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Reply Christianity - From Catholicism to Gnosticism
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Sanguina Cruenta
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Eloquent Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:58 am


There's a new BBC series with an Oxbridge theologian showing at the moment. One in particular is on a subject I've always found quite interesting and mysterious: YHWH's pantheon. Particularly his wife, Asherah.

It's controversial, but the first part of that episode you can watch here.

Is anyone else interested in this subject?

Series on BBC2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:58 am


Sanguina Cruenta
YHWH's pantheon. Particularly his wife, Asherah.

Wut? neutral

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:03 am



NVM, I lost interest real quick.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:32 pm


Renkon Root
Sanguina Cruenta
YHWH's pantheon. Particularly his wife, Asherah.

Wut? neutral


They posit that at one point YHWH was known as El, and a part of whatever pantheon Baal is a part of. Canaanite or whatever. The woman makes an alright case for it, but I think more research is required. Her views require a particular interpretation of the text, which I don't really have an issue with as everyone has their own interpretation and she's been studying it long enough that I feel she can be trusted. But, it's still a hypothesis at this point, I think.

Sanguina Cruenta
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Eloquent Bloodsucker


oOGarrettOo
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Greedy Conversationalist

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:38 am


Sanguina Cruenta

They posit that at one point YHWH was known as El, and a part of whatever pantheon Baal is a part of. Canaanite or whatever. The woman makes an alright case for it, but I think more research is required. Her views require a particular interpretation of the text, which I don't really have an issue with as everyone has their own interpretation and she's been studying it long enough that I feel she can be trusted. But, it's still a hypothesis at this point, I think.
It's a neat hypothesis though. The whole thing was very interesting and informative. In a way it all really makes sense considering the location, era, and happenings. The idea that El was recreated simply to fight against Babylonian intruders actually sorta made sense. Very intriguing. I'd like to watch more of the series, personally.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:53 pm


I question if she really is a bible scholar. Following the bible's logic, if El / YHWH created Adam (the first man) and Canaan is one of Adam's sons, of course Canaan's descendants would share the same god with the Jews. The Jews descended from Adam too (albeit many, many, many generations after Canaan; they came a few generations after Noah even, that's way down the line). So of course Canaan's descendants (the Canaanites) share the same God as the Jews. She sounded a little too surprised.

The bible didn't lie about the polytheism of those early people. It states, time and time again, stop worshipping these other gods, they're powerless, they're your own creations, you make them out of wood, stone, they cannot walk; if they topple over they can't stand themselves back up, worship the living god instead of making images, etc, etc... and many of these people that "professed" to belong to YHWH were unfaithful and worshipped other Gods on the side. So, you get an amalgation of pagan traditions mixed with YHWH worship. Modern Example: Christmas. I wouldn't be surprised if years from now, people looked back and said Christians worshipped Mithra because that is what they are doing by celebrating Christmas; despite their denial, it has nothing to do with their Messiah. The early Christian church didn't even celebrate birthdays.

To use a little common sense here: the only ones who leave "artifacts" of this kind are pagans or newly converted ex-pagans that have clung to their idol-making-traditions. The true believers of El / YHWH know not to make images. The only evidence they leave behind are their descendants with their beliefs/scripture. There are a butt-load of admonitions against idolatry; it's forbidden. Here are a couple examples from both covenants:



Revelation 9:20 (new testament examples)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

20 And the rest of humanity who were not killed by these plagues even then did not repent of [the worship of] the works of their [own] hands, so as to cease paying homage to the demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor move.


1 Corinthians 5:11
Amplified Bible (AMP)

11 But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person.


1 Peter 4:3
Good News Translation (GNT)

3 You have spent enough time in the past doing what the heathen like to do. Your lives were spent in indecency, lust, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and the disgusting worship of idols.





Psalm 115:1-8 (old testament examples)
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)


1 LORD, you should receive the honor, not us.
   The honor belongs to you
   because of your faithful love and loyalty.
2 Why should the nations wonder
   where our God is?
3 Our God is in heaven,
   and he does whatever he wants.
4 The “gods” of those nations are only statues
   that some human made from gold and silver.
5 Those statues have mouths, but cannot talk.
   They have eyes, but cannot see.
6 They have ears, but cannot hear.
   They have noses, but cannot smell.
7 They have hands, but cannot feel.
   They have feet, but cannot walk.
   No sounds come from their throats.
8 The people who make and trust in those statues
   will become like them!



Jeremiah 1:16
New International Version (NIV)

16 I will pronounce my judgments on my people
   because of their wickedness in forsaking me,
   in burning incense to other gods
   and in worshiping what their hands have made.



Exodus 20:4-6
New International Version (NIV)

4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman


Sanguina Cruenta
Captain

Eloquent Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:12 pm


You seem to be under the impression that because she is a biblical scholar, she believes what the bible says. She doesn't. She studies the bible as a work of historical literature.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:18 am


Sanguina Cruenta
You seem to be under the impression that because she is a biblical scholar, she believes what the bible says. She doesn't. She studies the bible as a work of historical literature.


Ah, very true.

real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman

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Christianity - From Catholicism to Gnosticism

 
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