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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:19 pm
here is another pro-life issue and I would like to hear what people have to say about it
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:26 pm
come on guys don't leave me hanging I really want to know what you think about this issue
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:35 pm
It's depressing to say the least. Her husband is just strange... she isn't braindead, she's moving around for Godsakes...
Me and my mom sent emails to the Senators, that's all we can do, that and pray.
And of all the Euthanasia methods.. STARVATION? Wow I thought America had some decently smart people in it... guess not.
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:53 am
Never heard of it... sweatdrop And I call myself a Pro-Lifer...hmm...someone PM me and inform me?
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:13 pm
http://cluster.gaiaonline.com/forum/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=54746there's one from awhile ago, lymelady This doesn't have to do with abortion, but it does have to do with Pro-life and I was interested in what people thought about it. I mean...pro-life isn't all about abortion, and if it is, well, you can just lock this or delete it or whatever. but I was wondering what people thought about it. http://www.apfn.org/apfn/Terri_story.htmhttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35270Quote: Sunday, Oct. 19, 2003 1:17 a.m. EDT Terri Schiavo Denied Last Communion Three days after a Florida court ordered that Terri Schiavo's feeding tube be removed so she would starve to death, her priest was barred from administering the sacrament of Communion one last time before she dies. During a visit on Saturday to the hospice where she currently resides, Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, were joined by Monsignor Thaddeus Malinowski, who came to administer the Catholic rite of Viaticum, the last communion for a Catholic before death, the Associated Press said. Police officers guarding the entrance to the hospice told the Schindlers that ingestion of the Communion wafer would violate a doctor's order that nothing be placed in Terri's mouth. Though the priest promised to use only a small piece of the wafer, moistened with water to prevent choking, an attorney for Terri's husband, Michael, barred the procedure, allowing Malinowski to administer only a "spiritual Communion." http://www.sweetliberty.org/bulletins/euda.htmhttp://www.illinoisrighttolife.org/TerriSchiavo.htm I'll add more later. I think it's outrageous. But hey, I guess if a guy wants to get a few million dollars to put his wife through therapy, then take her out and sue and get more money, then not per her back in treatment and use some of that money for legal fees to pay to get her taken off her feeding tube so he'll inherit her money and be able to marry his girlfriend and give his daughter a last name (that's right, a daughter with his girlfriend while his wife's life is on the line) it's America and he has the right to decide who lives and who dies.
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:21 pm
kp606 It's depressing to say the least. Her husband is just strange... she isn't braindead, she's moving around for Godsakes... Me and my mom sent emails to the Senators, that's all we can do, that and pray. And of all the Euthanasia methods.. STARVATION? Wow I thought America had some decently smart people in it... guess not. the fact that it was stopped a few times proves that there are.
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:54 pm
1) Quote: Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment. In other words, Terri is mentally disabled, not in a vegetative state.
2) Terri is not even being granted a dignified death. Terri has ultimately been sentenced to death by starvation and dehydration. Not by the farthest stretch of the imagination is this peaceful or humane - the effects are horrific.
3) Terri's own parents, who have worked out of love for their daughter to protect her for years, have no power to keep her alive. Every day, they have to live with the fact that their daughter - who has commited no crime other than being mentally disabled - is slowly dying of starvation.
I don't disagree with "mercy killing" in every case - but this killing is anything but merciful.
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:54 pm
This is a horrible case. People are calling her 'comatose', 'brain-dead' and 'vegatable'. She isn't any of those things, she can move and smile, and speak words even if not sentences. It's horrible that a cheating husband can get away with starving his mentally-disabled wife and not even be punished. Hopefully the government will intervene and do so.
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:25 pm
The husband is obviously trying to cover something up.
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:34 am
I know I"m being silly but I can't stop crying, the tube's out again and they won't put it back in. How do you let a guy kill his wife? How do you turn the right to die into the right to MURDER? HOW? HOW DO YOU FREAKING LOOK AT A GUY WHO'S GOT TWO KIDS WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND WHILE HIS WIFE IS DYING DUE TO HIM USING HER REHABILITATION MONEY TO INSTEAD PAY LAWYERS TO LET THEM PUT IT THROUGH? HOW? What the hell kinda morals do you have when you let someone do something like that? I thought this country stood for more than greed, politics, and the easy way out, well I guess I'm wrong and if that's how this society is, I'm not so sure I'm proud to be an American, if that's what it is now, we deserve whatever the hell we've got coming. How can they do that? I'm putting it in writing here, if I"m ever disabled, I WANT TO FREAKING LIVE and anyone who tries to have my life support cut off in a painful, slow deadly process for me is gonna have NO CHANCE IN HELL of enjoying the afterlife, I'll make sure of that.
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:33 pm
You guys are a little confused about some things.
Yes, her brain is completely destroyed. There's nothing on this earth than can fix it. No amount of therapy or surgery can fix it. Rehab won't work. Nothing will work. She's going to be like this until she dies.
Death by starvation isn't inhuman, considering she cannot feel any pain whatsoever.
She's been like this for 15 years. It's not unreasonable nor immoral for her husband to move on (especially since there's a 0% chance of recovery).
All responses (smiling, blinking) are random uncognitive results of nerves firing. She sometimes smiles when she's being giving an injection. Sometimes she doesn't smiles when people visit her. It's all impulse. No thought there at all. Every medical expert I've seen discuss the matter agrees.
I think they should unplug her, but let her family take her home and feed her manually, if they so choose. Right now she's just a drain on money (about $80,000 a month).
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:46 pm
Nolandon Death by starvation isn't inhuman, considering she cannot feel any pain whatsoever. That's a lie. A doctor not affiliated with the case read the report on Terri Schiavo, and he said that there is only a small chance that she will not feel any pain. Secondly, you seem awfully cruel. Should mentally disabled people under the care of another die because they are a drain on money? Plus, why does the husband feel the need to just kill her and be done with it? Why should he have rights to Ms. Schiavo when he's practically divorced her (without all the papers and whatnot)? I think he feels some guilt for Terri's condition, and because of that he doesn't want to be reminded, and thus killing her, in his mind, is the perfect solution. Right now I'm questioning his motives. It's obvious that the parents have hope, and if they're pushing to get her feeding tube reinserted, then there must be a chance for her to recover. Keep in mind that her husband has allowed no sort of therapy whatsoever. As for Terri's reactions, they are not random firings of the brain. She has been making efforts to communicate. She will follow light with her eyes. Ms. Schiavo is not a vegetable. Her current state, in my opinion, is mentally disabled.
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:27 pm
Nolandon Yes, her brain is completely destroyed. There's nothing on this earth than can fix it. No amount of therapy or surgery can fix it. Rehab won't work. Nothing will work. She's going to be like this until she dies. There is a decent possibility that she will never improve beyond her current state, but it is not a lost cause. She hasn't had therapy in a decade, something her family would at least like to try once again. Her brain is not "completely destroyed," - in fact, not all doctors agree that she is in a persistant vegetative state. Terri responds to some outside stimuli, and shows signs of awareness - she is not, as Mr. Shiavo put it, "a houseplant."Nolandon Death by starvation isn't inhuman, considering she cannot feel any pain whatsoever. Actually, her's will be a death of dehydration with a helping of starvation on the side. Also, in prior tests she has physically distanced herself from painful stimuli. I think that this particular form of death is more cruel to those who love her than to herself - each time her mother picks up a glass of water, she has to know that her daughter hasn't had a drop in four days. Each time her brother has a meal, he has to know that his sister won't ever have another bite again. It seems like mental torture to me. In addition, killing her isn't any more humane than keeping her alive - she's in no pain in her current state.Nolandon She's been like this for 15 years. It's not unreasonable nor immoral for her husband to move on (especially since there's a 0% chance of recovery). The thing is, he's claiming to not have moved on. He's still married to Terri and has not gotten a divorce from her - which he could. If he divorced Terri, he would no longer be her guardian and would therefore not be entitled to choosing her death or receiving her small fortune if she dies. He has been with another woman for the past ten years, fathering two of her children. Suspicious? I'd think so.Nolandon All responses (smiling, blinking) are random uncognitive results of nerves firing. She sometimes smiles when she's being giving an injection. Sometimes she doesn't smiles when people visit her. It's all impulse. No thought there at all. Every medical expert I've seen discuss the matter agrees. She smiles, she laughs, she cries, she follows others with her eyes .. among other things. Here's an article of interest, as well:Quote: Dr. William Hammesfahr is an internationally recognized expert on cases of brain-injured patients. He has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work. Terri Schiavo's injury, hypoxic encephalopathy, is a type of stroke that he treats every day with success. "We, and others I know, have treated many patients worse than Terri and have seen them regain independence and dignity," Hammesfahr said. "There are many approaches that would help Terri Schiavo," Dr. Hammesfahr explained. "I know, because I had the opportunity to personally examine her, her medical records, and her X-rays." "It is time to help Terri, instead of just warehousing her," he added. "She would have benefited from treatment years ago, but it is not too late to start now." This isn't the first time Hammesfahr has discussed Terri's plight. Last year, he explained that, after examining Terri, he believed that she could eventually eat and drink on her own. He also said he believes Terri would be able to talk and have good use of one arm and one hand should be given proper rehabilitative treatment. Hammesfahr also said he thought Terri would eventually be able to transfer herself from a wheelchair to a bed. "The patient is not in a coma," concluded Hammesfahr said after observing Terri. "She responds to specific people best. She tries to please others by doing activities for which she gets verbal praise." He says Terri's eyes clearly fixate on her family and she tries to follow the simple commands her parents give her. "She looks at you, she can follow commands," Hammesfahr said. Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999. Nolandon I think they should unplug her, but let her family take her home and feed her manually, if they so choose. Right now she's just a drain on money (about $80,000 a month). A quick note that the money that is being "drained" is her own.
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:41 pm
Hammesfahr spent ten hours with Terri. Ten hours. Personally, I trust 15 years of medical analysis over the opinion of a guy who spent an afternoon with her.
Everyone seems to like to make out her husband as "evil." Apparently a lot of people think he put her in her condition, or he's trying to collect money via her death. First of all, he's promised to donate her insurance to charity. Secondly, he was offered 1 million dollars to keep Terri alive. He declined (so much for the money motive).
How can he get a divorce? Divorces have to be consensual from both parties.
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:43 pm
Nolandon Hammesfahr spent ten hours with Terri. Ten hours. Personally, I trust 15 years of medical analysis over the opinion of a guy who spent an afternoon with her. Everyone seems to like to make out her husband as "evil." Apparently a lot of people think he put her in her condition, or he's trying to collect money via her death. First of all, he's promised to donate her insurance to charity. Secondly, he was offered 1 million dollars to keep Terri alive. He declined (so much for the money motive). How can he get a divorce? Divorces have to be consensual from both parties. First off...he's got 5 million left if she dies. That's more than one million.(EDIT: No, no, 50 thousand, I dunno why I thought 5 million. That one is my mistake and I apologize.) secondly, the first few years she was getting better. GO read those doctors' reports. Thirdly, I wouldn't call a guy who pulls his wife out of rehab, takes a girlfriend, has a kid or two with her, and tries to have his wife killed a saint. Maybe that's just me, but um....last I checked that was evil. Fourthly, So....she's not allowed to decide whether or not her feeding tubes are removed, thus ending her life, yet she's supposed to consent to divorce? I know which one I'd rather have a choice of....
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