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Snapcaster mage, I've opened like... 12 of them he's a cheeky little man.

...I envy your luck tagg...

Yeah I know, I got rid of the SMs for 25 during worlds. Liliana of the veil's cost would not have held up to the 80$ price for long. I got ride of my playset at worlds for a playset of Bob, willing to do that trade any time of the week.

I have bad luck with packs, just this set was actually treating me good.

well yeah, but in a competitive aspect, Mindslaver has nothing on lilliana. She is very VERY good in legacy,modern , and competitive decks. but she only fits in certain decks. It is not like Jace the mindsculptor where you can put him in ANY blue deck and the deck will become better. Lilliana is the opposite, you have to play a deck that uses the graveyard to get the most out of her you can't just put her in any black deck.

I am a big fan of planeswalkers in mtg now, at first i felt like it was dumb, but it is now a nice staple (although the prices on these guys when they are release are wayyyy too large). I love nicol Bolas, I remember playing him when 5 color control was "good" and used him with cruel ultimatum.

As far as table top mtg or casual FNM, liliana wont be seeing too much play.

i am talking about liliana of the veil too biggrin D first lilliana is crap and is a mediocre casual card (i remember when it was 30$ when it first came out and then dropped to 5$)

I love mindslaver as a card, it is fun to use their cards against them and tap them out mind slaver is good and all, but only as a casual card.

liliana of the veil was not worth 120 EVER. Jace is understandable at 60$ because he is just good. I expected her price to drop to 20 and 15 when it rotates out(unless there is a kick a** modern/legacy deck that owns everything).

there is a reason why cards cost a certain value, but it is always safer to buy the costly cards 3-6 months after release so it's price can stabilize. it is almost 95% of the time true that they will drop in value.

Garruk the relentless is okay. the one from M12 is significantly better.

the thing with the two garruks is that both provide board advantage without really hurting themselves, such as making creatures. Look at it this way, the first garruk was considered the best plainswalker during the lorywn set (first lilliana was $20 but then dropped to 5$ soon after whereas Garruk was 8$ and went to 15$). of course the untap 2 really made him shine, but the reason why he was the best was because he could activly protect himself by making a body whereas no other walker could. that one abbility was a minus. the new garruks are Plus or zero abbilities to make a body, so not only are you working twords his ultimate, you are activly making bodies on the field without losing additional cards.

garruk relentless however is not too good because it only makes a 2/2 wolf, and it takes way too much work to get him to flip, and his abilities require you to lose board position (creature cards put into the yard by having them die), which green isn't suppose to do. (if anything they should have done -2 discard a creature card and search your deck for a creature AKA surrvival of the fittest) and there are much better things to do on turn 4 then cast relentless, like sollem simulacrum, which lets you play primeaval hunter and gains you card advantage.

Primival hunder is just so much better. his +1 makes a 3/3 body, his -3 lets you DRAW cards(with dungrow elder you are gonna draw 5 which is what people play) and his ultimate... well no walkers ultimate should ever go off because when it does you should win the game. but his ultimate is easier to get to BECAUSE his +1 actively protects him.

Playability of walkers in a competitive enviorment are based on their non-ultimate abbilities. Look at Jace the mindsculptor, it was not because his ultimate was REALLY good (-12 is a real long investment and rarely goes off). jaces first 3 powers let you 1 fateseal your opponent and let them have lands on top, brainstorm yourself and gain massive card advantege and deck manuverability, and protect himself from any creature


with garruk the relentless it justtakes too much time to get him to flip when most games end(or should be over) on turn seven.

I welcome all conversations ^^ anyways my view on the two garruks are in standard/modern/legacy MTG, not casual, so here's a different way for me to express my view. HOWEVER I am not saying that mine is the whole set in stone "I'm right your wrong" deal. both are essentially good, but my preference is Primeval hunter.

First off with the ultimate we'll just naturally assume that no ultimate should ever go off, so his 6/6 and the trample thing should be thrown out. In competitive MTG it is widely accepted that if an ultimate goes off, the player who has the ultimate going off should already have enough of an advantage to win. if we compare both ultimate yes relentless is a lower cost however it does not win you games unless you sac your cards in hand(creatures) to fuel your ultimate, if you look at Chandra ablaze which has a similar effect, she was significantly bad because you had to waste your hand to use an ability, relenteless's ultimate has that kind of effect if you get what I mean, which is why I feel that have 6/6's fill the board and spending an overrun(1 card) is more potent then relentlesses ultimate, regardless, ultimates should never go off.

Now next ability, we will talk about garruks token generation. Yes the 1/1 deathtouch wolf is significantly better than a 3/3 beast hands down vsing other cretures. however the 2/2 is nothing verses a 3/3 so we will compare the 1/1 black wolf to the 3/3 beast. Although your argument with doom blade is correct (in terms of the wolf can not be killed by the blade), I would happily trade a card in my opponents hand for a token (I will touch base on this with the card draw). In terms of which can hurt what, both would kill each other if combat is dealt, however the 1/1 can kill all things verses the beast. but most people would deal with the wolf before further attacking and losing a card. also a 3/3 is essentially a wild nactle, which is significantly better than a Typhoid Rats which is the 1/1 deathtouch wolf. that is a reason why Typhoid Rats is not played in modern or legacy but wild nactle is (but the 3/3 cat did get banned in modern recently XD)

Now lets look at the second abbility we'll compare the search ability on relentless to the card draw on hunter. we will assume that relentless's ability to fight is to get him to flip, just for arguments sak. anyways the ability to search for any card is very potent and lets you search for any creature, you will still have to sac your Typhoid Rats for it though which again reflects Ablazes negatice part. Hunter though lets you draw cards without the need to sac the wild nactle. Although you do not know what card you will get, you do not loose the board presence, which is key. I believe that Card draw in green is VERY powerful and although the two jaces can also do it too, those were the reasons WHY jace has always been a star (not memory adept because drawing 1 card for 5 mana is lame). as far as hunter's insight, it does not see any play in competitive magic because it requires combat dmg to be dealt, whereas draw cards for hunter does not need to do dmg, which does make a difference. also losing 2 cards (if you sac a creature card) for 1 card loses card advantage verses drawing cards which gains you card advantage. Furthermore your opponent knows one card in your hand, whereas drawing 2-4 cards are all unknown to your opponent which gives them less information to work with. We can both agree that information for opponents = bad.

The next part is the difficulty to transform garruk and wastes turns, ideally you want to use garruks fight ability on their guy so you don't lose board presence. If you use it on your own wolf or even your own guy, then you essentially wasted a turn of his abilities by resetting what you just did in order to flip him (hope that makes sense ><). You never want to be put into a situation where you wasted a turn. If you do not have any board presence and you do that, Gut shot is also such a major powerhouse in standard (almost in every deck mainboard/sideboard and running 3-4$ on channel fireball) for an uncommon that cost zero, if you are put into the situation of casting garruk, flipping him with 1 loyalty

Lastly card advantage (with spells you can actually play) is the number ONE reason why people win in games 95 percent of the time.

I hope that this explains my point of view and hopefully I have persuaded you, if not then that is completely fine because everyone in this guild is always entitled to their views and I am NEVER right 100% of the time. I do see relentless being played after rotation in standard because mtg is lowering their power creep by a LOT, when scars is out of roation standard will probubly slow to 8-10 turn games

I also DO see relentless seeing SOME play in standard, however hunter see's more play. They are BOTH the same price range with hunter only 3-4$ more, but also take into consideration that M12 has been around a lot longer then innistrad and innistrads cards are still stabilizing in price.