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 Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm
I went to a reading last night of a novel being launched right now. Just from the half hour of reading she did, there were at least five discrete and completely unrelated themes. It's only a mid-size novel, so this number of themes dismayed me. The ones I can place easily are:
- Medical experimentation on animals is wrong.
- Mandatory vaccination of soldiers is bad.
- Nature is a tool of the Devil
- Nature is beautiful
- Humans > everything
- Virii > humans
- Science triumphs over everything
- Children are important
It was dizzying. All this was from a fairly short reading.
Theme is one of the lasting parts of a work; if done right, the themes will last in the reader's mind long after the exactitudes of plot fade. So you want to pick just a few, and convey them strongly.
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:54 pm
What are common themes?
One you've almost certainly encountered is the theme of 'true love conquers all" - Shakespeare used it in Midsummer Night's Dream and A Winter's Tale (pop quiz - what is one of the two best stage directions ever?) and every romance novelist ever has used it in every single piece they have published (except the ones where they die and the theme is "true love lasts beyond the grave"). The persistent success of stories with this as a main theme shows that themes don't get 'overused,' the way a lot of people fear elements of their writing will be.
Some themes are timeless. Another timeless theme is "what makes us human?," though that one is more commonly seen in speculative fiction.
So it is hard to rule out a theme just because it has been done before.
And every story needs more than one theme, or it deteriorates into a particularly boring rant (or a 90-page Harlequin).
What most successful stories I've read do is collect at least three themes, and focus on all of them. The layering of themes allows for a richer reading experience, and for more analysis.
From what I've read, three seems to be the perfect number for anything shorter than an epic. I'd be happy to hear other people's thoughts, though.
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:00 pm
Themes can be either subtle or obvious. Examples of obvious themes include the aforementioned "true love conquers all" in romance novels and "Jesus/Aslan is the only way not to suffer horribly at the hands of Satan/sluttily-dressed-for-the-time-Witch" in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.
More subtle themes are harder to pick out, especially when one has spent the day reading about a beautiful thief with a mysterious past being swept off her feet by a Duke, but will come later, hopefully with suggestions.
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Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:02 pm
Exercise: Pick a children's story or well-known fairy tale and name three themes from it. Example: Quote: Beauty and the Beast - Self-sacrifice pays off - True love conquers all - Beauty is more than skin deep Be prepared to defend it.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:22 pm
Jack and the Beanstalk.
*chances have to be taken to gain wealth.
Jack's mother would have settled for several coins where as Jack took the risk on a few magic beans for greater wealth - this could be compared to today's climate where some people aren't content to just earn money, they invest (or gamble).
*it takes courage to get what you want.
Jack climbs the beanstalk three times, risking being eaten by the giant, to get what he wanted. This could also mean that people should persevere if they really want something.
*greed and how it leads you to do immoral things.
Initially Jack used the excuse that they were poor to steal from the giant. By the end of the story, Jack was lying, stealing and killing in order to gain what he wanted.
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:54 pm
phantomkitsune From what I've read, three seems to be the perfect number for anything shorter than an epic. I'd be happy to hear other people's thoughts, though. My personal view is that themes come as a consequence of strong characters. Each major character will embody or value at least one thing above all others. These ideals are what become the theme. Sometimes, it's a complex theme, such as my latest project that explores themes of leadership, primarily, both good and bad. But the main character is a leader, and his motivation is to live a happy life while fulfilling his public duties. His daughter, and heir, does not want to take his place, and uses her leadership skills to start a rebellion. So already there are two competing ideas right there. And I have many others each with a foil against it, for without the conflict, the theme cannot be put to test. So basically, I think a blanket rule of 'three themes' is less useful overall. Each character should have strong values ((Or have weak values as part of the theme they embody.)) and those values will speak to the readers who will write their own meaning.
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Man-Hungry Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:51 pm
Good thread!
The Nightmare Before Christmas
-Don't try to be what you're not: When Jack tries Christmas instead of Halloween, he almost gets himself and everyone else killed. But once he went back to being the Pumpkin King, he got the girl and lived happily ever after.
-Always try to right your wrongs: Jack saves the day by rescuing Santa Claus, who got captured because of Jack's mistakes.
-Obsession is bad for you: Tied in with the first one, but obsession was part of how Jack got himself into so much trouble in the first place. Obsession led him to want to be Santa instead of himself.
I love this movie. <3
I also like your ideas about strong characters, Punk. I never thought of it that way, but you're right.
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:08 pm
Ele: Excellent.
Punk: I agree with you in that I think characters can embody themes a great deal, but I think they also serve as foils and backdrops against which themes about interaction play out - like the 'true love conquers all' theme (which I'm going to keep coming back to, not out of fondness, but because it's the most easily pin-pointed theme in the known universe) requires two people, and it's their actions and interactions that portray the theme.
Scraps: I love the movie, too.
The second one, though, seems more of a moral than a theme. Why did you choose that one?
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:42 pm
I couldn't come up with anything else. xD
But seriously, I don't see much of a difference between morals and themes. A theme is an idea that stays in the readers' minds after they finish a story, but a moral of a story is supposed to function the same way, I think.
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Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:54 pm
phantomkitsune Punk: I agree with you in that I think characters can embody themes a great deal, but I think they also serve as foils and backdrops against which themes about interaction play out - like the 'true love conquers all' theme (which I'm going to keep coming back to, not out of fondness, but because it's the most easily pin-pointed theme in the known universe) requires two people, and it's their actions and interactions that portray the theme. But the theme is really two characters who hold love as their driving influence. If only on of them held love as important, it'd be less about love 'conquering all' even if they didn't fall in love. As I said, meaning comes from the reader, the writer presents characters with strong drives and they themes will reveal themselves. To bring it back to my work in progress, Leadership is a quality held by a number of my major characters, but each of them are driven to leadership for different reasons: One is driven out of honor, another of need, another of greed, and another of love. Each of them will lead differently based on these factors, and while the overall work is currently a 'tragedy', I don't intend to laud one form of leadership over the others [intentionally]. The only message I hope to convey beyond the story being fascinating has to do with the realities and needs of being a leader.
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Man-Hungry Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:54 pm
Scraps: I guess I see theme more as an idea, and moral more as a command; a finicky sort of difference.
Punk: Your story sounds interesting.
And to me, theme can be conveyed by character, but isn't necessarily so; setting can convey theme, as well (like the posters in the backgrounds of Watchmen), but I think that gets into whether or not setting is character.
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:06 pm
phantomkitsune I think that gets into whether or not setting is character. My very first thought as I was reading.
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Man-Hungry Conversationalist
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:15 pm
It's an interesting conundrum; I've been reading some articles about how North American, and Canadian in particular, authors put a lot more emphasis on setting than anyone in Europe. I don't think there was much comparison to Asian literature, which would also provide an interesting contrast. The regional variation of commonalities is interesting especially in the internet age.
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:21 pm
Good thread! The interesting thing about common themes like you described is that so many of them can be traced back to fairytales. There's a concept in folklore called polygenesis - it's a theory that states that the reason so many of our fairytales cross cultures is because there are underlying themes of human existence that everyone shares. We all need food so a common theme in fairytales is the fear that there won't be enough food to support oneself/a family. Anyway, I won't ramble on forever, but I'll move on to the exercise.
Cinderella - French version
- beauty is desirable
- authority of the ruling class
- a woman's role in marriage
Cinderella - Chinese version
- loyalty to family
- importance of the male in the social hierarchy
- generosity is rewarded
Cinderella - Native American version
- honesty is more important than power
- determination and self-sufficiency
- a man's role as a hunter and provider
Cinderella - Russian version
- OH GOD ITS A FLOATING SKULL SETTING EVERYONE ON FIRE
...what?
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:07 pm
Peter Pan- The original not the Disney Movie(Really, you should read this- it has some 'I can't believe that people read this to there kids' things in it. It's eye opening, especially if you watch the Disney Movie then read the book..)
Everyone has to grow up, even when they really-really-really-really don't want to
Respect your parents
Trust your friends and comrades, they'll come through
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