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 Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:19 pm
Hey guys! Thought I'd gt involved and do a little posting. Recently something has been bothering me. I've been a pagan for 7 years and while length of time does not necessarily correlate with experience/knowledge/wisdom I have certainly noticed changes. People will believe anything. And they'll vehmently defend to the death the reality of said 'anything'. I'm pretty crap at voicing my opinion but it seems someone has done a better job. This Witchvox article pretty much sums up what I mean. What do you guys think? Has neo-paganism gotten a little ridiculous? Are people too ready to accept what could be utter nonsense? Thanks xx
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:09 pm
Have you seen the Supernatural forum? If you haven't, it's best not to look, unless you don't really want your faith in humanity.
It's not just neo-pagans, but neo-paganism seems to lead to people saying "OMGoddess! If all this magic stuff is true, then this Time Cube or ion storm or Jesus=Horus must be true, too! Look at all the knowledge I'm uncovering now that I'm magical!"
And there's a ton of information out there, and most of it is just outright lies. But people think that "open-mindedness" and "don't rule anything out" means "accept everything, because otherwise you're just like those Christians."
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:15 pm
To the one that I serve The only problem I have with that article is that it makes it seem like paths that deal with mythical beings (Draconic paths for example) are invalid. I work with dragons. They are real. I will give my all
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:56 pm
It's not simply whether something is real but what they are. Fae are not small sparkly things with wings, they are not nice, and they do not live at the bottom of your garden. Dragons are not friendly, they do not view humans as things to be helped.
That's not to say people can't, or don't, legitimately work with these entities. But it does mean that a lot of people who think they do, don't.
There's a lot of stupid within Paganism. Of course, there's a lot of stupid generally, but it really seems to come out in full force in the Pagan "community". There's far too much "I believe it so you can't tell me I'm wrong!".
And that "rods" thing. They're moths, people! Moths! 2012 my a**! Ask the Mayans, not Sylvia Brown, she wouldn't know her a** from a hole in the ground! You are not an indigo child, you have ADHD!
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:00 am
I think my stance is similar to your San-chan, I'm not necessarily questioning reality but the way the reality is presented as love and light etc.
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:08 am
To the one that I serve Sanguina Cruenta It's not simply whether something is real but what they are. Fae are not small sparkly things with wings, they are not nice, and they do not live at the bottom of your garden. Dragons are not friendly, they do not view humans as things to be helped. I agree. Working with Dragons is all based on if the Dragons decide they want to work with you or not. There is never a guarantee that if you call on a Dragon they will answer. Thats one of the reasons why I treat them with such respect. I feel honored when they work with me. Sanguina Cruenta That's not to say people can't, or don't, legitimately work with these entities. But it does mean that a lot of people who think they do, don't. True. The problem then becomes how do you know who really is working with these beings and who isn't. How does one prove that they either do or don't work with these beings? Sanguina Cruenta There's a lot of stupid within Paganism. Of course, there's a lot of stupid generally, but it really seems to come out in full force in the Pagan "community". There's far too much "I believe it so you can't tell me I'm wrong!". I agree. With some beings like Gods you have mythology to back them up. Dragons are a little different. Sanguina Cruenta And that "rods" thing. They're moths, people! Moths! 2012 my a**! Ask the Mayans, not Sylvia Brown, she wouldn't know her a** from a hole in the ground! You are not an indigo child, you have ADHD! I will give my all
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:09 am
Well I can't agree with anyone calling neo-paganism a religion. Furthermore, this is nothing new. People must have pretty short memories if they think so. New age mystic bullshit was everywhere in the 60's for ******** sake. Open your eyes, there's a whole world out there! See the world, become familiar with it, and stop being so surprised by it.
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:13 am
To the one that I serve But is Newage the same thing as neo-pagan? I will give my all
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:24 am
When it comes to things magical, I tend to only really trust what I've experienced. I'll take other's suggestions and try to reach the same conclusion and experiences, but that'll be all up to me. As I think it should be. Just because I've experienced.. um.. Santa Claus, doesn't mean I should try to convince you that he's really real. He's real to me, and that's all that matters. (not really, just saying him as an example)
If you close your eyes and say because it's fantasy, it must not really be real, I think you're shutting yourself off from a lot that you might end up enjoying. You might enjoy it alone while people look at you like you're crazy.. but at least you know it's true. (which I suppose then leads to questioning your own senses)
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Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:08 am
zyzzva become familiar with it, and stop being so surprised by it. I'm not really surprised by it. It's just a topic of discussion i've never looked into before. Loona: I wouldn't have thought newage and neo-pagan were the same at all. I consider newage to be things like step by step guides to crystal healing and "reiki for dummies". Not sure if others feel the same...
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:22 am
Like I said, short memories. Oi. But I don't suppose there's anyone here who was alive in the sixties, or even the seventies for the most part. As for New Age vs Neo-Pagan, they aren't fully interchangeable or synonymous by any means, but they are closely related. Five minutes of research is more than enough to find sufficient examples of this. Furthermore, the reason I cited New Age as an example was not because it is equatable to neo-paganism, but because obnoxious people who walked around claiming that Gandalf and Frodo were real called themselves New Age forty years ago, but call themselves neo-pagan these days.
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:36 pm
I remember being disappointed when I read that article the first time, as yet another person doesn't quite understand that no, you as an individual human being shouldn't be making absolutist statements about what is and isn't real. I have no problem at all with anyone who wants to use modern mythology in their practice and poo-poo on those put down others for doing what resonates with them! If one is threatened by the idea of someone setting up an altar to Harry Potter, I think one needs to examine very closely the grounds for one's own religious beliefs and get a fresh perspective on things. Case in point:
Will others snicker and laugh at someone who honors modern mythological forms? Of course. Does it put forth a bad public face? Probably. But many people snicker and laugh at us anyway as they don't regard the old gods as being in a category that is any different from Harry Potter. To many, they're both imaginary and both utterly nonsensical. Let's remember this before we put down others, yo.
These things, I think, are only a problem for those with simpler ways of seeing Truth. Reality and Truth are awfully complicated beasties. Who the hell are we as individuals - or even as groups - to dictate what is and isn't reality/truth in any absolute sense of the term? Sounds pretty arrogant to me, and it isn't something I feel comfortable doing.
As for Neopaganism =/= New Age, that's pretty well established in the literature. Movements have different origins, different overall angles, and though they do crossover, not the same thing at all. Which is why it irritates me that Neopagan books are not in the religion section, but I don't see this changing any time soon until the publishers make a move on it.
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:40 pm
Starlock I remember being disappointed when I read that article the first time, as yet another person doesn't quite understand that no, you as an individual human being shouldn't be making absolutist statements about what is and isn't real. I have no problem at all with anyone who wants to use modern mythology in their practice and poo-poo on those put down others for doing what resonates with them! If one is threatened by the idea of someone setting up an altar to Harry Potter, I think one needs to examine very closely the grounds for one's own religious beliefs and get a fresh perspective on things. Case in point: Will others snicker and laugh at someone who honors modern mythological forms? Of course. Does it put forth a bad public face? Probably. But many people snicker and laugh at us anyway as they don't regard the old gods as being in a category that is any different from Harry Potter. To many, they're both imaginary and both utterly nonsensical. Let's remember this before we put down others, yo. These things, I think, are only a problem for those with simpler ways of seeing Truth. Reality and Truth are awfully complicated beasties. Who the hell are we as individuals - or even as groups - to dictate what is and isn't reality/truth in any absolute sense of the term? Sounds pretty arrogant to me, and it isn't something I feel comfortable doing. As for Neopaganism =/= New Age, that's pretty well established in the literature. Movements have different origins, different overall angles, and though they do crossover, not the same thing at all. Which is why it irritates me that Neopagan books are not in the religion section, but I don't see this changing any time soon until the publishers make a move on it. Well, I am ME, and I think it's safe to say that truthfully, You are YOU. xp However, in all seriousness, as Human beings, we will always be opinionated. It's one of the few truths of the world- that opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. And every 1 out of a billion babies is born with two assholes, so they are even more opinionated. razz
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:52 pm
Starlock, I understand your point and a fair one it is at that. I think I may have been a bit too quick to agree wih this person.
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Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:05 pm
To the one that I serve If one keeps in mind that Chaos magicians will use anything that they feel will work, then how bad is calling on a pokemon? I will give my all
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