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 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:07 am
I've heard a few arguments against using a foreign language in ritual work, the most prominent being that the person who does so/wants to do so has been watching/reading too much fantasy, too much Harry Potter, etc.
But I've been thinking about it and I can't see how that's a valid argument.
While it may not be necissary to have foreign language in your work, it might just help you get into the ritualistic mood and helps with psychodrama, and hey, if it helps it helps.
There's also the tradition argument (Catholocism and Latin).
So, what are your thoughts and opinions on using foreign or specific language in ritual?
Are you part of/know of a tradition that pushes/requires a foreign/specific language to be spoken by it's followers during ritual work?
I know of none at the moment, at least none I can think of right now (this is excluding Catholicism), and I'd be very interested to know about any that did.
If this needs to be somewhere else Chels, feel free to move it*
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:04 am
Well I'm pretty sure that most Kabbalists are required to speak Hebrew in many of the rituals. The talismans of the Key of Solomon are also written in Hebrew. I've heard some people say that Sanskrit is the ultimate spiritual language/writing... I think a lot of ethnic traditions expect you to be able to practise them in their native tongues. One it's a mark of respect fot that tradition that you went out of your way to learn the language, and two there could be intrinsic power in the wording of certain rituals that would be altered if translated. Not to mention that sounds themselves have power, an "ah" has a different effect from an "ugh" and the words in the ethnic chant/ritual could have been chosen because of their phonetics.
It's not worth it though to speak in another language if you haven't a clue what you're saying.
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:49 pm
My person feeling on the issue is that if you are comfortable with the language and certain the pronunication is right, go for it. I occasionally add words in Latin or French to things I do, for I find they seem easier than english. I use those languages because I have taken both and used to know latin et je parle francais un peu.
DO NOT use a language yoou've never studied and dont know how to pronounce. Gods only know what your saying on accident....
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:05 pm
I don't suppose using a tongue so ancient you don't even know HOW you know it, but you speak it fluently when on the astral/meditating count? sweatdrop
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:57 am
Chels Chels I don't suppose using a tongue so ancient you don't even know HOW you know it, but you speak it fluently when on the astral/meditating count? sweatdrop Is this a language you can write down, record grammar rules and such or is it glossalia with a few words that always remain the same? I'm not terribly familiar with the concept so I can't say I fully understand. Silver Mist DO NOT use a language you've never studied and dont know how to pronounce. Gods only know what your saying on accident.... I think that goes double if that language has a lot of words that are pronounced almost the same. Japanese has a lot, no, a ton of them. The most ammusing example I can think of at the moment is Komon (Adviser) and Koumon (a**s). cool @ Missmagpie: I'd forgotten about Kabalah/Judaism. xp I haven't heard that bit about Sanskrit... I'll have to look into it. While it may be polite to use the language of your tradition's ancestors, it still begs the question if it's enforced in any way or not.
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:57 am
Islam enforces the usage of Arabic in thier mosques because they believe that there is an intrinsic holy power in the language itself, and the way that it is written in the Qu'ran. That's why they object so badly to "translations" of the Qu'ran--they say it loses part of its power. Which is true I suppose since translation can only capture the essence of a message, not truly its every nuance.
Personally, I'm just a linguiphile. I love languages, and if I know it well enough to be confident in my usage, then occaisionally I'll throw it into my rituals. In my case, that would be classical latin.
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:31 pm
Alright, so the religions of YHWH all require other languages in at least some sects.
Any non-YHWH oriented religions which do the same?
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:56 pm
Uh. If I knew what I was saying, yes, I could write it down. It as much a language as latin or anyting like that. It has rules and such - I just don't know how I know it so can't consciously write everything down. If I could convince Sam to help me figure it out, then I'll post the information on it. 3nodding sweatdrop
Won't be posting the info if I ever find any. Sorry.
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:45 pm
Chels Chels Uh. If I knew what I was saying, yes, I could write it down. It as much a language as latin or anyting like that. It has rules and such - I just don't know how I know it so can't consciously write everything down. If I could convince Sam to help me figure it out, then I'll post the information on it. 3nodding sweatdrop I'd be especially intrigued about the spelling/transcribing ninja
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:24 pm
As long as you completely know what you are saying in a foreign language means, it's fine. For some words in foreign languages there is no exact english equivalent translation but the foreign word has the proper "punch".
The most important thing as I said is to know exactly what it means when you use it.
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:30 pm
Chels Chels I don't suppose using a tongue so ancient you don't even know HOW you know it, but you speak it fluently when on the astral/meditating count? sweatdrop LOL! That happened to me once. I was speaking a language I spoke a VERY long time ago and I couldn't even find something today that is remotely like it, but I was so into it in the astral and I was abruptly awoken that when I started to speak I was still thinking in the foreign language and when I opened my mouth trying to clear my mind to answer the person who woke me up I couldn't speak English immediately! It freaked us both out a little! It only took like a minute to wear off but believe me it was a LONG minute!
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:02 pm
No such experiences of speaking foreign languages on the astral for me. However, my familiars are fascinated with my French class and have started speaking in french... sweatdrop I took french in HS and was an exchange student and am taking it again in college. I think it will likely find its way into ritual for now on for me.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:08 am
I know American Sign Language, so I like to have signed rituals. There is something awesome about ritualing in silence and speaking with your hands and movements.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:39 am
That would be very interesting. I bet it would be amazing to do rituals outdoors in silence like that- nothing to disturb the sounds of nature.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:38 pm
There's a ritual made entirely of gestures in Scott Cunnigham's "Guide for a Solitary Practitioner" I can dig it up and put it in the BoS if anyone would like.
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