Welcome to Gaia! ::

Well, to tell the truth, I've been stumped on this question as well, ever since Kered_T brought this up. Before i just thought, god created man and woman, if you weren't like that then too bad, but then, I thought about the point that god loves everyone. So would god be dissapointed in us if we were bi sexual? People say that love is unstoppable, if so, are people wrong for being bi sexual? I'm sorry that I can't actually answer this question, but this question just made me think really hard and made me want to voice my opinions, so yah.
So sorry I couldn't help Kered_T and all, I hope others can help us answer this question.

Ok it goes way beyond the discussion of who God created

You have to look at both old testament and new testament writings regarding the issue.

The first thing I want to make very clear and there is no room in scripture for any other interpretation but this, is that homosexuality is a sin. There are no if's and or buts about it.


1st Corinthians: Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

You must understand by this that those who commit homosexual acts are in fact sinning.... HOWEVER it is not our responsibility as Christians to pass judgement on them. Also remember in Matthew it says "Judge not lest you be judged, for by the same order you judge, you will be judged"

It is our responsibility as Christians to love those who persecute us, to love the sinners but to hate the sin that they commit...


So yes Homosexuality is wrong. The verse that I have listed is not the only one that says this, it is also in the old and other portions of the new testament. However it is our responsibility to love them and to show them God's love, not to hold picket signs and oppose them.I am against gay marriage... however I will not abuse or condemn homosexuals for wanting that in their relationships.

That's all I have for you.. if you want more details on this please PM me... I have been very busy and I have a lot of information on this specific topic as i have debated it often

And now this is what I say, both Kered_T and Friar Thomas have a good point there, and i agree with both, but one thing that struck me while I was reading this was, if there was a homosexual person who just learnt about christianity, and decided he/she would give all his faith to Jesus, but then found out that homosexuality was a sin, would he/she have to strive to being godly, as in being merciful, faithful know how to forgive and all, by trying to give up being homosexual?
I say yes and no to this, both are baisically the reasons that Friar Thomas and Kered_T said. Yes because Homosexuality is a sin, and if someone can't seem to change it that they need to, as a youth speaker once said to me 'Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try again' even if 'again' is what seems to be the thousandth time. No because even though it is a sin, we all sin, and those who arn't homosexual arn't any better than those who are.
So those things said I want to know your thoughts about this question.

You both are hitting on a point that is extremely important to distinguish.

There are two types of quote "Christian Homosexuals"

There are those who say no its not a sin and completely ignore the references to scripture.

Then there are those who recognize its sinful and do their bests to stop sinning. They also constantly are striving to meet God's will.


Kerad when it comes to your quotes there is one thing that is common in all of them... everyone in those quotes is an acceptor of the homosexual lifestyle.

(With the exception of the bible quote).

I want to make it very clear that despite what the world thinks no one is born gay... there have been studies done and every case of homosexuality has a specific reason as to why they are homosexual. There is also no such thing as the "gay gene" it is a choice that people make.


Yes I understand that people aren't attracted to the opposite sex but it is often caused by something in their lives that alters their subconscious.


I believe that if someone recognizes the sin of homosexuality and does their best to try and overcome their sin, then and only then will those who are homosexuals be able to go to heaven. If those who are accepting of the homosexual lifestyle and refuse to see that it is in fact a sin... I don't believe will make it in.

Just like the alcoholic or the drug abuser or the porn addict... the acceptance of the sin is also a sin... you cannot live a lifestyle in sin and just accept it.

Friar, I do see point in this. The facts stand: most facts are facts.

Though there are facts that say: the world WILL end in 2012. There are facts that say 'There is no god', and 'humans are animals and nothing more'. But we find these 'facts' incorrect.

Even if homosexuality is an alteration in subconsciousness, is it not the fact that retardedness and madness is not a gene either? That, are you stating, that a a christian person with disabilities to the mind will be rejected from heaven if they do not see that there is something more wrong with them than anyone else? I still stand my the fact that there is no lesser or greater sin: aslong as we have faith, pursue righteousness, show with our tongues and our actions that we are christians, that we know we are wrong and are doing something about it, we will be accepted into the Kingdom. For yes, as long as we try to stay 'hertosexual' we may be judged righteous? TRY.

Through that, as I said before, you would be a christian Homosexual: following in the laws of christ and acting as a hetrosexual, though your mind might be elsewhere.



The song Indescribable states 'you see the depths of my heart, and you love me the same.'

Friar, I do think its too harsh to say for certain Homosexuals will not be accepted into heaven. Its stuns me that throughout the bible, when Jesus accepts everyone, there are still some people who decline in his name.

Matthew 19:13; Mark 10:13-16; and Luke 18:15-17 all state the following story, give or take.

15People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

And the next, a story of a sinner, who is accepted by our Lord.

Luke 7:36-50
[36] Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. [37] When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, [38] and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.
[39] When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is -- that she is a sinner."
[40] Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."
"Tell me, teacher," he said.
[41] "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. [42] Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"
[43] Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."
"You have judged correctly," Jesus said.
[44] Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. [45] You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. [46] You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. [47] Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven -- for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."
[48] Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
[49] The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
[50] Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

And again:

41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

There are just so many stories of Jesus forgiving people or accepting people in the Bible. Yes, I am aware they all recognised their sins, and went against that.

My interpretation of your statement, Friar, is that no person can enter the Kingdom homosexual. But what if they recognised their sins and TRIED to be hetrosexual? What about them?

Have a look at 2 Corinthians 5:16ff. Here Jesus’ death and resurrection is described as an act of reconciliation which is a relational term - “God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them”. (2 Cor 5:19). Moreover it was a universal act for all people - the whole world. Rom 5:1-11 talks about Jesus death as being an act of love for us sinners so that we might be reconciled to him. Likewise in John 3:16 God gives his son that whoever believes in him shall have eternal life. That is this eternal life is available to everyone who believes in Jesus. Even homosexuals.

Well, from what can be seen in here this seems to be a very opinuated topic... And I can't tell who's right, but one thing I noticed is that we are saying that you have to be this good or right or something to get in to heaven, as I said before the only way to get in to heaven is complete faith in Jesus Christ, none of us can cut it to make our way to heaven. We are all loved by God and I believe that if you have complete faith and dedicate your life to God, when I say dedicating your life to God, Yes, that does mean that homosexual people should try to change that fact, yes, for them it would be hard, grueling and heart breaking, and they may have to try several million times to change this fact, but remember, they will have God with them to watch over them, support them and stay in control. God has made many tough challenges for others in the bible, maybe these are more challenges made for us in these modern times. Friar Thomas, one thing, please remember that drug addicts, alchohol addicts and all tha jazz can still get in to the kingdom of heaven if they ask for forgiveness and direct the rest of their life to Jesus, there is never no hope for anyone.

I guess thats right. Along the lines of:

If you know wrong and strive to do right thumbs up!
If you know wrong and judge yourself right, thumbs down.

Okay.