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 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:26 pm
To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate?
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Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:10 am
Conciousness does not have any bearing on the humanity, or the worth of a person.
To me, it doesn't really have a significant effect. It's like... A person in a coma. I don't think it's right to kill that person just because they've been in a coma for nine months. They deserve to live just as much as the next person.
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Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:09 am
For me, if I was ever in a deep coma, I'd want to be killed. I wouldn't want to live like that. But, as I've already givin my opinion of stuff like this, I'll float off.
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:54 pm
Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up.
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Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:20 pm
FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. but if you really wanted to think about it, it could mean that it doesnt have a soul untill it is actually born. i have seen arguments about a fetus having souls and this could prove that they are just vessels untill they are born. also it dismisses the movie the silent scream, because it is just reacting to stimuli.
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:42 am
suupashiranui but if you really wanted to think about it, it could mean that it doesnt have a soul untill it is actually born. i have seen arguments about a fetus having souls and this could prove that they are just vessels untill they are born. also it dismisses the movie the silent scream, because it is just reacting to stimuli.
And I agree with McPhee, conciousness does not have any bearing on the humanity, or the worth of a person.
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Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:37 pm
FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus.
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 10:08 am
cactuar tamer FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus. If you can't stand a sleeping person leeching off your body resources, why get pregnant in the first place?
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 10:50 am
FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus. If you can't stand a sleeping person leeching off your body resources, why get pregnant in the first place? If you can't stand being paralyzed from the neck down, why the hell did you get into the car in the first place?
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Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 5:23 pm
toxic_lollipop suupashiranui but if you really wanted to think about it, it could mean that it doesnt have a soul untill it is actually born. i have seen arguments about a fetus having souls and this could prove that they are just vessels untill they are born. also it dismisses the movie the silent scream, because it is just reacting to stimuli.
And I agree with McPhee, conciousness does not have any bearing on the humanity, or the worth of a person.i wasnt trying to, i was simply taking a argument that i have heard many times before and placed a theory out on it. and how does it not effect humanity? it seemingly is just a vessle untill it is born (breathing on its own ect)
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:13 am
cactuar tamer FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus. If you can't stand a sleeping person leeching off your body resources, why get pregnant in the first place? If you can't stand being paralyzed from the neck down, why the hell did you get into the car in the first place? I can stand being paralyzed from the neck down if it so happened that way, in fact I would accept it. And I'm completely honest about it, because there is nothing I can do after it. Even so, it isn't harming any form of human life if I sought treatment. So tell me how it's the same thing.
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Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:17 pm
FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus. If you can't stand a sleeping person leeching off your body resources, why get pregnant in the first place? If you can't stand being paralyzed from the neck down, why the hell did you get into the car in the first place? I can stand being paralyzed from the neck down if it so happened that way, in fact I would accept it. And I'm completely honest about it, because there is nothing I can do after it. Even so, it isn't harming any form of human life if I sought treatment. So tell me how it's the same thing. So, you're saying that if you had the chance to become mobile again, you'd turn it down, because it was your fault for getting into that car? Abortion does not harm human life. If a fetus is human then we might as well induct most of the animalia kingdom into humanity. Humanity is not defined by mere biological existence. Things can be alive and not be human. Things can have human DNA and not be human. Things can move and not be human. Things can feel pain and not be human Things can have heartbeats and not be human. Humanity is all of those things, plus something more. Humanity is not A. A must have B. B must have A. A and B must have at one time been present together. A human must have at one time possessed all the qualites of humanity. It's like a birthright citizenship. Once you have it, it can't be revoked, but you have to acquire it first.
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:53 am
cactuar tamer FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus. If you can't stand a sleeping person leeching off your body resources, why get pregnant in the first place? If you can't stand being paralyzed from the neck down, why the hell did you get into the car in the first place? I can stand being paralyzed from the neck down if it so happened that way, in fact I would accept it. And I'm completely honest about it, because there is nothing I can do after it. Even so, it isn't harming any form of human life if I sought treatment. So tell me how it's the same thing. So, you're saying that if you had the chance to become mobile again, you'd turn it down, because it was your fault for getting into that car? Abortion does not harm human life. If a fetus is human then we might as well induct most of the animalia kingdom into humanity. Humanity is not defined by mere biological existence. Things can be alive and not be human. Things can have human DNA and not be human. Things can move and not be human. Things can feel pain and not be human Things can have heartbeats and not be human. Humanity is all of those things, plus something more. Humanity is not A. A must have B. B must have A. A and B must have at one time been present together. A human must have at one time possessed all the qualites of humanity. It's like a birthright citizenship. Once you have it, it can't be revoked, but you have to acquire it first. So if a fetus isn't human, I could very well make a time machine and tell your mother to abort you and it wouldn't be murder... You are saying that humans are defined by more than a biological existence now... contrary to what most people say. Well let's put it this way, if humans are defined by more than a biological existence, then WHAT ARE THEY DEFINED BY?
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:14 pm
FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal cactuar tamer FreeArsenal Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Stating that it a deep sleep like state, and knowing the fetus will wake up. If it is considered "okay" to kill a fetus because it is "sleeping" then I should have every reasonable right to kill a person because he or she is "sleeping." Based off this logic. I mean, it's different than a patient in a coma because you KNOW it will wake up as well as when it will wake up. If the "sleeping" person is leeching off your body's resources and causing irreperable harm, then you have my blessing to off the bugger if you don't want it to continue doing so. Comatose people are INDEPENDANT lifeforms, and have no bearing as an analogy for a fetus. If you can't stand a sleeping person leeching off your body resources, why get pregnant in the first place? If you can't stand being paralyzed from the neck down, why the hell did you get into the car in the first place? I can stand being paralyzed from the neck down if it so happened that way, in fact I would accept it. And I'm completely honest about it, because there is nothing I can do after it. Even so, it isn't harming any form of human life if I sought treatment. So tell me how it's the same thing. So, you're saying that if you had the chance to become mobile again, you'd turn it down, because it was your fault for getting into that car? Abortion does not harm human life. If a fetus is human then we might as well induct most of the animalia kingdom into humanity. Humanity is not defined by mere biological existence. Things can be alive and not be human. Things can have human DNA and not be human. Things can move and not be human. Things can feel pain and not be human Things can have heartbeats and not be human. Humanity is all of those things, plus something more. Humanity is not A. A must have B. B must have A. A and B must have at one time been present together. A human must have at one time possessed all the qualites of humanity. It's like a birthright citizenship. Once you have it, it can't be revoked, but you have to acquire it first. So if a fetus isn't human, I could very well make a time machine and tell your mother to abort you and it wouldn't be murder... You are saying that humans are defined by more than a biological existence now... contrary to what most people say. Well let's put it this way, if humans are defined by more than a biological existence, then WHAT ARE THEY DEFINED BY? (1) Yes. If my birthmother had aborted me, it wouldn't be murder. Plus, I'd like to see you find her as nobody even knows who she is. (2) As yourself, Ask your God. Do I have to spell it out? Humans are defined by Humanity. In terms of biological exitence, we have the same basic functions as scores of other mammals, yet we are more. There is an extra quality or capacity that makes us human. Why don't YOU explain to me how unremarkable biology accounts for our civilizaition, since you seem to think that humanity is based off of mere biological existance.
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:02 pm
Nethilia To spark some new discussion: This article. Basic jist: It's been theorized and possibly determined that fetuses are unconcious until birth, much like a deep sleep with no dreams. Consciousness only comes after the act of birth, when the surge in oxygen almost literally shocks them awake. How do you think a study like this affects the abortion debate? Quite honestly it makes the pro-choice movement look a little worse.
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