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What makes a "bad" book bad?

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Tommy Dionysus

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:05 pm


This topic has been raised before, in other guilds, in other forums, and what have you, but I felt with the two threads "Do Best Sellers, Largely, Suck?" and "Book Burning," that it would be appropriate to ask the personal opinions of others as to what exactly constitutes a "bad book" in their world perspective.

Personally, I believe it is a mixture of things. Anything from storyline to the writers style to the characters to the amount of character development to the world it takes place in, language used in the book, and even the amount of description contained therein. If I don't like a book, fine, I don't like it. But I don't call it bad unless there are at least three or more deciding factors pointing in a negative direction.

So to recap, I want to know: What do you think makes a bad book bad?
As a secondary question, do you finish reading a bad book once you've decided its bad, or do you finish it?
As a tertiary question, what are some books you have read that you would consider "bad books"?

Discuss.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:12 pm


Bad books are ones that 2 or more of the following:
1) too predictable of a plot
2) bad characters (2D, too perfect, etc)
3) poor writing (bad grammar, cumbersome language, etc)
4) too "preachy"
5) characters that talk big but never deliver
6) mental stability of authour (let's face it, some people are just nutty)
7) too much explicit detail (I have no problem with characters getting together or some details but I don't need pages of it)

If I finish the book or not depends on how many of the above "flaws" it has and how sever they are.

Some "bad" books are:
Raine Benares series by Shearin (flaw 5)
Canine Capers (3 & 6)
Anything by Charline Harris (7)
Anything by Stephanie Meyers (1,2,3)
Anything by Christopher Paolini (1,2,3)

Maze353

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:22 pm


Maze353
Bad books are ones that 2 or more of the following:
1) too predictable of a plot
2) bad characters (2D, too perfect, etc)
3) poor writing (bad grammar, cumbersome language, etc)
4) too "preachy"
5) characters that talk big but never deliver
6) mental stability of authour (let's face it, some people are just nutty)
7) too much explicit detail (I have no problem with characters getting together or some details but I don't need pages of it)

If I finish the book or not depends on how many of the above "flaws" it has and how sever they are.

Some "bad" books are:
Raine Benares series by Shearin (flaw 5)
Canine Capers (3 & 6)
Anything by Charline Harris (7)
Anything by Stephanie Meyers (1,2,3)
Anything by Christopher Paolini (1,2,3)


I agree with everything on Maze's list (and just the post in general) but I'd like to add one, if I may:

8.) Lack of respect for the reader/audience.

Author's guilty of this: S. Meyer and R.A. Salvatore.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:24 pm


I totally agree with you.

I think it also has to do with the plot. If the plot isn't very good or it's predictable, it ruins the... fun, I guess. But I think you said something like this already. xPP

If I call a book "bad", I usually wait until I'm done reading it to make the final decision. It could get better. Especially towards the middle and end. But then still, I'd call it an okay book.

I can only think of one "bad book" at the moment, and it's The Book of Dreams, by O.R. Melling. It was the final book in her faerie series, but it just didn't appeal to me at all by the end. It was almost 700 pages I believe, and it dragged on. Some parts were okay; they made me want to read more, but after the middle I skipped about 200 pages. It seemed like she just wanted to finish the book series, but had no idea how. Which is weird, because I thought she was a good writer.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:31 pm


I felt that way about Anne Rice's last Vampire book. It was rushed and the writing gave the impression that she no longer gave a crap about those characters at all. Not a bad book, but nothing more than okay.

I like the list of reasons a book is bad. And I like that both Paolini and Meyers are guilty of not one, but three of the reasons (Meyers four, if you count the eighth reason, too). Thanks for the input, guys.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:33 pm


I am still not entirely sure how to answer, but having thought about it here are some thoughts...

The first thing I thought of is my younger brother, who was always very vocal about his dislike of certain foods. He would look at something and say "that's disgusting" with no qualification, or any reason other than he didn't like it. I see people do this a lot with books, and it irritates me to no end. "It sucked" means nothing more to me than you personally didn't like it...but doesn't give me any reason to respect your opinion.

I will almost always qualify negative statements about books, making it clear that what I say is m opinion. If I don't like a book I will say why, but I am not bothered if someone disagrees. It is very rarely I will come out and say a book is bad.

I realize all that's not really an answer, so I think the best I can do is give examples of a couple of books I thought were "bad."

1) George Washington: A Life by Willard Sterne Randall - This is a biography, allegedly, and I will say without equivocation that this is a bad book because of Willard Sterne Randall's poor scholarship. He is apparently too much the ivory tower intellectual to report the facts, he has to spend pages in utterly ridiculous speculation that has absolutely nothing to do with Washington's actual life. Add to this he is a self-righteous fool, who shamelessly looks down on the provincial attititudes of those lining in the 18th century. Randall's arrognce and lack of true scholarship ruin what could be an interesting biography. This is a bad book.

2) The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown - I am wavering between calling this a bad book and one I just didn't like, but I think I have solid reasons for dislike. I have to admit I bought into the hype, and probably some of my bitterness comes from overblown expectations. But. Basically I do not care for his writng style. The super-short cliffhanger chapters are stupid, in my opinion. I feel the plot is very, very thin, and Brown conceals this by relying on sensational buildup and tension...which I find almost always leads to anticlimax. I felt the entire book was an anticlimax. I didn't buy his reasoning for the supposed "national security crisis." I didn't think the great mysteries were all that great...and then once revealed, it goes on and on with page after page of quasi-religious mumbo jumbo that, in the end, meant nothing. I was very disappointed with this book. Another thing tat irks me is that Langdon's character is very like the arrogant ivory tower egghead that I despise. Arrogant, selfish, and making grand pronouncements that aren't so grand to anyone who is half well-read. I cannot like him, and while I'll never say never...this is probably the last Dan Brown book I'll read.

Well, that was long enough.

clovereffect


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:49 pm


I agree about Dan Brown's writing style. I read The DaVinci Code, and it was very disappointing. I must say, I did like the movie, but the book was just... I dunno, I didn't enjoy it.

Thanks for your input on the subject. I made this thread to see how many people actually put thought into their reasoning behind why a "bad" book should be considered bad, it's always interested me to see people's reasoning behind things like that, and how it differs from person to person, and culture to culture. I dunno, maybe I'm just an anthropologist at heart or something like that. Heh
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:55 am


RenkonNairu
Maze353
Bad books are ones that 2 or more of the following:
1) too predictable of a plot
2) bad characters (2D, too perfect, etc)
3) poor writing (bad grammar, cumbersome language, etc)
4) too "preachy"
5) characters that talk big but never deliver
6) mental stability of authour (let's face it, some people are just nutty)
7) too much explicit detail (I have no problem with characters getting together or some details but I don't need pages of it)

If I finish the book or not depends on how many of the above "flaws" it has and how sever they are.

Some "bad" books are:
Raine Benares series by Shearin (flaw 5)
Canine Capers (3 & 6)
Anything by Charline Harris (7)
Anything by Stephanie Meyers (1,2,3)
Anything by Christopher Paolini (1,2,3)


I agree with everything on Maze's list (and just the post in general) but I'd like to add one, if I may:

8.) Lack of respect for the reader/audience.

Author's guilty of this: S. Meyer and R.A. Salvatore.


That's a good one, totally ruins a book when the authour has no respect the reader.

Maze353

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:45 am


I agree with all the above and have just one thing to add, misuse of humor too often. When writers do this it just ruins a book by making feel like an amateur wrote it. It comes off like they tried to hard to be humorous and I never could tolerate that under any circumstances.

This is happening to me now with John Connolly's "The Gates". He has these footnotes were he ties explain things with a funny spin, like your too stupid/uninterested to follow it other wise. It also comes off like he tried to mimic Neil Gaiman's humor in this book and did a poor job of it.

That being said, I love the main quirky character so I'm going to finish it eventually.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:20 pm


In my opinion a book is to be considered 'bad' when there is in any way something wrong with the storyline. (Too predictable, dull, long-winded or simply contains uninteresting characters.)
Things like grammar and use of language can differ from time to time. Writing also knows different styles and hypes, and yes it may change your judgement about the story but I'd rather read a book with poor language but an amazing plot and lovely characters than I would read a book with perfect usage of language but a boring story.
Having said this I don't mean it doesn't affect my reading at all. But as the differences between those books would be like black and white, then my decision is easily made. However most of the times it is indeed a combination of both factors but I still like to believe that the storyline is more important to me.
I wouldn't call a book bad because it's not using perfectly combined sentences in the amusing plot it tells, but a book with the perfect words in combination with an awful storyline is harder to save.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:20 am


I pretty much agree with every post but anothr thing to add is if the characters are really bad ( annoying, oblivious etc) I find if the characters in a book are bad then the book is a turn of. Also, if the book is way to predictable or is really cliche i find those books are pretty bad.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:31 am


not wrapping things up.

foreshadowing and then letting your hints drop without picking them up again.

introducing interesting ideas, like the history and sociology of brownies, and letting us get to know them, and then completely forgetting about them for the rest of the book, they do not influence the basic plot in any way (Cecelia Dart-Thornton, Well Of Tears)

always leaving the conclusions inconclusive (like Robert Jordan)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:19 am


A book is bad when:
1. it's too predictable
2. it mentions things and completely drops anything about them later
3. it doesn't mention enough
4. the book won't capture your imagination
5. too much focus on one thing without any breaks
6. things are so perfect that it's boring
7. things are repetative
8. too much talking but not enough action
9. they end the book in a mystery that's not at all that creative
10. the author thinks way too much about things but it just makes things too plain and predictable
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