Lex Joseph Luthor
It just seems necessary.
By the way. Quote this post, and you get blocked. Fair warning. Troll, and you will get blocked. Reference DBAF and you get blocked. Think you got blocked unfairly? Pass a message on to Danny Ketch, and I MAY (no promises, especially if you were a hardcaore a*****e) reconsider, if you make a really good case . . . but remember your grammar and your manners . . . and don't hold your breath.
Frequnetly Posted Stupidity.
Let's just save both our time, huh?
1. Q. "Well, Goku can blow up planets, go SSJ5, and kill people with a thought, and absorbed the Dragonballs and . . ."
A. No, he can't. He's never done so before, and if he's never done so, it is assumed that he can't. That is called using canon information. If you have proof, show it to us.
2. Q. "Why would they fight? They're both heroes!"
A. Heroes fight each other all the time for a variety of reasons. Hell, Goku has fought with every one of his friends at some point in his life, with the POSSIBLE exception of Dende.
3. Q. "Why did you post this?"
A. Because it seemed like a good idea at the time. Using logic to counter fantardation is a hobby of mine. The fact that it was Kyle's logic makes it no less logical.
4. Q. "Well, I still think Goku would win!"
A. When you can prove it with canon facts, maybe we'll listen.
5. Q. "But Gotenks opened a rip in dimensions by screaming! And Gohan pulled the sword from the stone! And . . . and Vegeta destroys planets!"
A: And? None of them are Goku. By the same coin, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Silver Surfer aren't Superman.
6. Q. "Who cares? Let it die!"
A. We care. We, who are tired of people who will blindly scream how Goku, who is a snail in both speed AND strength compared to Superman, is "strong, faster, etc." And there are plenty of other threads for you to troll in. If you don't like this one'h come here. Piss off.
7. Q. "Kryptonite!"
A: Goku? The guy who always fights fair? He wouldn't use it.
8. Q. "Goku gets stronger with every fight! He can't lose!"
A. The number of fights it'd take for him to reach Superman's level? He'd die of old age before he got there.
9. Q. "They're not real!"
A. Neither is Inuyasha, Naruto, Spike Speigle or . . . well, most of what you discuss in AMC.
10. Q. "Goku could get the dragoinballs and wish him dead!"
A. No. he can't. First and foremost, like with the kryptonite argument, it's something he wouldn't do in the first damned place, because he'd want as close to a fair fight as he could get. Secondly . . . that's too powerful a wish for the balls to grant. They couldn't kill Vegeta and Nappa at the beginning of the Saiyan Saga. it damn sure wouldn't work against Superman. Finally, with the speed Superman has, he wouldn't LET Goku gather said balls.
11. Q. "Superman fanboys!"
A. Actually many of this thread's regulars are fans of Superman AND DBZ. I, personally, like DBZ more than Superman.
12. Q. "Kamhehame ha! Superman can only punch!"
A. Umm . . . heat vision that reignited a sun?
13. "You can't close a black hole!"
A. Prove it. Besides, real world science doesn't apply to comic books.
14. "OMG! SSJ5!"
There is no SSJ5. There is no DBAF. It's a fan fiction. Reference it at your peril.
By the way. Quote this post, and you get blocked. Fair warning. Troll, and you will get blocked. Reference DBAF and you get blocked. Think you got blocked unfairly? Pass a message on to Danny Ketch, and I MAY (no promises, especially if you were a hardcaore a*****e) reconsider, if you make a really good case . . . but remember your grammar and your manners . . . and don't hold your breath.
Kyle Rayner]Goku cant beat Superman, and Im sick of hearing people who know nothing about Superman say he can.
People always call in fusion, or SSJ4 Goku at his strongest, so why not use Superman at his strongest? Superman Prime has been living in the SUN for 15,000 years, and he has the Green Lantern ring, the Universe's Most Powerful weapon. By that time, Supes is no longer hurt by Kryptonite, he has absorbed so much solar energy that he cannot be hurt by anything other than a psychic attack (psychic attacks only give him headaches), and the Green Lantern ring is limited only by willpower in what it can do.
Or how about Pre-Crisis Superman? Who is this? The early version of Superman, who had his powers cut back during the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Heres some samples of his powers:
Goku can blow up a planet? Superman once juggled planets.
Goku has instant transmission? The Flash can run over 8 times the speed of light, and Superman barely lost to him in a footrace. That means that Superman can move at around 7.7 times the speed of light. Goku's instant transmission is only 99% speed of light.
Superman once nearly outflew the barrier of creation.
He is so fast, and his senses are so sharp, that while talking to Lois Lane, he heard aliens in another galaxy needing help, went there, helped them, and came back, and Lois didnt even notice he had left.
His voice alone can shatter mountains.
His heat vision can repel Darkseid's Omega Effect, which can destroy planets.
Should I go on? Yep.
Superman closed a black hole with his bare hands.
He once used his superbreath to extinguish a star about to go nova.
He sneezed in outer space, and his super breath obliterated an uninhabited solar-system. The whole thing.
In February 1954, Superman withstands the explosion of a hydrogen bomb, (Superman #87)
In June 1958, while relaxing at his Fortress of Solitude, Superman defeats a great robot he has built in a game of super-chess, despite the fact that the robot - which possesses a super-electronic brain - can think and play with the speed of lightning and plans a million moves at once.
By 1957, Superman is able to hurl an uninhabited Planet through space (Superman #110) Both Pre-Crisis Superman and Superboy have been known to move planets without external assistance. For reference, consider the earth an average sized planet. The earth weighs in at 5.972 sextillion (5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000) metric tons.
Ive got more if you want it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FANBOYS, TAKE NOTE:
We've already talked about the following many times:
This thread is comparing the second strongest version of Superman to the second strongest version of Goku. WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING ANIMATED SUPERMAN, WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING PRIME, AND WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING GOKU AFTER HE ABSORBS THE DRAGONBALLS. Superman Prime is just too strong to even think about fighting anybody hand to hand. So we'll use Pre-Crisis Superman. Goku, after absorbing the Dragonballs, is never seen fighting again, so we arent using him either. We dont know what he can do. The fight is Pre-Crisis Superman vs SSJ4 Goku.
We arent talking about WHY they are fighting. We dont care why. Even though we know that comic heroes have fought each other many times, and we know that Goku has fought his friends and family many times, we just dont care. This is about what would happen IF they fought.
Superman is impervious to ki attacks. There are ki users in the DCU, and they do not affect Superman.
Goku trying to use Kryptonite on Superman. Goku wont. Just for comparison, he gave Cell a senzu bean before sending his own son in against Cell. He wont figure out Superman's weakness anyway. Of note: Green K is not an instant kill on the Man of Steel. Superman was recently injected with liquid K (I know, I know, Kryptonite is a mineral, I dont write this stuff) and was still able to use his powers.
Goku blowing up the sun. Goku wont, he's too good to intentionally kill everyone on Earth, just to win a fight. He would rather sacrifice himself than risk destroying the earth. Plus, Superman has enough solar energy stored up, and can exist in space long enough, that the destruction of the sun would be more of a problem for Goku than Superman.
Goku trying to gather the Dragonballs. He doesnt have time, because Superman is so much faster, Goku doesnt have time to gather all the balls, and doesnt have time to make a wish. Also, everybody knows how much he loves a fight, and how its often his downfall.
Goku using the Genki Dama. No. Goku doesnt have time to summon one up because of Superman's speed. Besides, the Spirit Bomb doesnt work on those pure of heart.
Superman doesnt know martial arts. Wrong. Superman knows many forms of martial arts, and how to neutralize them, and he has thousands of years of combat experience.
Goku wins because he is cooler. Wrong. Nobody cares who you think is "cool." Thats both subjective and irrelevant to this fight, as a good friend of mine pointed out. Also, Superman has been around longer, is more recognizable, and is even more popular in Japan than Goku. [/quote]
Furthermore!
[quote="Kayle also
People always call in fusion, or SSJ4 Goku at his strongest, so why not use Superman at his strongest? Superman Prime has been living in the SUN for 15,000 years, and he has the Green Lantern ring, the Universe's Most Powerful weapon. By that time, Supes is no longer hurt by Kryptonite, he has absorbed so much solar energy that he cannot be hurt by anything other than a psychic attack (psychic attacks only give him headaches), and the Green Lantern ring is limited only by willpower in what it can do.
Or how about Pre-Crisis Superman? Who is this? The early version of Superman, who had his powers cut back during the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Heres some samples of his powers:
Goku can blow up a planet? Superman once juggled planets.
Goku has instant transmission? The Flash can run over 8 times the speed of light, and Superman barely lost to him in a footrace. That means that Superman can move at around 7.7 times the speed of light. Goku's instant transmission is only 99% speed of light.
Superman once nearly outflew the barrier of creation.
He is so fast, and his senses are so sharp, that while talking to Lois Lane, he heard aliens in another galaxy needing help, went there, helped them, and came back, and Lois didnt even notice he had left.
His voice alone can shatter mountains.
His heat vision can repel Darkseid's Omega Effect, which can destroy planets.
Should I go on? Yep.
Superman closed a black hole with his bare hands.
He once used his superbreath to extinguish a star about to go nova.
He sneezed in outer space, and his super breath obliterated an uninhabited solar-system. The whole thing.
In February 1954, Superman withstands the explosion of a hydrogen bomb, (Superman #87)
In June 1958, while relaxing at his Fortress of Solitude, Superman defeats a great robot he has built in a game of super-chess, despite the fact that the robot - which possesses a super-electronic brain - can think and play with the speed of lightning and plans a million moves at once.
By 1957, Superman is able to hurl an uninhabited Planet through space (Superman #110) Both Pre-Crisis Superman and Superboy have been known to move planets without external assistance. For reference, consider the earth an average sized planet. The earth weighs in at 5.972 sextillion (5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000) metric tons.
Ive got more if you want it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FANBOYS, TAKE NOTE:
We've already talked about the following many times:
This thread is comparing the second strongest version of Superman to the second strongest version of Goku. WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING ANIMATED SUPERMAN, WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING PRIME, AND WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING GOKU AFTER HE ABSORBS THE DRAGONBALLS. Superman Prime is just too strong to even think about fighting anybody hand to hand. So we'll use Pre-Crisis Superman. Goku, after absorbing the Dragonballs, is never seen fighting again, so we arent using him either. We dont know what he can do. The fight is Pre-Crisis Superman vs SSJ4 Goku.
We arent talking about WHY they are fighting. We dont care why. Even though we know that comic heroes have fought each other many times, and we know that Goku has fought his friends and family many times, we just dont care. This is about what would happen IF they fought.
Superman is impervious to ki attacks. There are ki users in the DCU, and they do not affect Superman.
Goku trying to use Kryptonite on Superman. Goku wont. Just for comparison, he gave Cell a senzu bean before sending his own son in against Cell. He wont figure out Superman's weakness anyway. Of note: Green K is not an instant kill on the Man of Steel. Superman was recently injected with liquid K (I know, I know, Kryptonite is a mineral, I dont write this stuff) and was still able to use his powers.
Goku blowing up the sun. Goku wont, he's too good to intentionally kill everyone on Earth, just to win a fight. He would rather sacrifice himself than risk destroying the earth. Plus, Superman has enough solar energy stored up, and can exist in space long enough, that the destruction of the sun would be more of a problem for Goku than Superman.
Goku trying to gather the Dragonballs. He doesnt have time, because Superman is so much faster, Goku doesnt have time to gather all the balls, and doesnt have time to make a wish. Also, everybody knows how much he loves a fight, and how its often his downfall.
Goku using the Genki Dama. No. Goku doesnt have time to summon one up because of Superman's speed. Besides, the Spirit Bomb doesnt work on those pure of heart.
Superman doesnt know martial arts. Wrong. Superman knows many forms of martial arts, and how to neutralize them, and he has thousands of years of combat experience.
Goku wins because he is cooler. Wrong. Nobody cares who you think is "cool." Thats both subjective and irrelevant to this fight, as a good friend of mine pointed out. Also, Superman has been around longer, is more recognizable, and is even more popular in Japan than Goku. [/quote]
Furthermore!
[quote="Kayle also
Not only can SSJ4 Goku not take the strongest incarnation of Superman (Prime), or the second strongest (Pre-Crisis), now I say that he cant take the THIRD strongest, our modern Post-Crisis Superman. Ive already talked about how our Superman has flown through the sun twice, can lift 43 billion tons, survived being injected with liquid K, and stopped the Omega Effect with his heat vision. Well, take this on for size.
Goku CANNOT beat Post-Crisis Superman:
In Superman Man of Steel #66, he once again acted as an effective shield, protecting cities around the world by blocking numerous "atom-smashing" force beams with his body. At one point he had 6 such beams trained on him simultaneously.
In Adventures of Superman #581, Superman allowed Adversary, a powerful magical foe, to hit him as hard as he could, without retaliation. Superman was literally punched halfway across the planet- from Metropolis, he literally landed in China- without any injury or loss of consciousness
But forget about being punched across the planet to China, how about through the planet to China? In Superman #181, Superman and Bizarro (his magically-created, brain damaged, "imperfect" duplicate) switched bodies. Superman (in Bizarro's body) punched Bizarro (in Superman's body) completely through the Earth and out the other end. Bizarro (in Superman's body) was slammed in through the ground in Metropolis and came out two panels later in China. He was shown ripping straight through the Earth?s crust, mantle, and core, and coming out on the other side of the planet. Superman's body was fully conscious and completely unharmed by the blow (Bizarro was smiling as usual).
In Man of Tomorrow #13, Superman harmlessly shrugged off a blast from Orion's Astro-Harness that blasted him across the planet from the North Pole to India.
Action Comics # 762: Superman harmlessly shrugged off a blow from the magical demon Etrigan. The blow actually knocked Superman from Earth's surface all the way to the moon (239,000 miles), a distance that is about 10 times the diameter of the Earth. Superman was virtually unfazed. In this issue he also shrugged off magical demon-fire (which he did previously in Action #589), and his super-lungs harmlessly inhaled the demon's magical gases.
In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman survived, at ground zero, a blast equal to "a million nuclear bombs" (according to the energy being Waverider). The explosion was caused by the destruction of the power generator for the entire planet of Calaton; the energy was drawn from the planetary core. Superman did not suffer any physical damage, but was momentarily rendered inert, and stated that he felt concussed. He then got up and boxed a little more with Doomsday, who also survived the blast.
In Adventures of Superman #478, as part of the Time and Time Again storyline, Superman survived- without so much as batting an eye- the nuclear destruction of the entire moon in the year 2995. The moon had been lined with sufficient nuclear devices to disintegrate it in one shot. When the moon was obliterated, Superman was actually within the moon (structures had been built beneath the surface of the moon). He did not suffer any harm and did not lose consciousness.
Superman's ability to survive immersion in the sun is well documented by now. In Adventures of Superman #480, Superman survived immersion in the sun for the first time, but with great difficulty. This was actually a RED sun at the time, due to the Eradicator's interference. In both the Superman: Last God of Krypton one shot and Superman Man of Steel #50, Superman survived immersion in the outer layers of the Earth's yellow sun enjoyably, received extra power from the sun, and effortlessly escaped the sun?s gravitational pull. Furthermore, in both Action Comics # 782 and Superman Man of Steel #64, Superman survived the core of the sun without any problems. The pressure at the core of the sun is equal to 250 billion Earth atmospheres.
In JLA #41, Superman absorbed the energy of the Mageddon Warhead, a device capable, at the minimum, of vaporizing half a galaxy. Writer Grant Morrison intended Mageddon to be "the primordial annihilator" capable of literally destroying everything. Visibly distressed by the absorption, Superman still suffered no harm whatsoever, and even smiled afterwards.
Man of Steel #30: Standing on Earth's surface, Superman punched Lobo into orbit and beyond with one uppercut.
Adventure of Superman #473: From Earth, Superman threw an alien space craft clear of Earth?s gravity and into outer space. This craft was larger than an aircraft carrier and over a mile long (a typical aircraft carrier is about a 1/4 of a mile long and weighs about 100,000 tons, so this ship was about 4x that size)
Several events show Superman as a moon-mover. In JLA # 7, as Electro-Superman, he halted the fall of the Moon towards Earth (caused by Neron's magical machinations), then moved the Moon back its proper position in orbit. He later commented that he's more powerful as "regular" Superman. Writer Grant Morrison and artist Howard Porter had originally intended the moon-moving event in JLA #7 be done by "regular" Superman , but DC forced them to use Electro-Supes. This event is butressed by several more. In JLA: The Century War, ancient "alchemical engines" were causing the moon to fall towards the Earth. Superman and Green Lantern took turns holding the moon back against the "geometrically increasing force" that was causing it to fall. Superman got the last "moon-bracing" shift. In Superman Man of Steel #30, Superman grabbed, easily broke the forward movement of, and easily threw in the opposite direction, a space ship the size of a small moon. In JLA # 58, Superman , Wonder Woman and Green Lantern collaborated to tow Earth's moon a distance of 238,900 miles in mere seconds, indicating a fantastic acceleration, and then pulled the moon out of Earth's gravity (which increases its weight tremendously). As he is universally regarded as the JLA's most powerful member, I'm inclined to give Superman more than one-third, and - conservatively - about one-half, the work effort. In the Lex 2000 special, with a single strike, Superman split one of Saturn's moons in half. Saturn's moons are small moons.
Action Comics #782: After emerging from the sun energized, Superman physically pushed WarWorld, (a small, Pluto-sized planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. WarWorld did engage a "full throttle countermeasure" in resistance Superman?s push. We can see WarWorld's engines (which encompass nearly an entire hemisphere of WarWorld's surface) firing in resistance, to no avail. WarWorld's engines allow WarWorld to travel at faster than light speeds through space, so they generate the power to accelerate a planet beyond light speed. "How is he moving my planet! The Kryptonian does not have that power!" Braniac's disbelief is reasonable since WarWorld's engines had no shortage of power ; WarWorld had just pirated the energy of Imperiex - energy gleaned from the devouring of many galaxies. (Hence Imperiex's reputation as the "Devourer of Galaxies.") Please note that Superman was energized beyond his usual power levels at this time.
Action Comics Annual #7: Fighting in space, Superman successfully resisted the pull from a black hole that had opened up directly below (inches from) his feet. The miniature black hole had been induced by advanced alien (Ht'ros) war technology.
Superman #13: Flew around the equator in a matter of seconds, indicating a speed of well over 1,000,000 mph, or roughly 1350 times the speed of sound.
Man of Steel #110: Standing in one spot, Superman used his super speed to vibrate his body invisible.
Superman #175: Taking another speed trick from the Flash?s book of tricks, Superman used his super speed to vibrate his body intangible, thus allowing Doomsday's punches and fire-breath to pass harmlessly through him. A body moving at light speed within an atmosphere will become intangible (that's how the Flash does it).
Return of Superman: Superman used his speed to vibrate his arm so fast, it shattered the Cyborg?s body into hundreds of fragments.
After racing the Man of Steel, Impulse stated that Superman travels at 99% of the speed of light.
War of the Gods #4: Superman actually out-raced an energy beam to its target. In JLA: Heavens Ladder, it is stated that Superman can race a photon to its target.
Lex 2000 special: Superman made the trip from Earth to Saturn in well under 4 minutes. By comparison, light takes about 19 minutes to make this trip. He was pissed at the time.
Superman #167: His power waning under a red sun, Superman still summoned enough heat vision to successfully power Jor-El's planet-moving ion engines. The planet in this case had a mass 16 times that of Earth's.
Superman's heat vision has a maximum range of at least 239,000 miles (the distance from the Earth to the Moon). In Superman #101, he let out a beam from Earth's surface that scorched the surface of the moon; In Man of Steel #112, he shot a beam that bounced off the surface of the moon. Krypto did, too.
In John Byrne's Man of Steel revamp, it was shown that Superman's microscopic vision can see on the subcellular level, as he analyzed Bizarro?s cellular structure; and even on the molecular level, as he analyzed the molecular composition of Magpie's acid-gas.
In the JLA: Earth 2 graphic novel, the Martian Manhunter and Superman mulled over the abnormalities at "every eighth angstrom" in the DNA of the anti-matter Earth's version of Lex Luthor. An angstrom is about the size of a large atom.
Superman #152: Superman's telescopic vision allowed him to peer across the galaxy to WarWorld.
In Man of Steel #121, Superman's super-hearing allowed him to pinpoint a single person in a city of 11 million based on such distinctive sounds as the rustle of that person's clothing and the sound of their heartbeat.
Soul Search: Fighting alone in Hell (literally), Superman single-handedly defeated Blaze, a death goddess, in her own realm. This had never been accomplished before by anyone; Blaze has magical control over the very reality of her realm. The attacks that Superman fought off included magical transmutation into a demon, which he shook off through sheer willpower ; magical energy blasts from Blaze ; a magical spell that encased him in stone, which he subsequently shattered; and immersion in the lava lakes of this magical dimension.
Alone against the Daxamite Lar Gand, (Daxamites are the genetic cousins to, but reputed to be more powerful than, Kryptonians), Superman soundly KO'd Lar, despite the fact that Superman was operating on empty lungs on the airless surface of the moon (Lar had air in his lungs however).
Action Comics Annual #7: Alone, Superman twice defeated alien armadas, each capable of destroying a planet.
Superman #153: Superman became the first being ever in the history of the Universe to defeat an Imperiex probe. He used a combination of super speed and super strength to destroy an Imperiex space construct ; said construct was capable of annihilating our solar system. Note that Superman took a blast from Imperiex, the beam aforementioned as being able to vaporize a solar system.
More On Kal-El's Durability.Thanks to Jak Sacul
Adventures of Superman #477: survives being at ground zero of an imploding sun-eater, followed by a plummet to Earth. KO'd; otherwise OK afterwards.
Adventures of Superman #478: survives the nuclear obliteration of the Earth's moon )in the 31st century, IIRC) without batting an eye.
Adventures #480: takes a dive into the outer layers of a red sun.
Man of Steel #64, Action Comics #782: goes into the core of a yellow sun.
Action Comics #696: takes a trip through a cosmic wormhole.
Hunter/Prey #3: weathers ground zero of the supposed "million nukes" blast on Calaton.
JLA/JSA Virtue/Vice: Goes through a black hole. Not sure if Sentinel protected him or not - it's not clear from the story.
Superman #9: weathers ground zero of a 40 megaton nuke followed by a fall to Earth from outer space. KO'd for a half hour, OK afterwards.
Superman for All Seasons #1 and Trinity #1: impressively endures ground zero nukes without loss of consciousness or injury.
Superman/Fantastic Four: the disputed "adamantium cutting lasers" event.
JLA: Created Equal #2: goes through a black hole (out of continuity).
Adventures of Superman #595: impressively resists Darkseid's Omega Beams.
Superman #181: Takes a punch from the magically created Bizarro creature which slams him clear through the Earth, in the ground through Metropolis, through the curst mantle and core and out through China. No injury or loss of consciousness. Smiles afterwards.
Man of Steel #127: takes an island-destroying nuke while sitting in Kryptonite-laced sand. No injury or loss of consciousness.
War of the Gods #4: blocks a magical beam capable of destroying an island (Paradise Island). Fails to completely mitigate the blast's effect - one person dies. Apparently briefly KO'd or at least in great pain as a result; otherwise OK at issue's end.
Adventures #581: takes a punch from a magical being that knocks him clear from Metropolis to China. No injury or loss of consciousness. Says "ouch".
Action #762: takes a punch from Etrigan the Demon that sends him from Metropolis to the Moon. No injury or loss of consciousness. Says "unff."
Trial of Superman (don't know the issues): survives various planet-powered particle beams from the Cyborg, one of which was said by the Cyborg to be capable of levelling a city. ("Believe me, I'd know" spake the Cyborg.)
Need I remind everyone that this is almost the weakest canon version of Superman we've ever seen?
Goku CANNOT beat Post-Crisis Superman:
In Superman Man of Steel #66, he once again acted as an effective shield, protecting cities around the world by blocking numerous "atom-smashing" force beams with his body. At one point he had 6 such beams trained on him simultaneously.
In Adventures of Superman #581, Superman allowed Adversary, a powerful magical foe, to hit him as hard as he could, without retaliation. Superman was literally punched halfway across the planet- from Metropolis, he literally landed in China- without any injury or loss of consciousness
But forget about being punched across the planet to China, how about through the planet to China? In Superman #181, Superman and Bizarro (his magically-created, brain damaged, "imperfect" duplicate) switched bodies. Superman (in Bizarro's body) punched Bizarro (in Superman's body) completely through the Earth and out the other end. Bizarro (in Superman's body) was slammed in through the ground in Metropolis and came out two panels later in China. He was shown ripping straight through the Earth?s crust, mantle, and core, and coming out on the other side of the planet. Superman's body was fully conscious and completely unharmed by the blow (Bizarro was smiling as usual).
In Man of Tomorrow #13, Superman harmlessly shrugged off a blast from Orion's Astro-Harness that blasted him across the planet from the North Pole to India.
Action Comics # 762: Superman harmlessly shrugged off a blow from the magical demon Etrigan. The blow actually knocked Superman from Earth's surface all the way to the moon (239,000 miles), a distance that is about 10 times the diameter of the Earth. Superman was virtually unfazed. In this issue he also shrugged off magical demon-fire (which he did previously in Action #589), and his super-lungs harmlessly inhaled the demon's magical gases.
In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman survived, at ground zero, a blast equal to "a million nuclear bombs" (according to the energy being Waverider). The explosion was caused by the destruction of the power generator for the entire planet of Calaton; the energy was drawn from the planetary core. Superman did not suffer any physical damage, but was momentarily rendered inert, and stated that he felt concussed. He then got up and boxed a little more with Doomsday, who also survived the blast.
In Adventures of Superman #478, as part of the Time and Time Again storyline, Superman survived- without so much as batting an eye- the nuclear destruction of the entire moon in the year 2995. The moon had been lined with sufficient nuclear devices to disintegrate it in one shot. When the moon was obliterated, Superman was actually within the moon (structures had been built beneath the surface of the moon). He did not suffer any harm and did not lose consciousness.
Superman's ability to survive immersion in the sun is well documented by now. In Adventures of Superman #480, Superman survived immersion in the sun for the first time, but with great difficulty. This was actually a RED sun at the time, due to the Eradicator's interference. In both the Superman: Last God of Krypton one shot and Superman Man of Steel #50, Superman survived immersion in the outer layers of the Earth's yellow sun enjoyably, received extra power from the sun, and effortlessly escaped the sun?s gravitational pull. Furthermore, in both Action Comics # 782 and Superman Man of Steel #64, Superman survived the core of the sun without any problems. The pressure at the core of the sun is equal to 250 billion Earth atmospheres.
In JLA #41, Superman absorbed the energy of the Mageddon Warhead, a device capable, at the minimum, of vaporizing half a galaxy. Writer Grant Morrison intended Mageddon to be "the primordial annihilator" capable of literally destroying everything. Visibly distressed by the absorption, Superman still suffered no harm whatsoever, and even smiled afterwards.
Man of Steel #30: Standing on Earth's surface, Superman punched Lobo into orbit and beyond with one uppercut.
Adventure of Superman #473: From Earth, Superman threw an alien space craft clear of Earth?s gravity and into outer space. This craft was larger than an aircraft carrier and over a mile long (a typical aircraft carrier is about a 1/4 of a mile long and weighs about 100,000 tons, so this ship was about 4x that size)
Several events show Superman as a moon-mover. In JLA # 7, as Electro-Superman, he halted the fall of the Moon towards Earth (caused by Neron's magical machinations), then moved the Moon back its proper position in orbit. He later commented that he's more powerful as "regular" Superman. Writer Grant Morrison and artist Howard Porter had originally intended the moon-moving event in JLA #7 be done by "regular" Superman , but DC forced them to use Electro-Supes. This event is butressed by several more. In JLA: The Century War, ancient "alchemical engines" were causing the moon to fall towards the Earth. Superman and Green Lantern took turns holding the moon back against the "geometrically increasing force" that was causing it to fall. Superman got the last "moon-bracing" shift. In Superman Man of Steel #30, Superman grabbed, easily broke the forward movement of, and easily threw in the opposite direction, a space ship the size of a small moon. In JLA # 58, Superman , Wonder Woman and Green Lantern collaborated to tow Earth's moon a distance of 238,900 miles in mere seconds, indicating a fantastic acceleration, and then pulled the moon out of Earth's gravity (which increases its weight tremendously). As he is universally regarded as the JLA's most powerful member, I'm inclined to give Superman more than one-third, and - conservatively - about one-half, the work effort. In the Lex 2000 special, with a single strike, Superman split one of Saturn's moons in half. Saturn's moons are small moons.
Action Comics #782: After emerging from the sun energized, Superman physically pushed WarWorld, (a small, Pluto-sized planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. WarWorld did engage a "full throttle countermeasure" in resistance Superman?s push. We can see WarWorld's engines (which encompass nearly an entire hemisphere of WarWorld's surface) firing in resistance, to no avail. WarWorld's engines allow WarWorld to travel at faster than light speeds through space, so they generate the power to accelerate a planet beyond light speed. "How is he moving my planet! The Kryptonian does not have that power!" Braniac's disbelief is reasonable since WarWorld's engines had no shortage of power ; WarWorld had just pirated the energy of Imperiex - energy gleaned from the devouring of many galaxies. (Hence Imperiex's reputation as the "Devourer of Galaxies.") Please note that Superman was energized beyond his usual power levels at this time.
Action Comics Annual #7: Fighting in space, Superman successfully resisted the pull from a black hole that had opened up directly below (inches from) his feet. The miniature black hole had been induced by advanced alien (Ht'ros) war technology.
Superman #13: Flew around the equator in a matter of seconds, indicating a speed of well over 1,000,000 mph, or roughly 1350 times the speed of sound.
Man of Steel #110: Standing in one spot, Superman used his super speed to vibrate his body invisible.
Superman #175: Taking another speed trick from the Flash?s book of tricks, Superman used his super speed to vibrate his body intangible, thus allowing Doomsday's punches and fire-breath to pass harmlessly through him. A body moving at light speed within an atmosphere will become intangible (that's how the Flash does it).
Return of Superman: Superman used his speed to vibrate his arm so fast, it shattered the Cyborg?s body into hundreds of fragments.
After racing the Man of Steel, Impulse stated that Superman travels at 99% of the speed of light.
War of the Gods #4: Superman actually out-raced an energy beam to its target. In JLA: Heavens Ladder, it is stated that Superman can race a photon to its target.
Lex 2000 special: Superman made the trip from Earth to Saturn in well under 4 minutes. By comparison, light takes about 19 minutes to make this trip. He was pissed at the time.
Superman #167: His power waning under a red sun, Superman still summoned enough heat vision to successfully power Jor-El's planet-moving ion engines. The planet in this case had a mass 16 times that of Earth's.
Superman's heat vision has a maximum range of at least 239,000 miles (the distance from the Earth to the Moon). In Superman #101, he let out a beam from Earth's surface that scorched the surface of the moon; In Man of Steel #112, he shot a beam that bounced off the surface of the moon. Krypto did, too.
In John Byrne's Man of Steel revamp, it was shown that Superman's microscopic vision can see on the subcellular level, as he analyzed Bizarro?s cellular structure; and even on the molecular level, as he analyzed the molecular composition of Magpie's acid-gas.
In the JLA: Earth 2 graphic novel, the Martian Manhunter and Superman mulled over the abnormalities at "every eighth angstrom" in the DNA of the anti-matter Earth's version of Lex Luthor. An angstrom is about the size of a large atom.
Superman #152: Superman's telescopic vision allowed him to peer across the galaxy to WarWorld.
In Man of Steel #121, Superman's super-hearing allowed him to pinpoint a single person in a city of 11 million based on such distinctive sounds as the rustle of that person's clothing and the sound of their heartbeat.
Soul Search: Fighting alone in Hell (literally), Superman single-handedly defeated Blaze, a death goddess, in her own realm. This had never been accomplished before by anyone; Blaze has magical control over the very reality of her realm. The attacks that Superman fought off included magical transmutation into a demon, which he shook off through sheer willpower ; magical energy blasts from Blaze ; a magical spell that encased him in stone, which he subsequently shattered; and immersion in the lava lakes of this magical dimension.
Alone against the Daxamite Lar Gand, (Daxamites are the genetic cousins to, but reputed to be more powerful than, Kryptonians), Superman soundly KO'd Lar, despite the fact that Superman was operating on empty lungs on the airless surface of the moon (Lar had air in his lungs however).
Action Comics Annual #7: Alone, Superman twice defeated alien armadas, each capable of destroying a planet.
Superman #153: Superman became the first being ever in the history of the Universe to defeat an Imperiex probe. He used a combination of super speed and super strength to destroy an Imperiex space construct ; said construct was capable of annihilating our solar system. Note that Superman took a blast from Imperiex, the beam aforementioned as being able to vaporize a solar system.
More On Kal-El's Durability.Thanks to Jak Sacul
Adventures of Superman #477: survives being at ground zero of an imploding sun-eater, followed by a plummet to Earth. KO'd; otherwise OK afterwards.
Adventures of Superman #478: survives the nuclear obliteration of the Earth's moon )in the 31st century, IIRC) without batting an eye.
Adventures #480: takes a dive into the outer layers of a red sun.
Man of Steel #64, Action Comics #782: goes into the core of a yellow sun.
Action Comics #696: takes a trip through a cosmic wormhole.
Hunter/Prey #3: weathers ground zero of the supposed "million nukes" blast on Calaton.
JLA/JSA Virtue/Vice: Goes through a black hole. Not sure if Sentinel protected him or not - it's not clear from the story.
Superman #9: weathers ground zero of a 40 megaton nuke followed by a fall to Earth from outer space. KO'd for a half hour, OK afterwards.
Superman for All Seasons #1 and Trinity #1: impressively endures ground zero nukes without loss of consciousness or injury.
Superman/Fantastic Four: the disputed "adamantium cutting lasers" event.
JLA: Created Equal #2: goes through a black hole (out of continuity).
Adventures of Superman #595: impressively resists Darkseid's Omega Beams.
Superman #181: Takes a punch from the magically created Bizarro creature which slams him clear through the Earth, in the ground through Metropolis, through the curst mantle and core and out through China. No injury or loss of consciousness. Smiles afterwards.
Man of Steel #127: takes an island-destroying nuke while sitting in Kryptonite-laced sand. No injury or loss of consciousness.
War of the Gods #4: blocks a magical beam capable of destroying an island (Paradise Island). Fails to completely mitigate the blast's effect - one person dies. Apparently briefly KO'd or at least in great pain as a result; otherwise OK at issue's end.
Adventures #581: takes a punch from a magical being that knocks him clear from Metropolis to China. No injury or loss of consciousness. Says "ouch".
Action #762: takes a punch from Etrigan the Demon that sends him from Metropolis to the Moon. No injury or loss of consciousness. Says "unff."
Trial of Superman (don't know the issues): survives various planet-powered particle beams from the Cyborg, one of which was said by the Cyborg to be capable of levelling a city. ("Believe me, I'd know" spake the Cyborg.)
Need I remind everyone that this is almost the weakest canon version of Superman we've ever seen?
Frequnetly Posted Stupidity.
Let's just save both our time, huh?
1. Q. "Well, Goku can blow up planets, go SSJ5, and kill people with a thought, and absorbed the Dragonballs and . . ."
A. No, he can't. He's never done so before, and if he's never done so, it is assumed that he can't. That is called using canon information. If you have proof, show it to us.
2. Q. "Why would they fight? They're both heroes!"
A. Heroes fight each other all the time for a variety of reasons. Hell, Goku has fought with every one of his friends at some point in his life, with the POSSIBLE exception of Dende.
3. Q. "Why did you post this?"
A. Because it seemed like a good idea at the time. Using logic to counter fantardation is a hobby of mine. The fact that it was Kyle's logic makes it no less logical.
4. Q. "Well, I still think Goku would win!"
A. When you can prove it with canon facts, maybe we'll listen.
5. Q. "But Gotenks opened a rip in dimensions by screaming! And Gohan pulled the sword from the stone! And . . . and Vegeta destroys planets!"
A: And? None of them are Goku. By the same coin, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Silver Surfer aren't Superman.
6. Q. "Who cares? Let it die!"
A. We care. We, who are tired of people who will blindly scream how Goku, who is a snail in both speed AND strength compared to Superman, is "strong, faster, etc." And there are plenty of other threads for you to troll in. If you don't like this one'h come here. Piss off.
7. Q. "Kryptonite!"
A: Goku? The guy who always fights fair? He wouldn't use it.
8. Q. "Goku gets stronger with every fight! He can't lose!"
A. The number of fights it'd take for him to reach Superman's level? He'd die of old age before he got there.
9. Q. "They're not real!"
A. Neither is Inuyasha, Naruto, Spike Speigle or . . . well, most of what you discuss in AMC.
10. Q. "Goku could get the dragoinballs and wish him dead!"
A. No. he can't. First and foremost, like with the kryptonite argument, it's something he wouldn't do in the first damned place, because he'd want as close to a fair fight as he could get. Secondly . . . that's too powerful a wish for the balls to grant. They couldn't kill Vegeta and Nappa at the beginning of the Saiyan Saga. it damn sure wouldn't work against Superman. Finally, with the speed Superman has, he wouldn't LET Goku gather said balls.
11. Q. "Superman fanboys!"
A. Actually many of this thread's regulars are fans of Superman AND DBZ. I, personally, like DBZ more than Superman.
12. Q. "Kamhehame ha! Superman can only punch!"
A. Umm . . . heat vision that reignited a sun?
13. "You can't close a black hole!"
A. Prove it. Besides, real world science doesn't apply to comic books.
14. "OMG! SSJ5!"
There is no SSJ5. There is no DBAF. It's a fan fiction. Reference it at your peril.
