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Alexandria

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Ignorance is Bliss

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Daliinn

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:45 pm


[ Message temporarily off-line ]
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:33 pm


I always just believed, "It's always too late to be ignorant," meaning, the only time someone actually doesn't want to know something is when they actually know it.

Conversely, I've always been irritated whenever I knew that there was something I didn't know, whether it be a secret someone was telling everyone but me or information about a subject I was interested in that someone wasn't telling me. Ignorance has never been "bliss" for me becaue even after I was told and didn't, in fact, want to know I was still relieved that I knew it. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to figure it out. sweatdrop

NogginDew

Business Werewolf


Daliinn

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:57 pm


(Just a note to all. Please read the entirity of this post before making any judgements or preparing any flame posts sweatdrop )


NogginDew
I'm not sure if that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to figure it out. sweatdrop


Yes, it makes perfect sense and in most instances I agree with you. It is very easy to get frustrated when you aren't aware or do not understand something. But that is focused more around how the individual responds to ignorance. From a macro perspective, people as a mass thirst off of ignorance. I have been saying for years that the human mind is the most intellectual on the planet, but put it together with hundreds of other minds it becomes the most manipulatable tool. People as a mass can be so oblivious to any kind of truth and still believe they are acting towards a good cause. This might sound a bit confusing and some might not be able to identify, so I will give an example. Though, before I use this example, i just want to make it very clear that I really hate using this particular topic as an example and how reluctant I am to start a debate on such a contreversial tangent. My means of illustrating my point is through the current war in Iraq. The States are currently involved in a war on terrorism. Well lets get a definition of terrorism in here.
Terrorism
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Ok, that definition seems appropriate. Now lets look at a second definition.
The War in Iraq
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Do you see my point? By definition, the States are praciticing terrorism.....while we are fighting a war on the very subject. Do you see how easy it is for ignorance to be manipulated? Some people would not even try to comprehend the idea of the US practicing terrorism. Thats because they have no knowledge of that is actually going on in reality. And I'm not talking about false information or government lies, people as a whole just aren't making the connection here. And those people believe that we are doing a just cause and that the opposers are the terrorists. Through this ignorance people gain faith and security. And by the way guys, I really don't have any opinion on the war in Iraq since I can say that I don't know enough about it to form one. I just know that the US is using military means to invoke an alternate government in Iraq, for better or for worse. So I'm not agreeing with people against of for it, just saying that there is a bit of unrealized knowledge there that the masses can easily avoid. Don't judge yet though, I'm not entirely pessimistic. I would like to also add that this innate ignorance among man is showing some more improvement since there are more and more people forming their own opinions towards worldly events (though some of which are more foolish than others) and actively involving themself in politics. In a previous, more patriotic era this was not so. Take the Hitler regime for instance.

So there you have it, Daliinn's views on ignorance in mankind. Agree or disagree, just have something to back it up razz .
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:19 pm


Daliinn
"After all, how can you be happy if you are unaware of the knowledge that creates joy? For example, if you are ignorant to the weather, how can you excited for the sunny days?"


You may not be excited for sunny days, but if a sunny day comes and you find the heat pleasurable, even if you don't know enough about your own existence to describe it even to yourself, you'll still feel content.

Daliinn
My interpretation is that ignorance breeds hate and violence rather than happiness, which makes sense since when people don't understand something we get frustrated, thus meaning that the only way to relieve this aggravation and achieve happiness is through the pursuit of understanding.


Well, not exactly. To go with the weather argument again:

Most people hate winter and love summer. Now let's say that everybody who hates winter and loves summer didn't know when in the year fall and winter would come. As far as they know, summer would last forever, and since they love summer, they would want it to last forever. Thus they would be happy not only with the current weather, but also with the illusion that the weather will not change.

Ignorance is bliss.

And this is where the "People fear what they don't understand, hate what they fear and destroy what they hate." thing comes in. To not understand, in that context, is to be introduced to something that is beyond one's comfort zone (ie. the familiar), and to be unable to, not necessarily understand in terms of comprehension, but not accept its existence.

Consider X-Men, because the concept of "People fear what they don't understand" was used a lot there. Normal humans understood what mutants were. That wasn't exactly the toughest thing to comprehend. However, mutants were beyond their comfort zone (which creates fear) and normal humans were unable to accept them (which, with fear, creates hate). Hence, the inability to "understand" = fear = hate = destruction.

Now, consider winter and summer again. Quite a lot of people take vacations to warmer regions when winter arrives. Why is that? Because winter is beyond their comfort zone and they are unable to accept its prescence; they want nothing to do with it. Thus they "destroy" their experience of winter by leaving. And once they arrive in the warmer regions, they become content with the heat they love so much.

Ignorance is bliss.

Concerning the nature of the comfort zone, there's also the factor of simply being content in one's life, retaining the knowledge one already has, and not bothering to learn anymore.

For example, to go along with your references to the War on Iraq.

Meet Joe Everyman. He's a programmer for a respectable software company. He's a mild athlete, has a balanced diet, pays his taxes, goes to church, has a small criminal record, has a wife and kids and multiple savings accounts. He lives the same day 7 times a week, week after week. And he is genuinely happy with his life.

Oh, and just for a joke, he also helps an old lady take out her garbage. xp

Why would he want anything else? And ergo, by extension, why should he care about anything else?

So a war in Iraq happens. The man in the electronic box that tells him what to do tells him that people in Iraq are terrorist savages and deserve every bomb dropped on them, and that Bush is a good man, and that like every other war America has been involved in, America is fighting the good fight.

However, Joe isn't even listening, because he doesn't give a damn. That war has nothing to do with his life, after all.

It is true that minds in groups tend to be much less productive than when solitary. However, one also has to take into account the "Joe Everyman" factor, and other factors, as well. That's why we have teams of scientists and doctors attempting to figure out the physical mysteries of the world, because a group of minds that is committed to the discovery of knowledge is far more powerful and possesses far more potential than a single committed mind. Therefore...

Daliinn
If it is possible to know absolutely nothing, it is possible to live without worry or doubt.


Not necessarily nothing at all. Simply to know nothing more is enough to live a life free of worry or doubt.

Ignorance is bliss.

Daliinn
Thats right, Buddha believed that dogmatic assertions can lead only to dissention and not to truth. One of the largest principals of Buddhism is to relieve oneself of worldly desire and troubles.


That =/= living a life of ignorance. If you know nothing, regardless of how blissful you might feel, you won't find knowledge, which stops you from reaching Nirvana/Enlightenment, which defeats the purpose of letting go of all knowledge. What they really want you to do is to remove yourself from:

-Concern. You must accept everything that comes your way in your life.
-Desire. You must leave behind the world of the flesh mentally and spiritually before you leave physically.
-Dogmatic righteousness. It's true, dogmatic assertion leads only to dissention and not to truth, because differing dogmas will clash. Keep your beliefs, but accept the beliefs of others.

If you do those things and stick to 'em, you will be able to discover true enlightenment and ultimate knowledge and truth, which would place you far beyond ignorance.

Daliinn
I truly believe that the ignorant man is the happier.


It depends on the person. Intellectuals tend to be less happy because we have more, greater concerns; that's all. There are many factors in life that can make somebody happy or sad, including how one takes and deals with one's concerns and problems.

Psydon


Michael Noire
Captain

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:26 am


There are two aspects


1. people believe others to be ignorant when it is themselves who have ignorance of the truth

this happens most often when we come upon people who appear less civilized, and their ways seem simplistic. In the art of war, there is a single blow that when struck, will instantly kill a man. It isn't flashy, it isn't preceded by a Naruto chant or a Shaolin Kata, it is swift, and to the point. Yet it accomplishes the objective with the greatest simplicity.

There are farmers and rachers, and hunters and soldiers, weavers and painters, all who have a deeper understanding of the nature of reality than the logical, empirical, erudite drama of sophistication. If the measure of ignorance is one who does not speak Greek, then the world is full of blissful souls. Nevertheless, not having an orchestrated education does not a fool make.


From wisdom, comes great sorrow, but happiness is not possible without it. It is from pride, and vanity, that Wisdom is corrupted, and it is from the nature of reality, the attachments of humanity, that a wise man can be made to weep.


2. people confuse bliss with happiness. Bliss is a state of not worrying about troubles. It does not mean there is a coherant joy, r expression of accomplishment, only a dimly recognized sense of relief, or absense of obligation.

In the sense that attachments equate to sins (such as addiction to crack or the attachment to material wealth) bliss would be seen as closer to happiness in that a person's worries and fears, as well as obligations to those ideas fades away.

This freedom itself is not the completion of happiness, however.

A man who is chain on Monday at a Post and unchained on Tuesday by a post is still standing by a post. They have still gone no where.


Freedom from bondage, physical, as well as mental, is only the prerequisite to the first step. Happiness comes from progression, from a sense of accomplishment, from doing, and reflecting. From realizing, not merely knowing.

A man may know things, and have done things in the past, these feelings are the root of pride. I know the language of the Pygmies, I have conquered a Nation. These actions are merely memories, and reflecting on them can boast pride, only if we identify our sense of worth through these deeds.

When a human being becomes a collection of actions, they not only become more prideful, but more hollow, and more stale. As time moves forward, the relevance of actions becomes less and less.

What is the value of defeating a Tyrant 20 years ago who has now become a Saint? The fact of the matter is, statues crumble, bridges collapse, forests decay, enemies perish, villains are forgotten, and even the finest meal is just another memory waiting to happen.

Our deeds, and our memories, should be looked upon as a tool box, or treasure chest. You are not a screw driver, you are not the gold necklace around your neck. Memories, serving a similar purpose for the mind, should not be any different.

People are choice.
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Alexandria

 
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