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 Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:19 am
i found this particular website and something about it jumped out at me! so clicked on one of the links and then even more on that page was sounding really familiar and then it dawned on me "that's the name of FbHG's new Guild!" this website didnt have anything good to say about Living Waters/ Ray Comfort / Way of the Master and it even gives sound reasons for not being a Ray Comfort supporter. Toxic WatersI almost always find myself agreeing w/ you on most doctrinal issues, ForgivenbyHisGrace... but no doubt we disagree on others, probably, i guess. Is this website misrepresenting Ray Comfort's beliefs? What do you think about what it says?
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Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:43 pm
I read through the website and it starting to sound like a Calvinist. As I was reading, I could actually do pick about some of what the author wrote with the light of God's Word. Quote: In the Gospel of John, we find the word “believe” 85-times, but the word repent is not mentioned even once. This tells us that the man who believes on Jesus, the Son of God, has also repented. And the man who has repented, has believed on the Son of God. There is much more than the Gospel of John. Isn't it interesting that John never wrote about repentance in the Gospel, but the same man said "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" in his 1st epistle? I believe is to repent and to believe. We cannot believe on Jesus unless we repent of our sins. It is not works, but it is of faith. It is not us, but it is the Word of God that drives us to repentance. "For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor. 7:10) How can we truly repent? By the Word that breaks our hearts. And when our hearts are broken for the Lord, He is very near. Quote: For Ray Comfort to teach that a sinner must first amends his ways, give up the world and make a surrender to Christ to qualify to place one's faith in Christ is a false gospel. That is absolutely not true. I studied Ray's method of teaching quite a bit. And I truly say that a man must realize what is sin, or otherwise, how will he know where he stands before God? The law of the Lord breaks hearts and it will draw them to God in repentance. "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." (Gal. 3: 24 & 25) What better than the Law that was hand down by God Himself. God wrote the 10 commandments for a reason. It is for them to show what His mind or His thoughts were and how He expect us to live. But in the Old Testament, there was a different Salvation. They work to obtain theirs by keeping the law and sacrificing animals to make amends for their sins. But in this side of the cross, the lamb of God was sacrificed for us so we do not need a sacrifice like in the Old Testament. However, the Law of God is still in effect. It shows us that we need a Savior and that we are undone without Him. And when the Law draws us to Christ, then we are no longer under the Law. Does that mean it has no effect? No. It means that the law is apart of us when we believe in Jesus Christ. I have been reading down the line and I almost disagree with a lot of what this author said. It saddens me that he doesn't take all of the verses in the Bible into account, especially about repentance. "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
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The_Lord_is_My_Shepard Captain
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:50 am
Quote: starting to sound like a Calvinist. Calvinist teach that man has nothing to do w/ whether or not he gets saved. They teach that man is powerless to choose to believe or not that it's already decided who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. The website doesn't sound anywhere near being Calvinistic, in my opinion at least. This lesson link goes into further explanation of the Heresies Of CalvinismQuote: "For Ray Comfort to teach that a sinner must first amends his ways, give up the world and make a surrender to Christ to qualify to place one's faith in Christ is a false gospel." That is absolutely not true. I studied Ray's method of teaching quite a bit. And I truly say that a man must realize what is sin, or otherwise, how will he know where he stands before God? The law of the Lord breaks hearts and it will draw them to God in repentance. Are you claiming that "realizing what is sin" is the same as "amending ones ways, giving up the world, making a surrender" ? Here's a couple quotes on repentance: "It is one thing to trust Jesus Christ as Saviour and quite another to surrender one's life to the Lord... The yielding of one's life or making Jesus Lord of one's life is not a requirement for salvation. That is Lordship salvation and a perversion of the Gospel." - Dr. Curtis Hutson "We have heard some well-known preachers say, 'If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins.' If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And it is unlikely that anyone has ever been saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever stopped sinning." -Dr. Curtis Hutson Dr. Curtis Hutson was a Baptist and in my opinion is one the wisest Preachers ever, but he taught so that everyone could understand it. He kept it simple, that's for sure. FbHG : It looks like we disagree on the definition of repentance at salvation. I don't believe one repents of all their sin at salvation. Do you? (maybe we dont disagree, maybe we're just having a bit of a misunderstanding of what the other believes?) They repent of the way they were going as far as their beliefs. They turn from the wrong way of believing, whatever that happened to be at the time or even if they didnt believe in anything, I.E. the agnostics, and turned to Jesus Christ. They turned from lies to truth. They don't drop all of their sins first and then come to Christ. After a person is saved, they should live a continual life of repenting, and that is evidence of them growing in faith and becoming less like the world and more like Christ. That's just how I believe concerning the doctrine of repentance, anyway . razz
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:48 am
Repentance is a sorry that can say so. "I was wrong. I have sinned." It is not just a confession, but it is a change. If we repent, God gives us the power to change and turn away from what is sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The meaning of the word, confess, is to make acknowledgment, to make confession; to disclose sins or faults, or the state of the conscience.
So we can add that definition to the verse. "If we make acknowledgment or to disclose our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And I believe that has the same power as when God says, "Let there be light." And look what has happened. There was light. Tremendous things took place.
When I first came to Christ, I was so broken. I fell on my knees and I repented of all of my sins. And I believe God will tell you what to repent also. He will put images or memories in your mind. But as I repented and ask the Lord to come into my heart to save me and to change me, I feel the burden of sin fell off of my shoulders and I was free. Free in Christ.
I believe repentance is necessary for Salvation. Because when a person repents, he humbles his heart. But when he does not repent, he is proud. He is not broken by the Word of God. And remember what God says. "God resisted the proud, but giveth Grace to the humble." He will resist of all those that does not repent, but to those that repent and are broken, He pour out His blessings.
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The_Lord_is_My_Shepard Captain
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:09 am
ForgivenbyHisGrace Repentance is a sorry that can say so. "I was wrong. I have sinned." It is not just a confession, but it is a change. If we repent, God gives us the power to change and turn away from what is sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The meaning of the word, confess, is to make acknowledgment, to make confession; to disclose sins or faults, or the state of the conscience. So we can add that definition to the verse. "If we make acknowledgment or to disclose our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And I believe that has the same power as when God says, "Let there be light." And look what has happened. There was light. Tremendous things took place. When I first came to Christ, I was so broken. I fell on my knees and I repented of all of my sins. And I believe God will tell you what to repent also. He will put images or memories in your mind. But as I repented and ask the Lord to come into my heart to save me and to change me, I feel the burden of sin fell off of my shoulders and I was free. Free in Christ. I believe repentance is necessary for Salvation. Because when a person repents, he humbles his heart. But when he does not repent, he is proud. He is not broken by the Word of God. And remember what God says. "God resisted the proud, but giveth Grace to the humble." He will resist of all those that does not repent, but to those that repent and are broken, He pour out His blessings. when you say that you "repented of all of my sins" do you mean that you confessed them and turned your back on sin as a whole or do you mean that you stopped committing all of your sins? Because i dont see how someone can completely stop committing all manner of sin on the day they get saved or ever for that matter. I dont believe that we ever stop sinning completely while we are in our sinful bodies. (once we are in heaven and changed to our glorified bodies we no longer sin - yaaay!) But i do believe our attitude towards sin completely changes. is that what you're talking about when you say repented of all your sins?
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:37 am
SARL0 ForgivenbyHisGrace Repentance is a sorry that can say so. "I was wrong. I have sinned." It is not just a confession, but it is a change. If we repent, God gives us the power to change and turn away from what is sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The meaning of the word, confess, is to make acknowledgment, to make confession; to disclose sins or faults, or the state of the conscience. So we can add that definition to the verse. "If we make acknowledgment or to disclose our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And I believe that has the same power as when God says, "Let there be light." And look what has happened. There was light. Tremendous things took place. When I first came to Christ, I was so broken. I fell on my knees and I repented of all of my sins. And I believe God will tell you what to repent also. He will put images or memories in your mind. But as I repented and ask the Lord to come into my heart to save me and to change me, I feel the burden of sin fell off of my shoulders and I was free. Free in Christ. I believe repentance is necessary for Salvation. Because when a person repents, he humbles his heart. But when he does not repent, he is proud. He is not broken by the Word of God. And remember what God says. "God resisted the proud, but giveth Grace to the humble." He will resist of all those that does not repent, but to those that repent and are broken, He pour out His blessings. when you say that you "repented of all of my sins" do you mean that you confessed them and turned your back on sin as a whole or do you mean that you stopped committing all of your sins? Because i dont see how someone can completely stop committing all manner of sin on the day they get saved or ever for that matter. I dont believe that we ever stop sinning completely while we are in our sinful bodies. (once we are in heaven and changed to our glorified bodies we no longer sin - yaaay!) But i do believe our attitude towards sin completely changes. is that what you're talking about when you say repented of all your sins? Repentance is a lot more than just confessing. It is also rebuke and to resist. Sometimes, we need to renounce our sins and reject verbally. Recognize our sins and to renounce it. The word "renounce" means to refuse to own. I like that definition. "I refuse to own that sin anymore." God will give us a new heart when we forsake our sins and to turn to Him. That is very crucial to repentance. Confessing our sins is not enough. We must want to disown the sin or we will fall right back into it again. And I do not believe that is where the Lord want us to be. When we forsake our sins, we are cutting the root of sin. But if somehow we are still struggling with sin, the root is coming back. I do admit that sometimes, Christians do sin. I do not believe we confessing and sinning repeatedly everyday. I do not believe if we confess of 1 sin, then we fall into it shortly afterwards, that is not what God wants from us.
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The_Lord_is_My_Shepard Captain
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Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:12 am
Okay , this may not sound nice, but i don't believe that you "repented of ALL your sins" when you got saved. i just refuse to believe that. I am willing to bet that you had committed sins that you weren't even aware were sins. How did you repent of those sins? Quote: I do admit that sometimes, Christians do sin. are you admitting that you still sin? If you still sin, then you haven't repented of all your sins, right? Or have you? Honestly, I'm confused because you said that you repented of all your sins. Here are a couple excerpts from a lesson written by Pastor Hyles on repentance and this represents my stance on the doctrine of Repentance: ~~~ ~~ ~ Over and over again the question is asked me, "Is repentance necessary for salvation?" Of course, this is of utmost importance. Anything that deals with the way a person can escape the fires of eternal Hell and go to Heaven to live forever is of vital importance. In this chapter, we will address this most important question.
1. First, we need to find what makes one lost. Please notice John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." It is very plain in this verse what makes a person lost. Notice the words, "he that believeth not is condemned already." A person who does not believe is condemned, so not believing is what makes a person lost.
Bear in mind, the word "believing" is the Greek word which means "to rely upon." When one believes on Christ, he simply relies on Him to save him and take him to Heaven when he dies. It is very plain here that what condemns a person is believing not. Then notice it says, "because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Once again, we are told what makes a person lost - because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. It is as simple as that.There are those who say we have to repent of our sins in order to be saved. No, we have to repent only of the thing that makes us unsaved, and that is unbelief. If a person needs to turn from his sins in order to be saved, what sins does he turn from? Does he turn from pride? Does he turn from selfishness? Does he turn from covetousness? The truth is, nobody can turn from all of his sins until he is raptured and he receives a body like the body of the Saviour. I John 3:2, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." According to Psalm 19:12, we do not even know all of our sins. David said, "Cleanse thou me from secret faults." What he is talking about here is being cleansed from faults he doesn't even know he has. A person, when he is first saved, does not know all the things that he is doing that are wrong, and if a person has to repent of all of his sins, where is growth in grace? Where is being a babe in Christ? Where does the carnal Christian fit in here?
Now don't misunderstand me. I am certainly for separation and for living a godly life, but the cleansing of our lives is not done by us any more than salvation is done by us. Salvation is simply repenting of unbelief, and believing, and letting Christ save us. We yield to Him to save us; He does! Immediately the Holy Spirit comes in to live. The Holy Spirit begins His work of cleansing in our lives. He is the one Who cleanses, just as he is the one Who saves. He is the one Who points our sins out to us after we are saved just as He is the one Who saves us when we are saved.
1. God says to the unsaved, "Repent of your unbelief."
It's very interesting that in I John the word "repentance" is never mentioned, and yet the purpose of I John was to give people the assurance of salvation. I John 5:13, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." Of course, repentance is certainly implied throughout the entire book, because the book tells us that what saves is believing on Christ (or relying on Him) to save, which, of course, implies that that person must repent of what makes him lost, which is unbelief.
2. God says to the saved people, "Repent of sin." This is done by the Holy Spirit as He comes in to live to remind us to take the clothes off the bedpost, the shirt off the chair, put the shoes into the closet, etc.
3. If a person must repent of his sins to be saved, of what sins must he repent? Can he repent of all of them? Isn't that sinless perfection or holiness? Isn't that salvation by works? Of what sin must one repent? He must repent of the sin that makes him lost, and that's the sin of unbelief.
4. If turning from sins would get you saved, then turning back to sins would get you lost. In Acts 16:30 the very simple question is asked, "What must I do to be saved?" This is the one time in the Bible where this question is asked. Now the answer to this question must be what saves a person. Acts 16:31, "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." There's the answer-belief. There is nothing about repentance here, except, yes, there is something about repentance, because you can't believe without repenting from unbelief.
5. If a person has to clean up his own life before he gets saved, we are back to Arminianism or salvation by works.
6. We cannot do what the Holy Spirit can do. The Holy
Spirit first convicts us of our sin of unbelief to bring us to Christ. Once He brings us to Christ, He comes in us to live. Romans 8:9, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spint of Christ, he is none of his." I Corinthians 6:19, 20, "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."
Then when the Holy Spirit is in us, He begins to convict us of things in our lives that should be changed. Then the Christian life becomes a constant repenting until we wake in the likeness of Christ.you can read the full lesson here ---> Misunderstood Repentance
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Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:12 pm
I don't believe that works are needed at all for salvation, though they are definitely a sign of salvation.
"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." -James 2:14-17
It's not so much that works are required for faith--just that, if someone really has true faith, they will have works. Works come with salvation, not the other way around.
(Of course, we can never tell as an outsider if someone is saved unless we're given a prophetic word; it's between God and them.)
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The_Lord_is_My_Shepard Captain
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Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:21 am
Ever Servant I don't believe that works are needed at all for salvation, though they are definitely a sign of salvation. "What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." -James 2:14-17 It's not so much that works are required for faith--just that, if someone really has true faith, they will have works. Works come with salvation, not the other way around. (Of course, we can never tell as an outsider if someone is saved unless we're given a prophetic word; it's between God and them.) That is true. We cannot work our way to God. But when we are truly saved, works will automatically follow. Faith and works are inseparable. But here is a question though, what are works and what is works through faith?
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