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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:38 pm
Can anyone give me some information on the connection between runes and the closed Norse culture?
Loona mentioned to me in a thread that they're connected to the sacrifice made by Odin (I think), but my research has given me nothing but a lot of ??? above my head.
My husband uses runic symbols to make talismans and spiritual tools for my spellwork, but now I'm not sure if what we're doing is culture rape.
Any info would be appreciated! Thank you! (Please PM me with info if possible.)
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:10 pm
I'm sorry, but I am a little confused. If you are speaking of cultural appropriation and the Futhark, the only thing that comes to mind is to be sure you have a very indepth understanding of how the Mysteries themselves present in the runes.
Did that answer your question?
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:45 pm
Nordic culture is not closed. But if you don't understand the culture, the gods, there's no way to understand the runes. It isn't so much that it's culture rape to use them. It's really annoying, but it's more that you're NOT DOIN IT RITE. lol.
Historically the runes weren't used for divination that we know of. They may have been but we don't have information to that end. We know they were used for spellwork. They are energies and Mysteries. Without the background, you can't unlock those mysteries and learn how to use those energies. The issue with using them without understanding them is less an issue of culture rape and more an issue of you working with things you don't actually understand and possibly causing some damage.
They are very powerful energies and I know this from experience. They're not symbols; those symbols are, well, symbols of those energies. When we do spells normally, we raise energy and direct it. When you're using a rune for magical work you don't do that. You call on the rune and sort of funnel it towards what you want, but you have to understand the rune to be able to direct it and that takes a long time, lots of work, etc.
On understanding the runes. Take Uruz. Auroch. You can say "oh it means strength" yada yada, but what it means is "Uruz". It's ineffable. It's something you have to work on unlocking in your head. There are so many things to ponder on: what is an auroch, what did it mean to the Teutonic peoples, what roles did it play in their lives, what gods might it be connected to, etc. Until you understand that on that level I would not recommend trying to use the rune. That's why knowing the culture is important; without it, you can't know what the runes mean.
Because they are mysteries, and they are mysteries of a specific culture.
I recommend "Taking Up the Runes" by Diana S Paxson to start yourself off with. I'd also recommend at least making some sort of offering to Oðinn, because he did hang on that tree for nine days and nights for that wisdom and he shared that with us. It's only respectful to give him some thanks for that.
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:04 pm
I have never used runes, I just wasn't interested in them. I must say at the very least having an understanding of the gods couldn't hurt in the least for helping understand the runes. You never know what you may find when you just open your mind to them.
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:32 pm
Okay, that makes what I've read a bit clearer. Thanks especially to Sang, that cleared up a lot.
My problem is, I'm Pantheistic and my husband is Atheistic. So should I be more concerned with the energies behind the runes or still connect them to the deities? (I define a god or deity to be personifications of different forces and energies, since in different cultures there's different gods that represent almost the same things)
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Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:05 pm
Lupes_Darkness Okay, that makes what I've read a bit clearer. Thanks especially to Sang, that cleared up a lot.
My problem is, I'm Pantheistic and my husband is Atheistic. So should I be more concerned with the energies behind the runes or still connect them to the deities? (I define a god or deity to be personifications of different forces and energies, since in different cultures there's different gods that represent almost the same things) Not the energies behind the runes - the runes are energies. You can't understand them without understanding the gods. And personally I think it's disrespectful to use them without giving some thanks to Oðinn. They were hard-won, and sacred to him. If you've no interest in Oðinn, I'm just curious as to why you'd want to learn them. Look, essentially, they take years and years of study. More if you don't already have a grounding in Germanic religion. I can't guess why you'd want to use them if you aren't into Germanic recon, honestly. It's just too much work for something that won't mean as much to you personally as it would someone learning them to understand their gods and the mysteries of their religion. I mean, check out this rune-poem: "Dross comes from bad iron; the reindeer often races over the frozen snow." That's for Uruz. What does it mean? Why would you want to spend so long working it out? The Germanic cultures are open, but it's still inappropriate to take sacred things out of their cultural context. Not only is it not actually going to work without the context, but it's disrespectful to the runes as sacred things and it's upsetting to those who hold them sacred. I know your SO uses runes about which there is little information, and no available rune-poems as far as I know, but I still would not recommend it. I don't mean to come off blunt, by the way. We come across plenty of people who buy into Ralph Blum and company who have taken the runes and essentially turned them into an entirely different divination system. It's rife, and it's highly regretable. As an aside - the gods, at least those of the North, don't "represent" things. They're interested in things. They might have "spheres of influence". They have personalities, and likes and dislikes. Those might be the same as the likes and dislikes, or even duties, of gods in other cultures, but they're not the same entities for that reason alone. For example, the Romans had a habit of equating particular gods with those of their own, based on what they had in common. They linked Mercury with Oðinn - communication, ecstacy, travel. But not only have they very different personalities (and by extension, personal energies) they hold very different roles in their pantheons. Jupiter and Þorr, another example. I respect your views here, though I don't understand them wink
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Sanguina Cruenta Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:26 am
"THE ALL IS MIND; The Universe is Mental."--The Kybalion. Sang you answered that question better than I could. Thank you. I will study the runes at some point but not for a while. By the power of the mind much is possible
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Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:02 pm
This is a very interesting subject to me as a linguist. There is no mysticism in language theory, but practically all written languages are credited with mystic origins. Is this rune work entirely reconstructional? And does it attempt to reconcile with modern theories of language and archeological/historical evidence, or is it drawn entirely from literary sources (i.e. eddas and saga)?
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Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:55 pm
Okay, finally wandered back here...
Thank you, guys, especially to Sang. That explained a lot, and I think it would just be best to stick with amulets instead of runes (which my SO recently lost interest in. He can be fickle sometimes). I will look into the origins of the Gothic runes I have and perform the proper offering/ritual required as a type of recon, if possible. If not, then I will not use them in any more magic, I'd feel too uncomfortable.
Again, thank you.
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:03 pm
To any future readers: The runes can be used for divination and spellwork, but that was not their original purpose by any stretch of the imagination. They were an alphabet, the ABCs of the Fennoscandic (plus Iceland, the Faroes, Greenland, and Vinland) people, not a mystic tongue that only the seið masters knew. Furthermore, each rune of the Elder Futhark (as well as Futhorc and the Younger Futhark) has a poem to go along with it which has deep philosophical meaning.
Fehu Wealth is a source of discord amongst kin and fire of the sea and path of the serpent.
Uruz Rain is lamentation of the clouds and ruin of the hay-harvest and abomination of the shepherd.
Thurisaz Thurs ("Giant") is torture of women and cliff-dweller and husband of a giantess Saturn's thegn.
Ansuz Óss is aged Gautr and prince of Ásgardr and lord of Vallhalla chief Jupiter.
Raido Riding is of sitting a blessing and swift journey and horses toiling
Kenaz Disease fatal to children and painful spot and abode of mortification.
Gebo Generosity brings credit and honour, which support one's dignity; it furnishes help and subsistence to all broken men who are devoid of aught else.
Wunjo Bliss he enjoys who knows not pain, sorrow nor anxiety, and himself has prosperity and bliss and a good enough house.
Halagaz Hail is cold grain and shower of sleet and sickness of serpents.
Nauthiz Constraint is grief of the bond-maid and state of oppression and toilsome work.
Isaz Ice is bark of rivers and roof of the wave and destruction of the doomed.
Jera Boon to men and good summer and thriving crops.
Eiwaz Bent bow and brittle iron and giant of the arrow.
etcetera.
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:43 pm
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:44 am
There are a few poems which deal with the runes and don't really have an attributed author these are
The Anglo Saxon Rune Poem The Icelandic Rune Poem The Norwegian Rune Poem
The Anglo Saxon Rune Poem as recorded was likely composed in the 8th or 9th century and was preserved in the 10th century manuscript Cotton Otho B.x, fol. 165a – 165b, housed at the Cotton library in London, England. In 1731, the manuscript was lost with numerous other manuscripts in a fire at the Cotton library However, the poem had been copied by George Hickes in 1705 and his copy has formed the basis of all later editions of the poems.
The Havamal also contains references to the runes. I'll post up the Anglo Saxon Rune Poem and it's translation up...just need to figure out thich forum it belongs in.
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:33 am
The runes as magical tools would belong in the magic forum as mysteries and lore they belong in the main forum.
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