|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:40 am
This is going to be a real debate...I hope pirate .
What I want to know is who decides...and who defines the boundaries of our magickal ethics.
Let me begin by saying that EVERYONE has a darker side to their personalities...but do we truly try and understand and cope with them?
Just because some practices seem less moral than others doesn't mean they are. But then again, what people did many years ago, e.g. Cannibalism, is not viewed as moral today, where it was a great honour to some before.
What is the point of all this rambling you ask?
Well, tell me what you think about what's good and bad...where we shoudl draw the line on our practices, or where we shoudl explore into the darker side of magick...and not just for the lust of power: for learning and experience.
Not all shadows consume us, not if we have a candle. biggrin
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:05 am
i've never really thought about that... my dad used to be into satanism etc etc which i didnt agree with, and still dont... i dont agree with blood sacrifices, as in animals or other people, but i havent thought about doing it myself before. in some cases, i dont agree with sex as a part of magick, but that would only be if it wasnt completely consensual... and i dont like love spells that are directed towards certain people, because its manipulation. if i think of anything else to go here, i'll post it later on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:06 am
i suppose i would have to research more into things myself to form a completely solid opinion on them, though...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:00 am
I think that any spell that interferes with another's free will is amoral. This can cover a lot of things, but is a very fine line. For instance, since it's Valentines day, love spells. If you are using a spell to force someone to love you then that's bad, however if you are only using the spell to, say, open his/her mind to the possibility of loving you then its not bad, because they still have the choice to love you or not.
I belive that blood sacrifices aren't right because the animal, I'm sure, doesn't want to be killed. It's different when you kill an animal to eat it, becuase that's just the circle of life, and it's necesary that we eat food in order to live. It is not necessary that we have blood sacrifices to live. If you wan't to use your own blood to seal a spell, then I don't see a problem, but you really need to be careful about being hygenic and not contracting horrible diseases (harm none includes yourself.)
I personally belive in following the Wiccan Rede, which in its shortest form says "Harm None." So anything that causes harm would be out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:16 pm
Well, this is definitely a well debated topic. I believe in the Wiccan version of spell morality: Don't harm anyone, free will included. It's simply because I believe that it is pretty well impossible to hurt someone, or interfere with their lives, for moral reasons. Of course, sometimes the universe does need a bit of a "push" when it comes to returning the actions of someone, but that doesn't make it moral, it simply makes it just.
As for our dark sides, I know mine quite well. I believe that the only way we can truly control ourselves, is to know ourselves. If we do not know what we are capable of, how can we stop ourselves from doing it? Of course, this also brings in the risk of knowing that you can do it, therefore in a moment of strong emotion, doing it. But I try to the fullest of my abilities to control myself. Back on the darkness though, it's usually larger than we'd like to admit. I've seen my darkness, and it's something I do not want to let out into the world.
I do, however, like your comment on exploring the darker side for knowledge, and not power.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:02 pm
well in my view is really you set your own ethics really i mean you don't have someone telling you DONT preform blod sacrifice or dont use sex to help magic but do you really want to...the read say do as you will as long as you harm non well i know a ton of people that it wouldn't harm if i bit a chunk of there skin off theyd rater injoy it(EWWW) but i deffintally WONT so i feal that you don't really have them set that you creat them for yourself really
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:27 am
Well to be honest, I found the whole "Harm None" rule a bit silly. I do apologize if I offend anyone...but my controversial viewpoints often do...which is kinda my point.
I think in Life we do hurt people without realising it, and I know that some people think of the rule as not doing it conciously, but still...to grow as people I think we need to experience hurt in ourselves and others.
Maybe I'm just evil? Well, that's for another thread I feel.
I believe that some people need to get their "just desserts" and would give it out. I think the thing with cursing and stuff (again, I haven't actually done it) is that if you feel committed to your cause, you should be prepared to get the possible threefold back-fire that could happen. And if you can say that, then your punishment is probably just...
...or you are a lunatic. Again....that's for another thread.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:27 am
jackdawking Well to be honest, I found the whole "Harm None" rule a bit silly. I do apologize if I offend anyone...but my controversial viewpoints often do...which is kinda my point. I think in Life we do hurt people without realising it, and I know that some people think of the rule as not doing it conciously, but still...to grow as people I think we need to experience hurt in ourselves and others. Maybe I'm just evil? Well, that's for another thread I feel. I believe that some people need to get their "just desserts" and would give it out. I think the thing with cursing and stuff (again, I haven't actually done it) is that if you feel committed to your cause, you should be prepared to get the possible threefold back-fire that could happen. And if you can say that, then your punishment is probably just... ...or you are a lunatic. Again....that's for another thread. Well, we harm each other without realising it, of course. That can't really be debated. But, I think the Reed is more to say "Do not purposely harm someone." That I can agree with, to a certain extent. I try to follow the way of the Warrior, so if someone does go where I have to physically hurt them (putting my friends, family and danger, for example), then I won't hesitate to do so. And at times, I also agree with "giving the Univers a little push". If anyone doesn't get this, I pretty well mean that, at times, the Univers takes its own sweet time getting back at people. Well, for these times, if you believe the back-fire is worth it (careful, some people aren't worth the trouble, no matter how hellish they can get), then it's occasionnaly right, although not ethical. P.S. We experience pain in our everyday lives, to lesser or greater degrees. Maybe one day, we remember a friend who moved away three years back. Maybe another day, that same friend returns, only to hate you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:47 pm
Actually I know a couple of people who are Stanists, but not in the sense of animal sacrificing, Devil worshiping types. I shall try to recover the info link I got once >.>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:02 pm
Okay, on ethics I have to say that each person should set for themselves their own guidlines. While many people would tell me that manipulating people is imoral, I really don't care.
By the laws of nature the most fit are the ones who survive and dominate. In human history and even in the interactions between animals, it is the strong and the smart that dominate. It's all about power. Either you have it or you don't. If you have it, good for you. If you don't, well too bad, you're screwed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:44 pm
Tenaku Actually I know a couple of people who are Stanists, but not in the sense of animal sacrificing, Devil worshiping types. I shall try to recover the info link I got once >.> same here. well, someone who was a satanist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:13 pm
Delraun Okay, on ethics I have to say that each person should set for themselves their own guidlines. While many people would tell me that manipulating people is imoral, I really don't care. By the laws of nature the most fit are the ones who survive and dominate. In human history and even in the interactions between animals, it is the strong and the smart that dominate. It's all about power. Either you have it or you don't. If you have it, good for you. If you don't, well too bad, you're screwed. Well, it also depends on how you use this power. You can use it to aid those around you, which is the foundations of society (the pooling of resources to make a group stronger). Or you can use your power in the sense of nature, in which the strong dominate. Either is the choice of the wielder, although I believe in using the power I have to defend those weaker than myself from others who wish to dominate them. To Tenaku+Psychotic Faerie (could it be Fae or something, from now on?): There are different forms of Satanism. The classic worshipping of Satan, and also there is a belief which runs along the lines of Atheism, in the here and now, and our lives are what are important.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:20 pm
WellThen Either is the choice of the wielder, although I believe in using the power I have to defend those weaker than myself from others who wish to dominate them. *shrugs* I guess it's because of situations like that that I'm cursed with an honor code. I don't force my will upon others, but I will not hesitate to metaphorically move someone out of my way. And much of the mental manipulation I have done, sadly, has been to prevent conflicts. So I do understand you're stance. And I'm cursed with a conscience, but the natural method is how I usual act. I'm more powerful than everyone I've met in person except for one guy whom I can't even sense at all. I may be more powerful than him, but I can't tell. I don't force people to do what I want, I just tend to be more...influential. And most sensatives know better than to give me crap. I used to be the quiet kid who got jumped after school, so for me this is a nice change of pace, and having been at the bottom myself I don't intend to put other's in my shoes unless I think it will turn out for the better, and even that is rare. While what I do might be called medling, I do it with good intention. But then: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." *shrugs* But thanks for giving me something to actually think about and a new reason for intospection.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:09 am
WellThen There are different forms of Satanism. The classic worshipping of Satan, and also there is a belief which runs along the lines of Atheism, in the here and now, and our lives are what are important. i'm not sure what form of Satanism it actually was. the ex-satanist had a satanic bible and ritual book, and on the back of the bible was a picture of Anton LaVey, so i'm assuming actual Satan worship. and, yes, Fae's fine. people here call me fae anyhow!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Childhood Dreams Vice Captain
|
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:26 am
-Psychotic Faerie- WellThen There are different forms of Satanism. The classic worshipping of Satan, and also there is a belief which runs along the lines of Atheism, in the here and now, and our lives are what are important. i'm not sure what form of Satanism it actually was. the ex-satanist had a satanic bible and ritual book, and on the back of the bible was a picture of Anton LaVey, so i'm assuming actual Satan worship. and, yes, Fae's fine. people here call me fae anyhow!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
