .... Square is ****ing with us. -_-; Ahahahahahaha! ****ing with us indeed! But 'tis fun, no? i Neurotic-Kitty i About that time compression, the machine Ultimecia uses is based off of Ellone's power, if that's the case then how was she able to go back into the past to give Edea aka Matron her power? I do remember her appearing as herself. And I just realized something towards the end of the game, Rinoa and Ellone seem to be the only two sorceresses around and even if you don't count Ellone as a sorceress that still leaves you Rinoa. Which only makes you wonder more. Well, time compression had already started by then, so Ellone wasn't really needed directly at that point... Everybody was already moving through time pretty freely, it seemed to me... No, Ellone's not a sorceress. That's the whole reason she was hunted down; Adel wanted to make her one, as her successor. Rinoa is the only known one, then, but I don't think that really helps... Ultimecia could be someone in a line of sorceresses after Rinoa passed her powers on, or there could be other sorceresses hidden out there... In the game it says, "It's hard to determine how many sorceresses exist today, for many keep their powers concealed" (thank you Final Fantasy wiki). Thats why I said even IF you don't count Ellone.
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:37 am
Kazuma Ishimaru See what I meant? Forte. Raven's. Bada-bing~ Ultimecia being Rinoa is a stretch, but because it's such a stretch...it's possible. If you look at the two, they are complete opposites/complements/reverses/Shel Silverstein's The Missing Piece. What I'm saying is that Ultimecia could be Rinoa's shadow, or vice-versa. Ultimecia has Black wings, Rinoa's wings are white. Rinoa wears blue, Ultimecia wears red. Rinoa's hair is black, Ultimecia's hair is white/silver. Ultimecia controls Time/space powers, Rinoa...well she absorbed a lot of Sorceress powers so this point is moot. >.>; BUT! Here's something interesting....Ultemcia's weapons in Dissidia have the same names as some of Rinoa's in FFviii. .... Square is ****ing with us. -_-; If Ultimecia is Rinoa then I think they would do it on purpose to make the characters appear as opposites in the game. Ultimecia is from the future and has been through a lot and she becomes kind of corrupted in the end. But I think it's almost a little more based on the good/bad situation. Like Rinoa is good so she supports the white wings and wears blue etc while Ultimecia holds more the "evil" traits as in having black wings and wearing red. Though I never really believed they were the same person, I could kind of see it being a possibility. Espicially now with hearing that Ultimicia's weapons in Dissidia having the same names....I think they might be trying to hint to us that they are in fact the same person. Why else would they give her the same weapons? Haha damn Final Fantasy, making us think so much. xd
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:01 am
At the end of the day this is all classic Square Enix here. They leave it up to us to come up with answers and keep us guessing. Its good story telling none the less....why? Because we are all still trying to figure out things they left in the story XD.
You kinda just have to go with what makes most sense to you. For me it would make sense (and for a better story twist) to have Ultimecia as Rinoa.
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:57 pm
Terror Of DeathX At the end of the day this is all classic Square Enix here. They leave it up to us to come up with answers and keep us guessing. Its good story telling none the less....why? Because we are all still trying to figure out things they left in the story XD. You kinda just have to go with what makes most sense to you. For me it would make sense (and for a better story twist) to have Ultimecia as Rinoa. Yup that's square enix for you...But their genius' that we adore smile
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:43 pm
Kazuma Ishimaru See what I meant? Forte. Raven's. Bada-bing~ Ultimecia being Rinoa is a stretch, but because it's such a stretch...it's possible. If you look at the two, they are complete opposites/complements/reverses/Shel Silverstein's The Missing Piece. What I'm saying is that Ultimecia could be Rinoa's shadow, or vice-versa. Ultimecia has Black wings, Rinoa's wings are white. Rinoa wears blue, Ultimecia wears red. Rinoa's hair is black, Ultimecia's hair is white/silver. Ultimecia controls Time/space powers, Rinoa...well she absorbed a lot of Sorceress powers so this point is moot. >.>; BUT! Here's something interesting....Ultemcia's weapons in Dissidia have the same names as some of Rinoa's in FFviii. .... Square is ****ing with us. -_-; also, rinoa speaks english, ultimecia speaks russian or whatever people say she speaks
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:30 am
Ravenwolf Okay, let's see... There is a theory out there that she's Ultimecia from the future. From what I know, it pretty much says that she didn't age, being a sorceress, then went crazy when Squall died ('cause not being a sorceress, he did age). After all, the entire point of having a Sorceress's Knight was to keep the sorceresses from becoming corrupt. The idea behind time compression was that if there was no time, they could be together again, but then she didn't realize she was actually fighting Squall... either just because she went crazy, or she didn't recognize him, or she forgot her original motive after so long and only focused on her goal... In any case, it does explain a few things. The ring thing is probably the biggest piece of evidence: Squall does give Rinoa his ring, and you could say that they wouldn't ask you to name it if they weren't hinting at something. It's clear from other things (his necklace, the revolver's blade and case, all the Lionheart/Leonheart stuff) that the lion is his symbol, but the name Griever is only directly associated with the ring and the GF. (The wiki says definitively that the boss is extracted from the ring, but giveth no evidence, so no counting it.) Plus, think of Doomtrain: proof that GFs can be inside not only objects, but yes, rings. It may or may not be a coincidence that it's the same object. This theory also gives her a motive for time compression that ties-in with the rest of the game, particularly what I see as the real focus of the game, Squall and Rinoa's relationship. One more thing: Rinoa and Ultimecia do have very similar facial structures, and the final FMV flashes between their faces a few times, which might be a bit of a hint. There are lots of other little bits that people cite as evidence, but I've said all the really believable ones I know of. Okay, I've been really biased. Time for a little perspective. That theory extrapolates a bit a LOT from what you're actually given in-game. It's based almost entirely on circumstantial evidence and most of the rest is Wild Mass Guessing. A lot of people find Kazuma's explanation a lot more believable. xp I think there was a line that supported her pulling Griever from Squall's thoughts, not his ring, but I honestly can't remember... The most inexplicable thing I can think of if that's the case is how, over time, she could have gained a Russian accent. xd You know what? After all that typing, I could have just linked a bunch of sites where other people argue it. Personally, I think it's exactly the kind of thing that Final Fantasy would do, but the evidence is so incredibly circumstantial that I can't say I believe it. Some of the evidence seems like a stretch to me... like it could be true, but I don't think it's enough to count as evidence. Oh yeah... One more thing. I've read that Word of God has said that the theory's completely untrue... but no citations, so... yeah, I like to think it might be. One mooooore thing! Positively no evidence here, but someone who used to be active in this guild claimed something entirely different: That Quistis is Ultimecia. She also said that all the evidence for it was cut out of the game during editing, so you can't really argue it. sweatdrop I just wanted to mention it. Yay I feel special. I also felt obligated to make this huge post now.Sorceress Powers don't make you immortal. At best, you might retain your young looks, but your life span is normal. They have to pass on their powers before they die. If they were immortal, then the game would be much different. Adel wouldn't have gone looking for an 'heir' for her powers. Which means they wouldn't have gone looking for Ellone. Which means Laguna wouldn't have chased after and sealed Adel. Which means Squall wouldn't have been an orphan, and have had Laguna and his 'sis' Ellone. Which means Squall may or may not have been a SeeD. If Squall isn't a SeeD, then Ultimecia's plot wouldn't have been carried out, because he wouldn't have defeated Ultimecia, giving her no reason to initiate time compression. Which means Edea would have never gotten her powers. In addition, if they were immortal, then they would have no reason to pass on their powers, which means Ultimecia would have been one of the first Sorceress, which probably means they would have just killed her in the present rather than go to the future.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:23 am
Arcosi Knight Sorceress Powers don't make you immortal. At best, you might retain your young looks, but your life span is normal. They have to pass on their powers before they die. If they were immortal, then the game would be much different. Adel wouldn't have gone looking for an 'heir' for her powers. Which means they wouldn't have gone looking for Ellone. Which means Laguna wouldn't have chased after and sealed Adel. Which means Squall wouldn't have been an orphan, and have had Laguna and his 'sis' Ellone. Which means Squall may or may not have been a SeeD. If Squall isn't a SeeD, then Ultimecia's plot wouldn't have been carried out, because he wouldn't have defeated Ultimecia, giving her no reason to initiate time compression. Which means Edea would have never gotten her powers. In addition, if they were immortal, then they would have no reason to pass on their powers, which means Ultimecia would have been one of the first Sorceress, which probably means they would have just killed her in the present rather than go to the future. ...Yes. You are right about the aging thing. I'm not sure where I got the idea that they didn't age now. I feel like I must have had a good reason, but... I have no idea what it was. sweatdrop ...As for being able to just kill her in the present instead...? Even if she is alive in the present time, well... using that same logic, the party could have just made sure Dr. Odine never created Junction Machine Ellone in the present, so Ultimecia could never have used it to go back in time at all. Problem solved. confused I think they just wanted you to fight her, so they made nobody else realize any alternative, eheh.
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Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:26 pm
@Bloody:
She actually does not speak anything different. After playing Dissidia, she speaks fine. The C->K thing makes no sense since she doesn't do it with Edea or Adel or Rinoa. Just must've been something from the translation.
@Raven:
The aging thing, I think, came from when she'd be frozen/sealed if Squall couldn't save her.
There was talk about the one black screen in the game where he questions if he can or not. That point is said to be the divergence.
Squall: "I don't know what to do... This is just another crossroad
in my life. But, for the first time, I don't know which way
to go. I've come this far because I've...fallen for you.
......Rinoa...... Now...am I just supposed to let you go?"
The time he DOES save her they go and they end up fighting Ultimecia.
Which gives an interesting line:
Ultimecia: "Reflect on your... Childhood..."
"Your sensation... Your words... Your emotions..."
"Time... It will not wait..."
"No matter... ...how hard you hold on. It escapes you..."
"And..."
She obviously didn't sound like the ultimate evil witch here.
The time he does NOT save her, she gets stuck in cyro-stasis. (another important theory point is that she still has his ring: Griever)
She wants the power to forget/return/whatever so she creates Griever from the ring. (this of course contradicts the final battle where she appears to pull it from Squall's mind)
Now, the important thing to remember is that this idea could have been scrapped and all this wild mass guessing is not gonna work with elements that were made after the scrap. (like the reason for Griever being drawn from Squall and not the ring)
All in all, Square states that they are not the same person. If this was a scrapped idea, or if they were twisting their words to say that "Rinoa is not Ultimecia because you saved her in-game" is still debated.
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