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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:10 am
As of July 1st Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic will be banned from standard play. The last time Cards were banned in standard was during the Old Mirrodin block. What is everyones thoughts?
Jace and Mystic Bann explainedGonna reuse this for the next Ban list but here is an update of the ban list for a couple formats Modern Blazing Shoal is banned. Cloudpost is banned. Green Sun's Zenith is banned. Ponder is banned. Preordain is banned. Rite of Flame is banned. Extended Jace, the Mind Sculptor is banned. Mental Misstep is banned. Ponder is banned. Preordain is banned. Stoneforge Mystic is banned. Legacy Mental Misstep is banned. Vintage Fact or Fiction is no longer restricted. Link here
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:41 am
Personally, to me, I do not think that the two cards are bad in standard. BUT i do think that the two put together are very very strong. I would much rather have a bann saying you can only run Jace or Stoneforge. The reasoning is simple.
First off: the event decks taht came with TWO stoneforges, which is probably the reason why a lot of people bought them in the first place. banning a card in the event decks only a week after it is released is poor business, and just isn't right, its clearly stealing from the customer who bought cards to play with. (but you can still play with the event deck if you do not modify it).
secondly: The land choice. seeing that all the sudo dual lands in standard as of now are allied colors. the two cards share a dual land, so no wonder people would be playing with them. it is very powerful, to have your turn 5 spell on turn 3, and then continue to protect them with counter magic.
Third: people RARELY played with equipment in standard as much as now BECAUSE of stoneforge. Yes the living weapons do help because you get immediate use. however, without the living weapons, things such as the swords will need to be ran as a 2 or 3 of, and if you have 3 of the same on the field, it is relatively useless if you do not have the mana or the creature for it.
fourth: the problem is cawblade, right now cawblade owns the boards. however jund did have the same effect on the board as well. they did not ban jund at all. however it is agreed by most people that Jund's main powerhouse was Bloodbraid Elf. the problem with cawblad is that it has a very GOOD curve. turn 2 stoneforge, turn 3 cheat batterskull onto the field. turn 4 jace. Or turn two stoneforge, turn 3 squadren hawks, turn 4 jace pitching the hawks to brainstorm for more gear. like most decks with a good curve with great spells, They become the best deck on the board. BUT the major diffrence is that in cawblade you DONT lose card advantage nearly as much as with jund.
Fifth: the price of cards should NOT EVER be a reason to ban a card. a card is expensive because people want to play with it. So most people who can not afford a playset of JTM (me included) should not be upset at the people who rigorously traded for them or even bought them with their money. If you are playing in large events you PLAY with cards that are good and costly.
I am NOT in favor of the bannings of ANY card in standard unless it ruins the metagame. although Cawblade decks have more than 75% of the board right now, there are MANY ways for all the decks to deal with it cheaply and effectively. Black-red Vampires are a deck that IS favored vs cawblade. because we ARE in mirrodin in standard, all decks should run a form of Artifact hate, or on spot removal in the mainboard or standard.
of course there are a LOT of counter-arguments to me in the link and in others opinions. I do think banning cards are sometimes needed, but not with these cards.
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:12 am
To me, it was only a matter of time until JTS was banned. There have been two people that ragequit magic in my friend circle JUST because they weren't able to get a Jace. They spent almost all their money on Worldwake fatpacks, boosters, anything they could get their hands on with the Worldwake logo. XD They didn't get anything good. This is partly the reason why my newbie collection has been growing.
But yeah. I don't think Stoneforge Mystic is powerful enough to be banned, but Jace...to me, he's a gray line. Turning someone's hand into their deck is pretty...yeah.
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:56 am
so quit stand and now play legacy/extended/ vintage...which all still use him! Jace wasn't broke until the made cards that helped protect him, gave off combos with him, etc. Banning cards in standard isn't right but the meta was unhealthy! I own a set of JTMS and Im not raging I was a smart consumer and bought him when he was 35 a pop...sorry to all of you late on that train. I hope wizards makes a fair 3.0 in the future because I love his story, but Im not going to rage at wotc. With the problem of Jund there were in fact other decks still topping and many variations of jund, not like caw blade. Currently in standard we had4-5 decks that were topping 8 but not winning, until recently the events at a scg open where vamps won, still the meta is unstable and unhealthy.
Honestly we only had three months left to play him in standard any way.
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:19 am
of course, if they banned the two in all formats then I would hate it, they are still good in legacy. But it wasn't jaces ultimate that was the problem, his first 3 abilities are the problem. fatesealing when your opponent is land screwed. Drawing a free card with brainstorm, and unsommon built into him, he had all the BEST blue spells built into him.
of course we only have 3 months with them which isn't too bad of a bann. the event decks are the real problem. cause why have an event deck that you CAN"T play in standard tournament? just waiting for the product to hit the shelves before the ban really irritates me.
I'm not gonna quite magic or standard, I don't run JTMS or Stoneforges.
I do know however that the twin deck, and valecult will top the boards now.
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:02 pm
I think the problem personally is with the players themselves. When in a competitive format, you have a handful of people testing and homebrewing ideas, trying to balance out color and consistancy, then you have everyone else who's playing an exact build or an almost exact build that's a riff on a successful build simply because they wanna win. There's no sentimentality involved, they just wanna kick a**. I think that if people were willing enough, they could come up with a deck that would counter caw blade and still be versatile against the minor rogue builds.
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:09 am
Ash Badguy Faust I think the problem personally is with the players themselves. When in a competitive format, you have a handful of people testing and homebrewing ideas, trying to balance out color and consistancy, then you have everyone else who's playing an exact build or an almost exact build that's a riff on a successful build simply because they wanna win. There's no sentimentality involved, they just wanna kick a**. I think that if people were willing enough, they could come up with a deck that would counter caw blade and still be versatile against the minor rogue builds. Im sorry but when you play for money it is all about the winning, sorry.
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:44 pm
that is true, in tornements it is all about winning, however in casual play i do see where ash is comming from
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:51 am
Im sorry to all the casual players out there, but your argument of price is in valid. I bet some of you own a flat screen tv or a ps3 or 360...to me thats a waste of money.
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:41 pm
Ok, first the thing thats going to get everyone angry/jealous: I got Mindsculptor in the first Worldwake pack I opened. From that moment, I knew the card was going to have a short life span in play.
I like the reasons given for banning the two cards. Unless Im mistaken, both were banned (Stoneforge's exception in the new event packs not withstanding) not only for being overpowered, but also because every player that placed in one such or other tournament had a playset of each in thier decks. It takes the flavor out of a game when everyone is playing the same damn thing. No variety when everyone is playing the same cards when a timely placed Howling Echoes can screw you over completely.
Im fine with it. What I find hilarious, is that the new Jace coming out in Core 2012 seems to be again ridiculous in power.
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:56 pm
Bump Update for September!
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:14 am
Out of all the Bans in my opinion I dislike Banning Green Sun Zenith from modern. it felt rushed because 12 post "looked" dominant the bans since JTMS in standard, seem to be pushing all the "best" decks out of the top. Cawblade in extended was massively hurt in this months Ban. All five new banns are cards from cawblade. Mentalmistep saw play in almost every top deck in legacy, so who didnt see that one comming? I disagree with the MM ban a little bit, seeing as it's still easy to play around. it didnt hurt elves too much even though it was filled with 1 drops, but it did hurt decks that pushed for aether vials such as goblins and merfolk. Greensun isn't bannable in modern, and it feels that the bann was strictly based on the fact that all 12post decks ran 4 of these. cloudpost i saw a lot of people complaining and although i do agree with this being the next "must ban card" I do not think it was time for it to be banned. I think they could have waited for people to adjust and figure out if there IS a way to deal with the 12 post deck first. basing a ban on one major tornement is bad. It was not that dominant in the tornement, but it was most played in the tornement. Twin and Zoo being the next top decks. Follow this link for info about 12 post in that tornement here it was highly anticipated that Zoo or twin would win the event, so much of the decks Sideboards were meant for Zoo and twin. I was very surprised that some of twins pieces were not banned besides ponder or preordain (which harms other decks as well) I would much rather see banning on modern after a couple more events. Look at how long it had taken for survival of the fittest to be banned? of course these are just some ideas to ster up some discussion. Chat away fellow wizards!
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:23 am
I'm surprised that they didn't do anything to dismember. It causes a lot of good cards to be pushed aside because it fails the 'dismember test'.
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:02 pm
sky_rider19 I'm surprised that they didn't do anything to dismember. It causes a lot of good cards to be pushed aside because it fails the 'dismember test'. I like dismember in the format so far, i think it helps all decks have a Removal spell. and it does deal with the twin deck very very well and zoo. A lot of the bans are cards from the top "teir" decks that have seen play consistently. Actually magics ban rate seems familiar to YugiOhs ban ratio. hmmmmm conspiracy >o
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:52 am
Tagg the Terror of Death sky_rider19 I'm surprised that they didn't do anything to dismember. It causes a lot of good cards to be pushed aside because it fails the 'dismember test'. I like dismember in the format so far, i think it helps all decks have a Removal spell. and it does deal with the twin deck very very well and zoo. A lot of the bans are cards from the top "teir" decks that have seen play consistently. Actually magics ban rate seems familiar to YugiOhs ban ratio. hmmmmm conspiracy >o Apparently a lot of pros don't like that all decks have a removal spell. go figure.
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