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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:15 pm
Alot of my old writing is kept in old notebooks on my shelf, or scattered files on the internet. Do you keep your old stuff? Do you enjoy going back and reading what you wrote? Can you still see where you got your inspiration? What are the biggest changes you see between now and then? (Not including basic writing skill)
It... hurts me to go back. Its like I had no original ideas. Every time I watched a movie, I would be 'inspired' to write a new story, which would really just be the same thing with name and place changes. Now, things actually happen for a legit reason- people aren't getting into fist fights because someone said 'stupid', once. I have my own story, I'm not just retelling someone elses. Really, I just want to throw all old stories away, but my mother raised me to hold onto personal things, and maybe when I'm 40 I'll appreciate it. Thankgoodness she hasn't made a packrat out of me.
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:46 pm
I keep everything, no matter how bad it is. I am always improving the story and pulling old ideas and re-using them in places that better suit them.
I...tend to cringe at old work. I recently looked up some of my work on Fanfiction.net (same username). There are two stories there I could not get more than a few paragraphs without feeling immense shame. I still leave them up, though. Proof that I have improved. My newer works, while not without their faults, I am proud of looking over again.
Sometimes, I can still recall where I got a certain idea. Often, they "jump" into my head, though some come with some sort of stimuli---for example, I was listening to "Valentine's Day" by Linkin Park, and heard the lyrics: "And the ground below grew colder, as they put you down inside." I used to take that line figuratively: someone was making this person feel depressed about themselves. I then thought about this line literally, and had a thought that someone was buried on Valentine's Day, which triggered a scene with a widow and her child visiting his father's grave, which in turn gave way to a scene that may or may not make it into canon, but it gave me a strong idea of something to try later. Even if the loved one was buried on a different day, the emotion of the song and scene gave me an idea. Currently a useless one, but one that can be neat if I find a place for it.
The biggest change I see is my voice. I was looser and kind of silly when I first started. Now I am more controlled and serious (and I never use contractions in the narrative unless it is a first person). I also have clearly different word choice, and a different method of approach, and the way I express detail has changed too.
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Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:55 pm
I think we all have lists of good, but useless, ideas. Sometimes when I just get little 'clips' like that in my head, I'll add them on as a side note- maybe my main character is visiting a grave yard and sees the widow and child, which may or may not be symbolic of the character's situation. In fact, since I don't like having more than two writing projects to work on at a time, I squish alot of small 'side thoughts' into my main piece (of course, then I have to filter, so I don't end up cramming) What I really wanted to remark on was your change in expressing detail. I'm not a big fan of long descriptions- either they need to be really short, or cleverly hidden in the text so you don't hardly realize you're reading a description. In my old work, I made the awful mistake of completely stopping the story so I could throw in a paragraph about a character's appearance. Its distracting, uninteresting, and I actually don't like most of the characters I came up with five years ago.
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:01 am
I used to be really bad at setting up a character description right off the bat (and still occasionally fall into this trap). Even if they are never longer than two sentences, or purple-prosey, it can still be overbearing. Detail has been one of my bigger writing issues: I tend to put in too much, too little, or add something relevant, but put it in the wrong place. It is something I am really working hard to fix before someone points it out to me.
Just today, actually, I had someone read over part of a story, and she pointed out a descriptive detail that would work better later on. She was right. I moved it, all was well.
I still like a lot of my old characters; a lot of them are simply useless and have no place in any story at the moment.
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DesertRoseFallen Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:21 am
I've kept almost every one of my stories for the last 9/10 years. I cringe when I look back at them but I can also marvel at how much I have changed, not only my writing style but the maturity in my work. One thing I notice and loathe when reading someone else's work is something that just fit in. Most younger writers tend to put loads of stupid things in CAPS and have a immature attitude about the writing. That was reflected in my very old work. I remember almost every inspiration for a story, so...that is lucky smile
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Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:19 am
Nightmare, description might just be my biggest problem too. In fact, I tend to forget description... I tell myself I'll slowly throw it in there- mention the green eyes here, or the blonde hair there, but it doesn't happen. This 'person' that you mentioned- does she often read your work? I would like to find someone who would read and comment on my work. My younger brother will, but I don't get any real critique or advice from him cause he's not an experienced writer and... he just kind of loves everything I do (bless his heart). And although online support is fun and great, I need it in the real world too.
Desert, I did that caps thing. I have to resist the urge to erase it. I found I don't like comparing my old work to my new work so much. Rather than realizing how much I've improved, I just feel silly. I prefer to compare my work to other people's. I know that you're not really supposed to do that, but it actually turns out alright for me- I find out what they're doing that I'm not, and I usually do pretty good compared to 'them'. So I'm not left with this self doubt 'I'm an awful writer' feeling. I also remember most of my old inspiration, but mostly because I can just tell what movie I was copying. XD
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:11 am
Hiding description became my trick when I am not still falling to that stupid trap. As mentioned in the fanfiction thread, lines like "his fearful blue eyes," used sparingly, are a nice, sneaky way to throw in a bit of description without giving an infodump.
She does not read it often. The story I showed was the fic I posted earlier (she being another Bat-fan, this was relevant to my interests), and the reason I cut/moved two or three lines.
I am proud to say that I never really turned on the cruise control in my stories. I hate how capslock looks. If I use it at all, it is normally just joking with my friends, or if a character really, truly yells that loudly.
Aside from my description troubles, one of my other big problems when I started was not creating characters, but paper dolls, and they often contradicted each other. "This character is a princess who is going to be rescued." "This character saves her." "This character is the villain." And that would literally be the end of their characterization. I am pleased to say I quickly grew out of this stage.
Another issue I noticed is I hardly had any "breathing time" between action. I would literally rush into the next part. It all tied together, but there were no breaks. Actions do need some "cool down" time so the audience can register---one of my complaints with Deathly Hallows was that when some characters died, I did a double take and re-read to make sure I did not miss anything. I used to do the same thing.
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Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:30 am
I love looking back at stuff I wrote ages ago. Sure, it's all poorly crafted and loaded with plotholes, but I like to see the progress I've made over all this time. The manuscript I'm attempting to get published at present is around my 60th version. On this computer. Every time I made a huge plot change, I saved a new draft. I also gave it a new number every time I did a read-through/edit. Adds up fast, but you can definitely track the improvements.
There are scenes, though, that are better in the older version than the newer ones. That's what I'm usually looking for, because those scenes, and the writing around them, is usually some of my best. If I'm reading it, I'm more apt to write like it. Which is why I never write just after I've read something. Then again, mimicking an author also helps you tweak your own style a bit.
But I'm getting off topic.
We had something called "Young Author" books in elementary school. They gave us a little blank book--the pages were maybe the the size of a 4x6 index card--and let us write our own stories. Of course, they were written on that obnoxious yellow paper first, until all the spelling and grammatical mistakes were gone. But then we transferred it into the book and illustrated them. We wrote one each year from first to fourth grade.
I'm in my twenties and I still have them.
And they seemed to be cat-themed. Except they upgraded in each book. My mcs started as house cats. Then they were tigers. Then they were magical tigers. Then they were magical colorful flying tigers.
Ahhhh... If nothing else, old works are good for a laugh.
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Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:59 pm
General, cats are the best! Who doesn't love a flying tiger? I loved my elementary english classes the most cause I got to do creative writing like that. Into highschool, there was literally no creative writing whatsoever. Essays, essays, essays. Now I'm good at essays. When I read old essays from a few years back, I don't cringe like I do with my old creative writing.
Whenever I want to rewrite a paragraph/page/chapter/whatever I always keep the old copy at least for a short while cause it will often contain phrases or sentences I really liked. I hate it when I accidentally deleted something and I can't remember the phrase I loved. In the back of my head I know I'm not going to come up with anything as good.
Nightmare, I have the reverse of what you do; I tend to steer away from action, and when it does come along, its really short. Since they're my characters, it is intersting to me if they just sit around in the kitchen for a while talking about irrelevant stuff. But it bores everyone else, so I have to watch out for things like that. Sometimes I'm forced to use some paper doll characters, because I already know I need a certain kind of character in place, but I can't come up with something satisfactory. And I can't always be held up by the details like that. I think everyone's guilty of some very poor character building. I wouldn't even create my own characters- like I mentioned, I was all about the movies.
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:10 am
Phade: Sort of like your "Young Authors" books, I remember my first-second grade teacher would give us pieces of paper with a sticker in the corner (I got a blue hat and a ladybug. No I do not remember what I wrote). We were given twenty minutes to half an hour to just write a quick little ditty about whatever sticker we got (and sometimes we cheated and traded with other students. The teacher caught on and wrote our names on the papers in pen so we were stuck with what we got). I wish I kept them, but I threw them away years ago when I was cleaning out my room. To be fair, I was in...fourth grade? and felt they were just garbage. I kick myself now.
My third-grade teacher had a different kind of book report for us to do. We could pick an activity (one I remember was a star where we would draw a character in the middle, and write a descriptor about that character on each of the five "points." Another was a blue paper that looked like a fancy scroll where we had to write a brief synopsis of one of our favorite scenes). We would pick books and do an "activity report" when we finished---while I do not remember what the others were, I know they were tailored to meet certain aspects of the book: plot, characters, themes, climaxes, etc. I think these greatly helped me in how I read and maintain information today, as well as structure of stories.
We also "made" books in sixth grade. We had to write a story (I think minimum ten pages, max fifteen), and we actually made (with cardboard and this thin plastic-like coating) covers for our books, and went so far as to carefully glue the pages together and then glue them into the binding so they looked like actual books. I do not know where mine went (it might have been ruined and thrown away), but I remember mine was about a swamp monster and a bunch of kids trying to get out of the swamp alive. It was a lot of fun to both write the story and make the book.
Princess: Sometimes, a paper doll is all you need, especially for those, "only going to be in this scene once and never seen again" characters. I do put in "placeholder" characters just to progress, but I always go back and edit.
Certain members of the Writer's Forum would probably slaughter me for this, but part of what got me out of the "paper doll" habit was actually fanfiction (the other part being good teachers who helped with original work and stood their ground when they told me my work was terrible and showed me a few different approaches I could take to fix it). I have always taken it as seriously as my own work, and I learned quickly that paper dolls/bad characters would make others frustrated and angry. Plus, playing with established characters did force me to think, "Well, how would this character likely act in this situation?" It made applying that line of thought to my own work easy.
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:56 am
Nightmare, I've never been so close to my teachers. Yeah, we'd chat in class about irrelevant stuff, but outside of class I generally wouldn't associate with them (not in an 'I'm ignoring you' way, we just weren't in the same places). So I never thought much about asking them to read my work. Now that I'm in my senior year of highschool though, I guess its my last chance, and I think I'd really like to have some opinions from two teachers in paticular. I don't even remember the last time I was given a creative writing assignment in school. It was before seventh grade, I know that much... Your teachers did such fun stuff! Mine were just like, 'Write a one-page story about your pet'. I had fun, but I doubt the other kids appreciated it.
I feel like I've definitely progessed in character develpment, especially now that I'm always thinking about their specific reactions- it doesn't change the plot necessarily, but it changes the way events are caused and come about. What discourages me is when I realize I have a character I really don't like, but they are important to the story. So I end up dropping them, and leave a paper-doll character in their place. I just did this with my main villan. I'm sick of beautiful women being the bad guys.
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:43 pm
I consider myself lucky that I had a few teachers over the years that I was able to go to and have them properly critique my work (this is how I broke another bad habit I used to have: I loved that "graciously" word. XD). Honestly, I could trust their criticism much more than my friends' or family's. One of them inspired my first overhaul of my main canon because she pointed out so many contradictions and moments that simply made no sense (she also once told me she believed in everything---vampires, witches, fairies, etc.---because if they turned out to be real, she could tell them, "I was a believer! Eat/attack them!" I loved her).
Definitely talk to the teachers you feel you can trust. If they are worth their salt, they will help you.
Beautiful women tend to go both ways, but I agree. I hate it even more when the evil woman is the vamp, generally because you know that bad stereotypes are likely to happen (unless it was established before that the vamp in and of itself is part of her gimmick, and the character is aware of those stereotypes. Then it becomes a fun read because the character is savvy about it).
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:03 pm
Nightmare1 One of them inspired my first overhaul of my main canon because she pointed out so many contradictions and moments that simply made no sense (she also once told me she believed in everything---vampires, witches, fairies, etc.---because if they turned out to be real, she could tell them, "I was a believer! Eat/attack them!" I loved her). Best. Teacher. Ever. I agree, though. Sometimes you just connect with that teacher and they'll be all about helping you. I was complaining about writing a query letter to my friend in my creative writing class one day, and the professor got all excited and was like, "I'll look at it for you! I'll help you make it better and tighter and wonderful!" She was one of those types that was really crazy, really nice, and really bloody intimidating all at the same time. Perfect kind of person to go to for help, I think. As for beautiful women as bad guys, I can go either way. I'm not so much into what they look like as I am about their motives. Insanity is not an acceptable motive. If they're out to blow up the world, they need to have a reason for it. I could believe in an ugly woman who wanted to commit mass genocide so she'd be the most attractive woman left on earth. But I'm weird like that.
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:17 pm
Nightmare, I've definitely been inspired by my teachers. I actually had an english teacher who told me her story and asked for my opinion. Although in that instance, it was a plotline rather than writing, I was part of a small circle she read some written work to and it was quite professional. Thinking about it, I'm actually suprised I've never asked her to read my work. Now I want to get back to school and have a little chat with her (gosh dang this weekend).
General, I hate it when insanity is a motive. I think it shows a lack of creativity, and development of the villan. Still, your example with the ugly woman still isn't something that would satisfy me- its kind of a petty and very self absorbed reason to be so... evil. I more into differing political standpoints. Through out the world's entire history, countries have been at war for one reason or another, but neither country has ever just taken an 'evil' disposition. If you were to hear both sides of the story, you could probably find yourself siding with both. Yet the opinions are so different they find themelves going into war because of them.
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:30 pm
Neuschwanstein Princess General, I hate it when insanity is a motive. I think it shows a lack of creativity, and development of the villan. Still, your example with the ugly woman still isn't something that would satisfy me- its kind of a petty and very self absorbed reason to be so... evil. I more into differing political standpoints. Through out the world's entire history, countries have been at war for one reason or another, but neither country has ever just taken an 'evil' disposition. If you were to hear both sides of the story, you could probably find yourself siding with both. Yet the opinions are so different they find themelves going into war because of them. Never said it was a good example. Just a better/more believable motive than being certifiably insane. Hell hath no fury like woman scorned. 3nodding Anyway, I'm aware the world is not black and white. I never take that kind of direction in my stories (at least, not intentionally). There's always a justifiable reason behind every character's actions. No one's ever going to be like, "Hell yes, I'm evil!"
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