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 Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:34 am
OMFG!!!
Someone (not naming names, but it starts with a "C" and ends with an "N") stole the SOLSTICE a while back and are STILL trying to pass it off as their own!!!
Let's fight back by pointing out all the Xmassy things and traditions that have nothing to do with Xmas and everything to do with the old religions!!!
Such as:
The Tree
The Holly
The Presents
The Feast
St. Nick
The Reindeer
The Fire
The Colors
The Story
The Light
The Birth
Come one guys! The truth will set you free! =3
(Didja know that when the prudish, witch-burning Puritan fathers came to America, they FORBID the celebration of Christmas, because it was a "PAGAN" holiday where people caroused, decorated trees and had tons of illicit fun???)
mrgreen
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:54 pm
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:13 am
I am under the impression that much of the joy of 'Christmas', the feast, the decorations, the gifts, are a recent adoption. Everyone remember 'A Christmas Carol'? Wasn't Bob Cratchit supposed to work at least a half day on Christmas?
With that said, yes, many customs associated with the Christmas season have a non-Christian origin. I don't think all of them necessarily have a religious origin of any sort or the symbolic significance they have now is different from what they used to. Mistletoe is a good example of this - the Druids didn't use it to steal kisses from random members of the opposite sex. Rather than jump in and accuse the Christians of cultural misappropriation, however, I remain somewhat amused that they chose to move the celebration of Jesus' birth from September to December to coincide with the mythological birth stories that predate Christianity. I have read that the reason for 'compromises' like this, or blending of religious traditions, is a way to make a newer religion more palatable and easier to adopt over an older.
What bugs me is the whole 'Jesus is the reason for the season' nonsense. Because it is just that: nonsense. Jesus was born just after the Autumnal equinox. I want to say that this was deduced from the astronomical references in the Christ stories but I'm not sure right off the top of my head. The actual year of his birth is pinpointed by that Star that the Wise Men followed, actually a supernova whose occurrence can be independently verified.
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:04 am
well, the druids were not using mistletoe for kissing, that's for sure. =D
yeah, cratchit was supposed to work part of christmas, but i think that had more to do with rampant laissez-faire capitalism, and the absence of any labor laws than with the holiday. on the other hand, christmas used to be an "outside" holiday, where people did a lot of drinking and brawling along with the caroling. i believe i heard that city officials in some areas began to encourage the quiet, christmas with presents, a tree, and the family that we are all used to around the time of the US civil war, mainly to get people off the streets. (which is, coincidentally, about when dickens wrote a christmas carol... hmmm...)
i prefer to remember the why of things. they make more sense that way. we live in a time where a lot of different traditions have been cobbled together to make our christmas. i think that's a wonderful thing, but the pagan origins of most of them is glossed over or deliberately left out of the picture. and that's doing a disservice to those traditions to forget that they once had a deeper meaning, and were not simply a silly holiday decoration that can be tossed into the bin the day after christmas and forgotten until next year. seems most of our accumulated "traditions" are barely over a century old. at least in the USA.
i also think its delightfully ironic that the solstice, which is the birthday of many a hero who brings the light back, was assigned to jesus as his birthday. i think the church fathers were in a "well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mode when that happened. (a change in the calendar pushed the date from the 21st/22nd to dec. 24th/25th)
this is by no means, universal. in the eastern orthodox tradition, christmas is not a big deal. it's easter that's the big holiday there.
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:15 am
Well, let's see if I can get my ancient history right.....
When the Romans conquered many a land, yes, they brought their Gods with them and erected temples. The locals were not necessarily told that they had to convert nor to give up their religious practices - the sets of deities co-existed and customs, with time, blended to some degree. It isn't until you have this 'you shall have no God before Me' stuff starts and its adherents gain the upper hand that everyone must convert. This is an oversimplification; the Hebrews had this commandment but didn't enforce it on all non-believers through their history but there are nasty bits in the Bible. Anyway, by the time of Jesus the Hebrews weren't much of a world power so 'convert or die' had no bite.
The early Christians weren't a bunch of long-range plotters, I don't think. They just did what others had done before them: adapt to make assimilation easier. So, the Christian religious calendar has elements that are built on older traditions and they have forgotten in the intervening years, so much so that there is no recognition of any other way of thinking.
Yes, I wish there was more attention paid to why we do what we do and less 'going through the motions'.
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Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:16 am
very true. going through the motions can sometimes make a ritual a little meaningless. that's why i really like the jewish seder. the youngest person at the table, preferably a child, has to ask the oldest person at the table, "why are we doing this?" everything on the table has a memory attached to it, the bitter herbs, the eggs, the salt, ect. so the oldest explains what everything means...
my family has a tradition for new years that i always look forward to. i work nights, so i specifically ask for new year's eve off so i can be there. my mom and grandmom did this, and i have passed it on to my niece. first you bank the fire in the fire place, so that there are hot coals under a layer of ash (so the fire doesn't go out) then you go outside at just before midnight. you bring the first loaf of the year, which you just baked. it has to have salt on it. then when then new year arrives, you eat the warm bread and toast each other and make your wishes for the new year. you also freeze your butt off cuz it's cold where i am. (lol) then we go in and start the fire in the fireplace again, from the coals of the last fire (unless you screwed up and the fire's totally out...)
i had no clue where this all came from, until someone from eastern europe told me that it was a rural custom -- then it suddenly all made sense. (it turns out that my grandma was raised by poles, russians, and germans) and so it was a very old thing that grandma and mom had handed off to me. the new loaf, the salt, the wine, the fire... its the old story again. the sacred meal, the consumption of the god, the lighting the first fire. and that made that specific ritual much more of a precious treasure to me. =) i was no longer doing it just because...
(grandma always swept the house on the last day of the year too, but i am such a rotten house keeper... i kinda let that part of the ritual slide. maybe next year... =P )
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