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 Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:25 am
Hello all! My name is Justin but if you wish may call me Papii or Jahdia my online names. I am very recently introduced to Paganism and Wicca. Two or three years ago my mom made friends on Gaia with a Wiccan and at the time I was like "Oh thats cool." But did nothing else. I was Atheist and pretty busy so I lacked the time. However maybe 5 months ago I was again introduced to Wicca and Paganism by a group of friends, and having found I needed something in my life I was open to it. I have always been a student of religion and loved mythology so I listened and found myself entranced. I now want to practice either, but I am not sure which is the right fit.
But before I get to the questions let me state the things I have been told and, see if I am on the right Path here.
My friend explained three things. First each person has a Pantheon of their own, which he stated was like the group of gods and goddesses your closest to and which you have connected to. Ones you whom you reflect and whose aspects you have found in yourself. Each Pantheon, these groups each person worships, has its own Head which is the closest to you. And the gods can be invoked for ritual, spell, etc.
Second every person is born of a certain element that decides your personality and such. These being Fire, Water, Earth, Air and very rarely Spirit.
Lastly, each soul has its own Occupation, something that regardless of time or place or anything that it will always want to do.
So thats what I have learned. So is that how the relationship works between us mortals and the gods? Is what I am heading towards Paganism or Wicca? And can you combine other stuff with it?
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:35 am
PersianPapiiChulo [/qMy friend explained three things. First each person has a Pantheon of their own, which he stated was like the group of gods and goddesses your closest to and which you have connected to. Not strictly true. While some people do find a cultural home, others worship two or more pantheons or deities from a variety thereof. Quote: Ones you whom you reflect and whose aspects you have found in yourself. Each Pantheon, these groups each person worships, has its own Head which is the closest to you. This is... strange. Has its own head? I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Like the Top God or whatever? That rather depends. And they're not always going to be the one you're closest to. Quote: And the gods can be invoked for ritual, spell, etc. Perhaps you can, but that doesn't mean you always should. Quote: Second every person is born of a certain element that decides your personality and such. These being Fire, Water, Earth, Air and very rarely Spirit. Highly flawed. There are elements, and we associate things therewith, and there are elements associated also with zodiac signs. Often your personality reflects those qualities associated with your zodiac element. Sometimes, not so much. Spirit is sort of within and of all the elements; it's not something people are. Quote: Lastly, each soul has its own Occupation, something that regardless of time or place or anything that it will always want to do. What religion specifically are you talking about here? This seems very particular to one religion or belief system, as it's not something I've otherwise come across. Quote: So is that how the relationship works between us mortals and the gods? Depends on the pantheon. Depends on the god. Depends on you. Quote: Is what I am heading towards Paganism or Wicca? Just so I am sure - how are you defining "paganism", and are you aware of what Wicca is? Quote: And can you combine other stuff with it? Could you clarify?
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:56 am
Sanguina Cruenta PersianPapiiChulo [/qMy friend explained three things. First each person has a Pantheon of their own, which he stated was like the group of gods and goddesses your closest to and which you have connected to. Not strictly true. While some people do find a cultural home, others worship two or more pantheons or deities from a variety thereof. Right. By Pantheon here I meant all the Gods, regardless of which true Pantheon they belong to, you worship. Quote: Ones you whom you reflect and whose aspects you have found in yourself. Each Pantheon, these groups each person worships, has its own Head which is the closest to you. This is... strange. Has its own head? I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Like the Top God or whatever? That rather depends. And they're not always going to be the one you're closest to. Head meaning the Head of your particular group of Gods you worship. Quote: And the gods can be invoked for ritual, spell, etc. Perhaps you can, but that doesn't mean you always should. This is true and I am aware of it. I am not going near that stuff any time soon. Quote: Second every person is born of a certain element that decides your personality and such. These being Fire, Water, Earth, Air and very rarely Spirit. Highly flawed. There are elements, and we associate things therewith, and there are elements associated also with zodiac signs. Often your personality reflects those qualities associated with your zodiac element. Sometimes, not so much. Spirit is sort of within and of all the elements; it's not something people are. Hmm how to explain this better. I suppose its just what Element your personality it is. Some people are more Fire-like in personality or Earth-like in personality. Quote: Lastly, each soul has its own Occupation, something that regardless of time or place or anything that it will always want to do. What religion specifically are you talking about here? This seems very particular to one religion or belief system, as it's not something I've otherwise come across. I am not entirely sure. This is something one of the group who is more individualistic told me about. I suppose its just his idea but the idea did appeal to me. Quote: So is that how the relationship works between us mortals and the gods? Depends on the pantheon. Depends on the god. Depends on you. Quote: Is what I am heading towards Paganism or Wicca? Just so I am sure - how are you defining "paganism", and are you aware of what Wicca is? I am mostly aware of what Wicca is. Its an Earth Centered, Dualistic religion that is mostly hereditary yes? As for Paganism I was unfortunately, know better now from reading around on the Guild, to sort of lump all the other Paths together. Wont happen again if I can avoid it. Is there some term I can use for the Paths in general? Quote: And can you combine other stuff with it? Could you clarify? By combine with other things I mean can I bring moral and ethical concepts from other religions? And I am sorry if I have offended anyone or anything like that. I am just trying to learn and clearly I didnt have much to go on from the beginging.
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:13 am
PersianPapiiChulo Right. By Pantheon here I meant all the Gods, regardless of which true Pantheon they belong to, you worship. I don't think that's a correct way in which to use the term. "Pantheon" implies relationships between the gods within it. A pantheon is a group, is one thing. Quote: Head meaning the Head of your particular group of Gods you worship. No. Can't work. You can't construct a group of gods from here and there and say "Zeus is in charge" because various other gods will have a major issue with that. Quote: I am mostly aware of what Wicca is. Its an Earth Centered, Dualistic religion that is mostly hereditary yes? No. It's a fertility-focused, initiatory and ditheistic mystery religion. It's not at all hereditary. Quote: As for Paganism I was unfortunately, know better now from reading around on the Guild, to sort of lump all the other Paths together. Wont happen again if I can avoid it. Is there some term I can use for the Paths in general? All Pagan religions are encompassed by the term "Pagan". The problem is when you assume they are necessarily at all alike. Quote: By combine with other things I mean can I bring moral and ethical concepts from other religions? That depends on the religion you want to syncretise them with. Quote: And I am sorry if I have offended anyone or anything like that. I am just trying to learn and clearly I didnt have much to go on from the beginging. No offense taken - though I do find your "construct a pantheon" concept rather alarming, I interpret this as flawed sources.
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:32 am
Yeah. I am thinking that would be a case of a flawed source. Now I can however worship Gods and Goddesses from various Pantheons yes? And what would I call that group of Gods and Goddesses?
As for Wicca, by hereditary I meant passed from parent to child or does this not happen? I am going to go with the assumption that the book I read, Simple Wicca, was way off for now and probably stay clear of it. What with the bad experience I had with my friends Coven I am not too keen on the Initiatory part.
As for synthesizing. I dont want to necesarily incorporate any of the religious festivals, holidays, rituals or etc of these religions into my Path, more so the concepts they have which I think are compatible with at the very least many Paths. They are Buddhism, Taoism and Zoraoastriansim.
I dont think he was trying to suggest I could create a Pantheon but rather that I was free to worship any Gods from any group I wished.
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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:42 pm
Maybe I am going about this the wrong way? It might be a good idea to make a Path Journal thing like yours to get our exactly what I believe now, so I can advance my learning later?
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:45 am
PersianPapiiChulo Yeah. I am thinking that would be a case of a flawed source. Now I can however worship Gods and Goddesses from various Pantheons yes? And what would I call that group of Gods and Goddesses? They're not a group, that's the thing. The fact that you're worshipping them isn't something that draws them together and puts them in one group. After all, you're not worshipping them at the same time in the same ritual. Quote: As for Wicca, by hereditary I meant passed from parent to child or does this not happen? I am going to go with the assumption that the book I read, Simple Wicca, was way off for now and probably stay clear of it. What with the bad experience I had with my friends Coven I am not too keen on the Initiatory part. Children aren't a part of Wicca. Parents might teach their children "outer-court" information, but nothing of Wicca proper. Perhaps when their children are grown, they will choose to be of the Wica as well, and perhaps not. As far as I know it's not common. Quote: As for synthesizing. I dont want to necesarily incorporate any of the religious festivals, holidays, rituals or etc of these religions into my Path, more so the concepts they have which I think are compatible with at the very least many Paths. They are Buddhism, Taoism and Zoraoastriansim. Syncretise. What are these concepts? It really wholly depends on what they are, and the religion you're trying to combine them with. There are forms of Buddhism that are very big on non-violence and peace; that wouldn't work well with Asatru. Personally I wouldn't recommend syncretism at all; you can practise a religion and hold other ideas outside of that system. Quote: I dont think he was trying to suggest I could create a Pantheon but rather that I was free to worship any Gods from any group I wished. Fair, but that rather depends. Different cultures and religions have restrictions upon worship and some gods will not accept worship from those outside of these closed traditions.
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:32 am
Sanguina Cruenta PersianPapiiChulo Yeah. I am thinking that would be a case of a flawed source. Now I can however worship Gods and Goddesses from various Pantheons yes? And what would I call that group of Gods and Goddesses? They're not a group, that's the thing. The fact that you're worshipping them isn't something that draws them together and puts them in one group. After all, you're not worshipping them at the same time in the same ritual. Quote: As for Wicca, by hereditary I meant passed from parent to child or does this not happen? I am going to go with the assumption that the book I read, Simple Wicca, was way off for now and probably stay clear of it. What with the bad experience I had with my friends Coven I am not too keen on the Initiatory part. Children aren't a part of Wicca. Parents might teach their children "outer-court" information, but nothing of Wicca proper. Perhaps when their children are grown, they will choose to be of the Wica as well, and perhaps not. As far as I know it's not common. Quote: As for synthesizing. I dont want to necesarily incorporate any of the religious festivals, holidays, rituals or etc of these religions into my Path, more so the concepts they have which I think are compatible with at the very least many Paths. They are Buddhism, Taoism and Zoraoastriansim. Syncretise. What are these concepts? It really wholly depends on what they are, and the religion you're trying to combine them with. There are forms of Buddhism that are very big on non-violence and peace; that wouldn't work well with Asatru. Personally I wouldn't recommend syncretism at all; you can practise a religion and hold other ideas outside of that system. Quote: I dont think he was trying to suggest I could create a Pantheon but rather that I was free to worship any Gods from any group I wished. Fair, but that rather depends. Different cultures and religions have restrictions upon worship and some gods will not accept worship from those outside of these closed traditions. Hmm. All this makes sense and works nicely. It just leaves me with nothing to work with at all. I am now highly not confused but not entirely sure which direction to head in or what to do like at all. Thank you though for your patience and help.
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Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:47 pm
Well, you seem to have some ideas about paths that you are interested in. Of the three you listed, how much do you really know about them. Is there more reading or research you can do? What is it about those paths specifically interests you?
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:38 am
Its just a few of the concepts and ideas in them that interest me. I could not make a path out of them each lack something specific that turn me off from pursuing them as a Path even though a few of the ideas appeal to me. Buddhism frowns upon deity worship which is something I want included in my Path. Taoism, too frowns upon deity worship but its very nature is paradoxical and somewhat chaotic which does not appeal to me as I need structure and order. And Zoroastrianism is too I believe its Henotheistic and there is too much praising of the chief deity that resembles closely to Christianity. Its too goody two shoes in a way as well.
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:43 am
There are theistic forms of Buddhism. I'm not sure what they're called, though.
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:12 am
Hmm. I will look at those too but I still believe I am looking for something more involving the Gods. I have always been fascinated by them.
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:55 am
Well, what about those paths do you like? Maybe we can point you toward something that might suit.
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:54 am
Ok. First I just wanna say thanks again to everyone helping me. I am going to put down, in alphabetical order because I am a nerd, what I like from each of these Paths, but I am still learning about them so I could be wrong, regardless though its still something like. I am also gonna include some facts about myself afterward that might help as well.
Buddhism-I like the meditation, discipline, and reflectiveness of this Path. I also like its goal, Enlightenment and the concepts of the Eightfold Path, not being attached to things, and that in the end your in charge of learning.
Taoism-I like its paradoxical nature and that if you understand the paradoxes you get at the truth. I also like its concept that reality exists outside of names for things and systems of catogorization and organization. The idea that everything is just an expression of the Tao appeals to me and the concepts of doing good for the sake doing good and Wu Wei, doing without effort also appeal to me.
Zoroastrianism-Zoroastrianism appeals to me because one I am Persian and this is an Ancient Persian religion. The concepts of the world being a battlefield between good and evil and our actions determining the outcome of that battle appeals to me. The idea that one should, I am roughly translating here its damn difficult to translate these things, do Random Acts of Goodness For It Is Good, Think Only Positive Helpful Thoughts, and Speak Only Words That Are Positive, Helpful and Thought Out also appeals to me.
Facts about me-
I am not certified OCD but I am OCDish. Am very serious, uptight, nervous and kinda paranoid.
I am calm but have a hard time relaxing of any kind.
I am lazy, but when I put my mind to something I am very determined, its just rare that I do.
I have a tendency to devalue myself, underestimate my self, etc. I have low self-esteem like most nerdy guys. I lack ferocity, strength or bravery and yet am obessesed with warriors and warrior culture.
I am very kind, caring and fairly generous. I always try to help.
I was once Atheist and quite content to believe in nothing. I think that I need to change that. I am also currently trying to turn around my life and be a better person and am hoping that finding a Path, along with what I am now doing will help and that I can be a healthier person emotionally, spiritually, psychologically and physically.
Again thank you.
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:26 am
Which gods are these that you are fascinated by? All gods in general, or some specifically? Researching these deities might be a good place to start.
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