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Ok, I hope this discussion doesn't flow out right away, but I thought it would be nice to bring in a new topic about the first season.

Beware that there might be spoilers in some of these analyses.

The three main girls had some sort of issues with their children, which I will quickly list here (feel free to add or edit):

Mai and Kagutsuchi - Child often acts upon instinct. Follows orders during specific situations (which will be discussed) but generally fights freely. Is still able to be summoned without a tangible requirement (ex. both of Mai's close ones are gone, yet she can use their memories as her sacrifice instead of them)

Natsuki and Duran - Child refuses to summon after master suffers from deep emotional trauma. Manages to reappear and change into a stronger form due to stronger feelings invoked by its master.

Mikoto and Miroku - Child does not appear at all until master learns of the identity of her close one. (Ok, this is all I can pump at since it is 3 am here, but I don't really know what to say about Miroku and the Obsidian Lord's connection. It seemed so botched in their explanation, if any.)


So, with that review, let me post a few more ideas I have.

Mai and Kagutsuchi - The reason it seems that Kagutsuchi does not listen to Mai sometimes might be how Mai doesn't listen to her own heart. She is really doesn't know what she wants at some points of the show, so Katgutsuchi's actions may reflect that. I don't think that she had to decide if Takumi or Tate was more important to her though. However, that might attribute to it too.

Also, during the fight between Mai and Shiho, Kagutsuchi blasted Shiho only once. Mai immediately orders him to stop and what do you know, not only does he listen, Kagutsuchi doesn't fire at all anymore. In fact, after Mikoto dices up the crow (does it have a name?), Kagutsuchi is kind of ignored for the rest of the episode.

The point I'm trying to make is that at the moment, Mai knew that by defeating Shiho and her child, Tate would probably die as well, as she later states. Sure, some of you might say that Kagutsuchi listened because the show can't kill off the HiMEs themselves, but that might be due to the fact the show didn't address anything about what would happen if the HiME died before the child did.

So, that's my theory about Mai.

Natsuki and Duran - Duran was named after her loyal dog that was shown in a quick flashback featuring her mother. Although it was probably more due to the fact that Natsuki heard some pretty bad news about what her mother did, I think that since Duran was a part of her past that included her mother, it was partially related to Duran's later disappearance when she tries to summon him.

It's really interesting to see that Natsuki's love for her chosen one actually growing because at first, Duran didn't seem all that strong in comparison to some of the other children. After having some time to think about Shizuru and about the news of her mother, he clearly got a nice upgrade.

The interesting thing is Shizuru's child was one of the stronger children right from the get go, probably because Shizuru's feelings for Natsuki were strong all along and never unwavering.

I'm out of ideas about this so maybe someone will bring something up.

Mikoto and Miroku - Mikoto had a pretty blurry memory of her chosen one and as a result, her child was nowhere to be found until the show progressed much deeper into the 2nd half. Even then it was gradual: Miroku would just fire spikes out of the ground and soon enough, he would finally manifest himself.

Mikoto's loyalty to her "brother" was pretty blind and foolish, but it was strong because it's better to have a purpose and defined goal rather than to be confused about one's love. What I mean is the relationship Mai and Mikoto shared. After finding her brother and given a clear cut purpose, it became time to decide which was more important and to avoid complications of the past, Mikoto chose to follow orders.

After thinking about it, I think it was probably better for Mikoto to do it that way. Mai wasn't too sure what love was and here was Mikoto, needing a concrete answer to a question that didn't really have one. Mai had her own problems too, so trying to resolve things with Mikoto just made things more difficult.

At any rate, I'm still a little annoyed how Miroku became public enemy #1 so quickly, along with Mr. Dark Lord. Seems pretty shoddy.

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So, comments? Arguments? Rebuttles? Extra information? That's what we're here for.

And that's my late night rant about the main three girls and their children. Would this be categorized in planned parenthood? wink


Wow, that was lame...I need to sleep...

Liking the theories, I think you nailed the Mikoto and Miroku ones dead on.

But I'ma have to argue a little at Duran and Kagasutchi for somethings. My main problem with those ideas is that children cannot be summoned from dead MVP. It's a nice idea "oh they live on in my heart" but I don't think that's enough for the children. All the HiMES would have their loved ones in their hearts, but they can't summon.

For Mai, I believe the most valuable person became Mikoto. It's arguable if it was her from the begining or not, probably not, but I don't believe at the end Takumi or Tate gave her the power. I would wonder if Tate was -ever- her mvp because by the time Takumi was killed, Mikoto was pretty important. But considering where Tate returned during the last episode my guess would be he had to have been, : although we know how consistant and logical the end was so who knows. I do agree with the unpredictability being caused by Mai's heart tho, because her MVP status seemed to be jumping between three people.


As for Natsuki, I don't think her child power would've EVER been her mother. My belief is it was always Shizuru, and the poor little dork never realized it. She knew there was someone she cared for, but was so emotionally well.. retarded, she couldn't figure it out. So she assumed it was the person she had cared for as a little girl, because as far as Natsuki was concerned, that was the only person she'd allow in her heart. Her losing her powers when she learned her mom was actually a big b***h, the best I can come up with that is there are sometimes when you get so low you forget even about the people around you you care about/care about you. I can see this being even a little easier to fall into for Natsuki who had a very very loose grasp on such things anyway.

When she actually realized there was someone in her life she cared about, and that loved her back, that's why we get Giga-Duran. I honestly believe those two had the strongest bond of love in the show. Natsuki's may not have been the same as Shizuru's but it went pretty damn deep. I don't think the whole "I can't love you that way blahblahbalh" thing was even about "OMG NOT GHEY!" but still dealing with her social retardency. (and the fangirl in me hopes Shizuru will help her out of that someday (: heart )


and for misc info, Nagi actually did say what would happen if the HiME got killed in ep 16. He said something to the effect if the HiME dies, the child dies, the mvp dies. Probably to prevent dying for your love heroics xP That's why this tourney was so EVIL, in order to save your love you had to be incredibly selfish.

I still hate Reito.

... so.. what kind of contraceptives would be needed to prevent fiasco's such as this? o:

I have another theory on Natsuki and Mai...

They said it was 'omoi' that powered up the child, not 'koi/ai/suki' or whatever other form of love.

Omoi is feelings/memories/wish... depending on the context of the sentence. It's usually used in a positive way... but it can be interpreted in a negative way too. The way they put it in Mai HiME, it could be another strong feeling than of love that give you power.

So the child is born from the Omoi.
That feeling will usually be love (it is assumed to be), for most HiMEs.


My theory on Mai's child dissapearing goes like this:

When the one you love dies, your heart breaks... right?
You must take it litterally here: with her dearest gone, the HiME is overwhelmed by the sadness and the feeling she once had is clouded by that sadness. She feels the ache over the loss more than her strongest emotion (love) towards what's dearest to her. So she can't summon her child anymore.
But what if the feeling doesn't fade, like Mai?
Mai explained in ep26 that her 'omoi' was still as strong, even with her dearests gone. She shed tears over them, but she probably believed that by winning against Kokuyou no Kimi, she would get them back. Her feelings didn't wavers, so her powers didn't either.
She could still fight.

Then Natsuki:

All she had in mind, avenging her mother. She centered her life on that campaign.
Her important thing wasn't her mother, but her revenge.
When she learned what her mother did, she still loved her. But she had no reason to avenge her anymore > Natsuki lost her most important thing > Duran dissapeared.

For Natsuki, prior to her realising she loved Shizuru, it's the same principle as for Mai in the end of ep26.
Their feelings are not for something concrete/material. (ie: you can touch/hit/hug Kazuya and you can see him dissapear, but you can't touch/hit/hug Natsuki's revenge and you can't see it dissapear either)
for those two characters, it ended up being all about the feelings themselves, not their source.

Back to Natsuki...
Natsuki's strongest feeling was her hate for the first district. She didn't need her mother alive for her hate to be nourished. So at the opposite of all other HiMEs, Natsuki's child was born from hate, not love.
That why Shizuru said "Do you hate me so much?" seeing Duran's new size. She thought that once again, Natsuki's hate allowed her to summon Duran. And it hurt her that Natsuki apparently hated her much more than she had hated the First District.

That's what I believe, at least.



I don't think so... when the wind blows, Natsuki sparkles (very) shortly before Shizuru... the chain Kiyohime>Natsuki>Duran>Shizuru probably just went quick...




I didn't say it was Kokuyou no Kimi's gift because it was evil but because it stopped 'working' as soon as the pendant he gave Mikoto broke. It's like nothing linked her to that thing anymore. Plus it re-awakens to protect Kokuyou no Kimi.
Unless I get an explanation on:
1) why Mikoto's sword has a name
2) why eyes open on it
3) why it has much more power than the other elements
4) why it does not dissapear into thin air like the other elements
I'll still believe that her Child is somewhat possessing her element and powering it up.

Mai HiME had many things cut off and unexplained. It's a shame.
Besides the Mikoto thing, another example of this would be Fumi's child being Ikusahime and how it had two forms...
I'm not sure I really got how Mashiro, who is supposedly 300 years old, preserved her spirit until she could possess a child. Or what Midori was talking about when she said Kazahana Mashiro had died in a fire a few years back... was she in a human form? was she reborn? did she live up to there in her old body and when she died was hosted by Fumi's child?



The Orphan were there only for the HiMEs to awaken and get used to their powers. If Mai was sent to battle the other HiMEs with the skills she had when she first got her element (ie: flying upside down) she would've got killed imediately.
The Orphans stopped appearing when the carnival started, it's not a coincidence. They were only there to train the HiMEs.

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The Omoi theory still doesn't make sense for their children dissapearing tho in light of the other HiMES. If it's based soley off of inherently strong feelings, the extreme state of longing for their precious person would enable all HiMES to call their children, even after killed. Plus just logistically, a 300 year old game I would think has more concrete rules than that.

Although we know Natsuki was unable to summon her child, was there ever a point where Mai tried to summon hers and failed? I can't remember honestly, but for some reason I'm thinking that was something she assumed, never attempted. Although we have characters like Shizuru saying "Do you hate me that much?" and Mai "For my feelings blah blahblah" honestly, they don't know anymore than us. They're guessing at this and could easily be wrong; Shizuru proved that. I believe Mai thought it was her past feelings summoning the child, but while fighting Mikoto realized otherwise/showed us otherwise. Their statements really aren't more concrete than clues left by the series. If feelings alone could summon a child, Nao should still be able to summon as hate and revenge seems to drive her pretty well anyway with the bondage robbing, Fumi should still be able to summon because she wants to help the girls, and so on. There would almost always be a motive to go on, the nun would be the only case I couldn't think of one.



Shin - I really don't think Duran died from the blast. >_<;;; Duran died because Kiyohime died. The instant Kiyohime was taken out, Natsuki was destined to be sparkledust, which means Duran was gone. The order of them blowing out, (did anyone else notice everyone else's sparkly scenes were AGONIZINGLY slow and these two were gone like bam? T__T Guess they didn't want us to go into hysterics,) made sense, and the way they were animated was most likely on purpose.


As for Mikoto's element, I always sort of figured her child was her sword; it had a name and stuff. But considering she also called that big ugly thing Miroku, and that it seemed to pop it's spikes out of the ground periodically made me think twice. Perhaps her element and Child are sort of one entity?.. they share the role?


Sorry if this is disorganized and whatnot. Writing at school gonk

Natsuki got so many points in episode 25 it hurt. crying I think the minute she got on her motorcycle to fight Shizuru she knew what was coming. Hell so did many of the fans. I know I went into that episode going "OH GOD OH GOD T___T__T__T__T"

Really, the face Natsuki had before they burned out was by far the most powerful expression I've ever seen on an animated character, and that includes ALL of the stupid faces that came about in this series.

ROFL you know, that's probably why it was so powerful >_> She was genuinely smiling. Ugh that poor girl -_- Both of them. I think also part of the reason she didn't fear death is because at least in death her and Shizuru could end their struggle.

Natsuki would not be plagued with guilt and hurt over not being able to love shizuru that way, and Shizuru would not be in constant longing over someone who couldn't give herself away like that. So it was the one place they could be together and content, as morbid as that sounds.