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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:18 pm


There are quite a few words in Paganism and Occultism - indeed in religion generally - that can mean different things to different people, or have implications to some that they don't have to others. Some mean something specific but are used by some in different ways. Some words are controversial. Sometimes there are situations where a word might mean something different to you

I mean this thread to be for extended discussion rather than debate in particular, but don't be surprised if someone asks what leads to your definition.

What do you understand the following words to mean? Answer as many or as few as you like.

Pagan
Heathen
Witch
Wiccan
Druid
Hedgewitch
Kitchen witch
Hellenismos
Reconstructionism
Shaman
Vodou (Voodoo, Voudon)
Priest
Coven
Church
Sacred
Profane
Gnosis
Altar
Shrine
Worship
Prayer
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:46 am


merry meet,
here are my answers xd

pagan-paganus-originally villiage dweller, now anyone basically not christian

heathen-originally was a word meaning from the heaths or heather as in field-when the christian church went to convert an area basically plan of attack was to convert the ruling body,once coverted the ruling heads could make a law over the people they governed to change religions, since the village dwellers and average person was converted last heathen and pagan ended up associated with the old religion of the lord and lady

witch/wiccan-one who follows the old ways of worship and reverance to what the lord and lady places in our care, its a gift with great responisbility.wiccan could derive from many words meaning to bend or to bend to ones will, meaning we use the energy to shape action,ideals or things. just remember the 3 times rule. i added them together because to me its the same, most people prefer to be called wiccans due to the negativity that the word witch implies to those who do not understand

druid- i will admit i dont touch much into druidism, to my knowledge they hold the trees sacred usually associated with stonehenge and started in great britian, gathers of knowledge, did not write their knowledge down but mainly passes it by word of mouth, during the roman occupation in great britan most were driven out,or became more known as bards,i know that one roman soilder kept a druid in his company for advice but i dont remember their names at 2 am

hedgewitch-may be a new term for certian type of wicaan group, judging by the name i would think this particular group would be more practice intertwined with gardening or woodsie, but if i meet one i would have to ask them

kitchen witch- one whom practices in the kitchen,mainly works with food majick or in the home

hellenismos- again at 2 am not sure gonna leave this one as is

reconstructionism- seeing this is a gathering of different paths- this term to me can be so many things but due to the history of prejudice for all pagans, we have seen a reemergance of the worship of the lord and lady in recent times where we are being slightly more accepted- so maybe the reconstruction or rebirth of our fellowship

shaman- wise person usually in tribal areas, the one who walks between worlds to help their people, mostly associated with native americans but that is a sterio type.

vodou (voodoo,voudon and ive actually seen it spelled with a w too)- again not too versed on this-basically from what i know its a mixture of haitian beliefs/tribal afrian/ and catholic mytisism.

preist- a spiritual leader in any religion. usually appointed by a group or by the groups organization

coven- a group,usually one preist and one preistess and coven members,some say you have to have 13 to be a coven, ive been part where there were over 30 members and then been to some with only 4 members. but i would say its a group of pagans whether its be all wiccans/witches or for all that share a fellowship and learn from eachother, a family

church- a gathering place to worship, does not have to be a building

sacred- something that is special, touched by the devine, personal

profane- to treat something with abuse or contempt, to debase by vulgar actions or verbally

gnosis-spiritual truth

altar- a place usually a table top or podium set for the the deities in their honor, can be stationary or movable

shrine- a place that is sacred and or where sacred items are stored, can also be a place for the dead as a rememberance

worship- reverance to a person or deity. ie hero worship and goddess worship. its also the practice of the creed and ritual of your path

prayer- dialog between you and your deity, communication or petition, basically one on one time with your deity

i tried to be general but still keep in mind that the topic asked for our personal definition smile bb

silvara1

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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:56 am


silvara1
the old religion of the lord and lady


Which old religion would this be?

Quote:
witch/wiccan-one who follows the old ways of worship and reverance to what the lord and lady places in our care, its a gift with great responisbility.wiccan could derive from many words meaning to bend or to bend to ones will, meaning we use the energy to shape action,ideals or things. just remember the 3 times rule. i added them together because to me its the same, most people prefer to be called wiccans due to the negativity that the word witch implies to those who do not understand


And yet, they are not the same. A witch is a practitioner of witchcraft; a Wiccan is an initiate of Wicca. Most witches are not Wiccan, although all Wiccans are witches. I am a witch, but not a Wiccan.

Quote:
hedgewitch-may be a new term for certian type of wicaan group, judging by the name i would think this particular group would be more practice intertwined with gardening or woodsie, but if i meet one i would have to ask them


Hedgewitches "walk the hedge"; they leave their bodies and travel to other worlds for various purposes as a major aspect of their craft. They do things in very different ways to Wiccans, although I imagine there are Wiccans who are also Hedgewitches. (Mostly I didn't want to give definitions for things you didn't know definitions of because this is a personal understanding thread, but as a hedgewitch myself I felt the need to clear this up wink )
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:49 pm


silvara1
merry meet,
here are my answers xd


druid- i will admit i dont touch much into druidism, to my knowledge they hold the trees sacred usually associated with stonehenge and started in great britian, gathers of knowledge, did not write their knowledge down but mainly passes it by word of mouth, during the roman occupation in great britan most were driven out,or became more known as bards,i know that one roman soilder kept a druid in his company for advice but i dont remember their names at 2 am

i tried to be general but still keep in mind that the topic asked for our personal definition smile bb


just to point out that druidism has it's roots in gaul(france)

xXrainbowrazorsXx


ncsweet

PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:18 am


(I left out ones that I don't really use)

Pagan Primarily an umbrella term, encompassing religions/paths that are non-Abrahamic. Can also be used as a shortened form of "eclectic neo-pagan", so it would depend on the context of the conversation.

Heathen I tend to associate Heathenry almost exclusively with Norse recon/ Asatru, but it probably encompasses a bit more as well.

Witch a person who practices witchcraft

Wiccan priest/ess of the Lord and Lady - can trace initiatory lineage to Gardner, and follow the correct practices. Due to the abundance of misinformation that can be found in many "Wiccan" books, there are many who call themselves Wiccan, who have not actually been initiated. Their use of the word (usually preceeded by "neo" or "eclectic") is a hotly debated topic and strictly speaking is not correct usage.

Druid Historically it refers to an extinct class of people from the Gael culture (similar to what are now know as doctors, lawyers, architects, etc...). Is also used by some recon groups to describe a path that is loosely based on the above, however "modern druids" have little to nothing in common with what Druids actually were.

Hedgewitch a witch who "specializes" in journeying/trance work - they walk the hedges between this world and others.

Kitchen witch witchcraft centered around food and the home

Hellenismos Greek reconstruction relgion

Reconstructionism a religion/path based on historical texts and lore/myths

Priest person who has been called (and has answered that call) to serve a particular God/Goddess (or pantheon). Usually requires initiation, or formal dedication ceremony, taking of oaths/vows and actual service to said Gods.

Coven formal group of witches - for ritual purposes, spell working, ect...

Church I tend to relate the word "church" to Christian based faiths, but in truth it could describe any building/area used for worship.

Sacred anything that is holy/divine, or a object/belief/feeling that is highly revered

Gnosis knowlege

Altar more of a working space, contains ritual tools, representations of God(s), and any other necessary items

Shrine similar to an altar, however this is more of a passive space - used more for memorials or dedications to a specific person/deity (or groups/pantheon).

Worship on one hand it is actively honoring/servings one's God(s), or that you have a regular practice that revolves around certain God(s)

Prayer communication with deity


xXrainbowrazorsXx
just to point out that druidism has it's roots in gaul(france)


The Gael (and Druids) are rooted in Irish culture, not French (though there is apparently an island in France called Gaƫl).
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:44 pm


silvara1
merry meet,
here are my answers xd

heathen-originally was a word meaning from the heaths or heather as in field-when the christian church went to convert an area basically plan of attack was to convert the ruling body,once coverted the ruling heads could make a law over the people they governed to change religions, since the village dwellers and average person was converted last heathen and pagan ended up associated with the old religion of the lord and lady

witch/wiccan-one who follows the old ways of worship and reverance to what the lord and lady places in our care, its a gift with great responisbility.wiccan could derive from many words meaning to bend or to bend to ones will, meaning we use the energy to shape action,ideals or things. just remember the 3 times rule. i added them together because to me its the same, most people prefer to be called wiccans due to the negativity that the word witch implies to those who do not understand


re: Heathen -
Like the Latin 'paganus', the word 'heathen has its' roots in the fact that those who lived on the heath, in the country, were uncivilized people. People outside the 'civilized' cities were more likely to practice older faiths, rather than whatever was new and popular in the urban centers.

But - What 'old religion of the lord and lady' are you talking about? There's no historical proof for such a thing, and the theories surrounding such were debunked years ago.

re: Witch/Wiccan -
They're not synonymous. Don't lump them together, because not all witches are Wiccan, and you can't use the terms interchangebly.

Wicca is not ancient. It is not a long-practiced faith. It is, at best, between 50 and 70 years old.

Wicca does not involve a "Rule of Three". The Rule of Three is not even probable. The only thing I consider a "Law of Returns" is this: that really has any sort of basis is this - "For each action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Morgandria
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Lucas Moonrose

Shapeshifter

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:27 am


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Pagan: Anyone who practices a religion not based around YHWH
Heathen: see Sanguina
Witch: Anyone who practices Witchcraft.
Wiccan: see Morgandria
Druid: 3.5 DnD class that focus around nature worship. A Divine Caster who can change shape at will and can call forth natures wrath. (One of my favorite classes and one I can relate to.)
Hedgewitch: A Walker between Hedges. Plane walker.(from previous posts)
Kitchen witch: One who does most of their "witching" in the kitchen.
Hellenismos: No idea
Reconstructionism: No idea
Shaman: Similar to a priest.
Vodou (Voodoo, Voudon): A song by Godsmack
Priest: Anyone who worships and Speaks with and is spoken to by a god/goddess(s)
Coven: An organization of Occult Practitioners.
Church: A Holy building in which religion is practiced.
Sacred: Anything considered holy or of High Reguard.
Profane: Not nice.
Gnosis: Knowledge
Altar: An area where magic takes place. A place you consider Sacred.
Shrine: A Mini Altar
Worship: To Believe and Reveir a God/goddess(s)
Prayer: To speak with and ask Politely of a Deity

User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:21 pm


love how everyone quoted me, im flattered. but remember it was around 3 am and i wrote it broadly. plus the fact i was the only one whom actually submitted answers to the definition. never claimed they had to be what you believe. these are my beliefs, and lord and lady, most older cultures have a god and goddess until we reach christianity. and yes i did say most. and in most circles its alot easier to call to the the lord aka god and lady aka goddess as to reach across all pathenons. and if i misspelled that opps.. i never claimed to have all knowledge. just as the post stated we all come from different backgrounds. as far as wicca and witches, you define them for yourselves. they are the same, just christians gave witches a bad name. if you dont feel comfortable with that term, blessed be to you. oh and your more than welcome to post your own definitions.......

silvara1

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:24 pm


sorry there were one or 2 people that actually posted definitions other than me. to them i apologize.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:59 pm


silvara1
most older cultures have a god and goddess until we reach christianity. and yes i did say most.

Would you like to name which ancient cultures worshiped only a Lord and Lady? I'm pretty sure most pantheons we learn about have a whole damn pantheon.
Quote:
just as the post stated we all come from different backgrounds. as far as wicca and witches, you define them for yourselves.

Come from different backgrounds, yes. But I do not think that means the definition of some words has a totally different, radical meaning. And it certainly doesn't write off or insert the existence of various gods where they do not belong.
Quote:
they are the same,

Oh hahaha. Ha.
No, they are not. Wicca is specific - it is a faith. A Wiccan is someone who follows this faith. A witch is someone who practices witchcraft. They are not inherently religious. Most witches aren't even Wiccan, I'd wager.
Quote:
if you dont feel comfortable with that term, blessed be to you.

Erm, no thanks. I don't feel that your or your Lady's blessing is appropriate or helpful at the moment.

Violet Song jat Shariff
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Sanguina Cruenta
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:07 pm


silvara1
love how everyone quoted me, im flattered. but remember it was around 3 am and i wrote it broadly. plus the fact i was the only one whom actually submitted answers to the definition. never claimed they had to be what you believe.


I mentioned in the first post that your definitions might be questioned. If you didn't want them questioned, you shouldn't have posted. This is extended discussion; we are interested in your reasons for defining things as you have done, particularly when they contradict the definitions that are standard or that some of us hold ourselves.

Quote:
these are my beliefs, and lord and lady, most older cultures have a god and goddess until we reach christianity.


Most of them seem to have many gods and goddesses, not just one of each. But there may be some that have just one of each; which ones are you thinking of?

Quote:
and yes i did say most. and in most circles its alot easier to call to the the lord aka god and lady aka goddess as to reach across all pathenons.


Which god and goddess are these? Just general, non-specific amalgams?

Why would you want to reach across all pantheons?

Quote:
as far as wicca and witches, you define them for yourselves. they are the same, just christians gave witches a bad name.


In what way are they the same? One is a religion, the other is a craft.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:13 pm


Pagan: Practitioner of non-Abrahamic, non-Eastern faith.
Heathen: One who lives on the heath. Strongly tied to Nordic Paganism.
Witch: One who practices witchcraft.
Wiccan: Priest or priestess of the Lord and Lady of the Isles.
Druid: Caste in Celt society that encompassed the roles of historian, architect, lawyer, doctor, and I *think* priest sometimes.
Hedgewitch: A witch who incorporates a lot of otherwordly travel in his/her practice.
Kitchen witch: One who uses food as his/her magical medium. Infuses his/her food with his/her intentions, etc...
Hellenismos: Hellenic Recon!
Reconstructionism: Revival of pre-Christian faiths. This isn't so much a "Let's do things exactly the way they did them before Christianity set in!" so much as it is "Let's try to see if we can rebuild practices as though they hadn't been wiped out and continued to evolve naturally over the course of time until the present day."
Shaman: Eastern Asian journeying tradition practitioner.
Vodou (Voodoo, Voudon): Syncretic faith that fuses Catholicism and indigenous African beliefs.
Priest: Holy leader.
Coven: A group coming together to do magical practices or workings of one sort or another.
Church: A centralized building of religious importance.
Sacred: Holy; not profaned.
Profane: Made unholy; unfit for use or participation in ritual.
Gnosis: Personal knowledge gained through experiences that don't utterly and totally contradict existing lore.
Altar: Space to do magical or religious workings.
Shrine: Space set up in honor of deity or an intention in magical workings.
Worship: Praising, thanking, honoring the god(s) in set ritual.
Prayer: Communication with one's god(s), be it asking for something, giving thanks, praise, apologizing, etc...

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Morgandria
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:41 am


silvara1
love how everyone quoted me, im flattered. but remember it was around 3 am and i wrote it broadly. plus the fact i was the only one whom actually submitted answers to the definition. never claimed they had to be what you believe. these are my beliefs, and lord and lady, most older cultures have a god and goddess until we reach christianity. and yes i did say most. and in most circles its alot easier to call to the the lord aka god and lady aka goddess as to reach across all pathenons. and if i misspelled that opps.. i never claimed to have all knowledge. just as the post stated we all come from different backgrounds. as far as wicca and witches, you define them for yourselves. they are the same, just christians gave witches a bad name. if you dont feel comfortable with that term, blessed be to you. oh and your more than welcome to post your own definitions.......


I understand that you're a soft polytheist. That's your right. However, I have difficulty, with my own background in history, with you trying to say that all pagan cultures in history were soft-polytheistic, and worshipped anything like the 'Lord and Lady' structure of Wicca that generic neo-paganism has co-opted for its own use. That simply didn't happen.

You can call yourself a Wiccan if you've earned that right through hard work, and receiving initiation into the faith. By no means do all witches do so. You can, if you desire, continue to conflate the two words, but you are incorrect, and simply adding to the mass of misinformation regarding Wicca, and witchcraft, already in the public infosphere. Holding an opinion, despite being shown factual information to the contrary of said opinion, is willful ignorance.

By NO means are Wiccans merely afraid of the negative connotations of the word 'Witch'. I am Witch and Priestess - I was initiated so. Wicca embraces the term.

And please do not use 'Blessed Be' in the manner you have just done. It is out of context, in this instance, and it is sacred ritual language. By no means have you earned the right to use it, and the fact that you are using it in a condescending manner to those you have absolutely no right to take that attitude with, simply
makes it worse.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:27 am


Pagan: non-abrahamic. Debatable as to whether the term applies to some non-abrahamic faiths. From Latin 'paganus', meaning 'rustic, villager, civilian'. Basically used by Romans originally to denote a hick, someone who wasn't a skilled soldier, someone from the country. Evolved a religious meaning once cities became largely Christian - rural communities were more likely to worship older Gods. Applied to modern usage in 1908.

Heathen: Like 'paganus', a term that denotes someone who lives in the country, 'the heaths'. Modern usage applies to the practice of a Northern European/Germanic/Saxon-based path.

Witch: Someone who practices witchcraft.

Wiccan: an initiate of an Orthopraxic, Oathbound, Initiatory, Mystery-based, Experiential, Coven-based, Fertility-focused, Dithesitic Witch-cult whose members are all Clergy within a Lineaged Tradition.

Druid: Member of a caste of Celtic society; essentially a white-collar caste. Roles of said caste have largely been absorbed into different parts of modern life; the caste no longer exists. Ancient Druids died out

Hedgewitch: Witchcraft that incorporates an Otherworld tradition; 'Riding the Hedge' as part of your craft.

Kitchen witch: Witchcraft done with materials available in the common kitchen, often through cooking or baking into food and drink.

Hellenismos: Greek reconstructionism.

Reconstructionism: Creating religious practices out of ancient ones, by adapting them to modern living. Such paths tend to be more scholarly than others, using archaeological and anthropological source materials as guides, along with any primary source writings available.

Shaman: An individual trained in the religious practices of the indigenous peoples of Siberia. The term is commonly misapplied to all sorts of similar indigenous practices, and frequently misused by individuals to describe their Otherworld-journeying based paths. This is due to cultural appropriation.

Vodou (Voodoo, Voudon): Afro-Caribbean, a member of a group of West African faiths syncresized with Roman Catholicism; specifically Haitian. Slaves brought to the Caribbean in the 16th C. to work plantations were forced to convert to Catholicism, but hid their indigenous faiths within that structure.

Priest: an individual specifically initated or consecrated to the service of a Deity or group of Deities. Can include services offered
to a lay community.

Coven: A group of witches practicing together; may or may not be religious in nature.

Church: A physical structure used for religious meetings.

Sacred: That which is holy, something that has a particular significance or usage by a religious group or culture.

Profane: That which is unholy; something considered unwelcome, undesirable, dirty, or wrong by a religious group or culture.

Altar: A specific area or object dedicated to the honouring of a particular Deity or pantheon through religious observance and offerings; often the centerpiece of an area or building used for religious services.

Shrine: An area dedicated to a specific Deity or pantheon that is used solely to make offerings, prayers, petitions, and commune with said Deity or pantheon. May be less formal than an altar. Not the main focal point of religious service or workings, as an altar might be.

Morgandria
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silvara1

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:21 pm


to sanguina:question me all you want, debate with me all you want, but do not attack me. its one thing to discuss but i feel like i have been targeted. yes there are many gods and goddesses out there, but in a large group that may not have the same background, lord and lady or goddess and god which ever you prefer is easier that lets say isis astarte diana hecate demeter ianna hesta pan thor ahpuch baal brigit dicang horus etc. and just for the record morgandria your have no right to judge me and my faith. preistess or not. i have nothing to prove to you or anyone else but to my dieties. nor do you have any right to say what is right or wrong, it is a belief and faith. and NO ONES faith in whatever they believe should be told is wrong. again this is supposed to be a debate and a conversation, not a personal attack. so in your opinion itself is willful ignoranceof yourself. and as far as the blessed be, that was meant to be as to each their own not in a negitive way. if it was taken as so i apoligize to those in this forum. as for me, i again state i answered these definitions to the BEST of MY ability at 3 AM. and i will not be visiting this thread again. maybe instead of attacking answers, as i have not attacked anyone elses definitions, maybe understand that not everyone shares your views and accept it, give them alternative points of view, but we as PAGAN should never push OUR views on anyone, we should teach those willing to learn. the last time i checked we didnt go to anyones door and say hi im your friendly neighborhood wiccan come to save your spirit. the gods and goddess touch everyone differently that does not make anyone right or wrong.
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