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 Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:30 pm
I wish I had the time to state my opnion but yeah...
Discussion:
Do you believe in abortions? Why or why not?
Do you think that if a girl gets raped, it should be ok if she gets an abortion? Why or why not?
When do you think that an abortion becomes murder and that the sperm/egg/zygote/thingy are living? (if you don't believe that as soon as the sperm meets to egg its alive)
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:29 pm
I don't belive that live begins at conception. It is of my belief that life is a cycle that never ends. Although I don't support abortion I admit there are some cases where it is neccicary. I'd prefer giving the child up for adoption in any case since I myself am adopted and am very glad of that fact. It I had been aborted I would not be going to see Samantha where she lives in Utah and I wouldn't have met my current best friend who'll be going with me.
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:13 pm
 let me first say that i believe the Constitution protects a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, including the decision to have an abortion.
i agree with those who point out that abortion is sometimes overused, or not thought out properly. it's not birth control, nor should it be abused as such.
also--being pro-choice does NOT make me PRO ABORTION.
i have a very hard time believing that very many people are "pro abortion," it seems that those who are in favor of a woman's right to choose more often believe it is a terrible thing, and should only be used when necessary.
that said, i don't personally consider a fetus to be a person.
it is a life, yes. killing it is a bad thing, yes. but i don't consider it murder.
to me, a fetus starts to be a human being when it is developed enough to exist independently from the womb. this is usually late in the second trimester, or the in third trimester.
late-term abortions are almost without exception illegal.
in my opinion, if the woman can't get an abortion within the first term it maybe ought not to happen.
you ought to make that decision when you first find out that you're pregnant, before the fetus becomes more developed.
i'm aware that there are more than a few reasons why one would decide to have an abrtion later, but it'd better be a darn good reason.
i'm a firm believer that a woman should be able to do almost whatever she pleases with her own body.
it is NOT the government's job to pass legislation informing her what she can and can't do in the situation of a pregnancy.
it is NOT her sex partner's job to require she have an abortion or keep the baby, whichever the case may be.
it is NOT up to her parents what she is allowed to do, even as a minor.
it's HER body, HER life, and there are MANY reasons why a woman wouldn't want to bear a child.
as was already pointed out, there are more than enough children in the world that don't have good homes and loving families.
why create more? adoption is only a viable option for those who:
a) are able to carry the baby full term. keep in mind that this can screw up someone's health, career or psychological well-being.
b) are able to find someone to adopt.
believe me--children in need of adoption aren't rare or scarce. overpopulation is a growing problem.
i won't even get into rape, incest, the baby/mother's health, or any other extreme situations, but i will say this.
if abortion is made illegal, it will put us back to the days where women had coathanger abotions in back alleys and died from bleeding to death.
rich women will be able to pay doctors trained in abortions to preform safe abortions with the proper equiptment while poor women attempt the procedure themselves.
that is simply not equitible.
additionally, there is more to pregancy that effects a woman than just the "pain" so to speak.
childbirth (and carrying a child to term for 9 months) is very taxing from a physical standpoint, as well as emotionally.
it's not very good for your body.
it's inconvinient.
let's not pretend that if the woman is in a career where pregancy is considered a liability (if she were a lawyer, or a doctor, let's say) or a problem, it couldn't effect her entire career.
i know child support laws are stupid, i agree with with people who say that it's unfair to ask a man to pay child support for a child he doesn't want.
that i have never understood.
BUT the woman can do what she would like in terms of deciding to keep the baby. that's a flaw within the realm of financial law regarding custodial rights, not a matter of abortion.
no man should have the right to force a woman to choose one way or the other about she she is doing with her body.
actually, no one at all should.
on the same reasoning: two people opted to engage in sexual relations, why should the woman be punished if an accident happens?
i am sick of hearing people complain about how women ought to protect themselves during sex to prevent pregnancy.
well, accidental pregnancy sometimes happens regardless of the protection a couple was using.
condoms, birth control pills, and other methods of birth control have very high percetages of protection, but ONLY if they're used correctly.
studies have found that very few people actually use these forms of protection in the manner that would be necessary for the full amount of protection assured by the product to exist.
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:17 pm
Abortion is a tricky subject. I, in fact, do and do not believe in abortion. Yes, I'm confusing like that xd
I mostly support abortion because I know that having a baby is tough, especially if you are my age and in high school. Heck, it's even tough in college. A baby costs a lot of money. However, if the parents of the baby can find a good orphanage, the mother should go on with having the baby. However, I do know that not all orphanages are good and that many kids have hard time in orphanages, though there are good ones out there. It really depends.
If the girl was raped, if she wants an abortion, she should have every right to do so. She didn't want that child and so she didn't want to have sex with the rapist. It's not her fault at all. (Well...some girls get raped by putting themselves in stupid situations so it is partly their fault, but still. sweatdrop )
I don't think abortion is murder; murder is methodically planned out.
As for when the egg is actually alive...I'm really not sure. I haven't obtained enough information to figure out what I believe yet.
In the end, I'm pro-choice.
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:01 am
Abortion has always been a very touchy subject, because everyone has different opinions on it.
I agree with it to a certain extent
Things such as if the pregancy was caused by rape, if the mother is too young and couldn't give the child a decent life, if the child couldn't be supported, or the birth would be a risk to the mothers health. These are all cases where I think abortion is ok.
If the parents can't give a child a decent life, then surely it's better to abort it, rather than giving it up for adoption and adding to the millions of children who already need a home.
On the other hand, I hate the way some people use abortion as a form of contraception. Who will have sex unprotected and just brush it off saying "it's ok, I can have an abortion".
That is the kind of arrogance and recklessness that I can't tolerate.
I do think some people have abortions too late, I think you can have an abortion up to 12 weeks, but I'm not sure. By that time, the fetus looks like a baby, and can show signs of personality. I think you shouldn't be able to have an abortion so late on in a pregnacy.
I don't think abortion should be made illegal. That would cause disasterous consequences, with the come back of back street abortions, where women used to die of blood loss or infection. Remember Penny from Dirty Dancing? "A dirty knife and a fold out table". That's what it would be like, that's what it USED to be like, before abortions were made legal.
My final point some people may find sexist, but it's my opinion.
I don't like how some men get so passionate about saying abortion is wrong and how they think it is murder. I don't mind that they think this as they are intitled to their own opinion, but how can you have such a strong opinion on something you will never experience? That man will never know that fear of thinking your pregnant, or knowing your pregnant with a baby you don't want/can't care for etc. They will never have to carry a baby which was the outcome of being raped.
Sexist it may be, but I feel very strongly about it.
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:15 am
Plumy's opnion:
'mkay. Yeah, I think abortions are perfectly fine under a few conditions: 1) The abortion would take place early in the pregnancy. Theres a certain point (I'm still unsure what I think that point is) where it does become murder. Of course, I don't really like [human]babies that much so I couldn't give a damn XD *don't hurt me*
2) When the girl and the guy were "doing their thing" they took measures to be safe. There is a very slim chance of getting pregnant despite protection.
3) If the girl was raped, commited incest, etc. Under these conditions, you wouldn't really want to have the baby
4) The girl is young (teens to early twenties) and can't support the baby, or it would be dangerous if she carried it.
So yeah. -Too lazy to go into too much detail- I know that if I ever got pregnant, I would get an abortion without a second thought. (I could never take care of a child. I hate being depended on. Kids....bother me sweatdrop I'm also anti-human so I would rather not contirbute to the humans population problem XD)
Blah...I'll add more later
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:18 am
Plum the dragon knight Plumy's opnion: 'mkay. Yeah, I think abortions are perfectly fine under a few conditions: 1) The abortion would take place early in the pregnancy. Theres a certain point (I'm still unsure what I think that point is) where it does become murder. Of course, I don't really like [human]babies that much so I couldn't give a damn XD *don't hurt me* 2) When the girl and the guy were "doing their thing" they took measures to be safe. There is a very slim chance of getting pregnant despite protection. 3) If the girl was raped, commited incest, etc. Under these conditions, you wouldn't really want to have the baby 4) The girl is young (teens to early twenties) and can't support the baby, or it would be dangerous if she carried it. So yeah. -Too lazy to go into too much detail- I know that if I ever got pregnant, I would get an abortion without a second thought. (I could never take care of a child. I hate being depended on. Kids....bother me sweatdrop I'm also anti-human so I would rather not contirbute to the humans population problem XD) Blah...I'll add more later lmao, I like your ending point. It amused me rofl Stupid kids. Them and their high frequencies...Sometimes you just want to duct tape their mouths shut xd I would also get an abortion at this stage in life. By the time I'm at least well into college or finishing up college, I wouldn't mind going through with a baby, but right now I'm just not ready.
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:24 am
[ Rose ] Plum the dragon knight Plumy's opnion: 'mkay. Yeah, I think abortions are perfectly fine under a few conditions: 1) The abortion would take place early in the pregnancy. Theres a certain point (I'm still unsure what I think that point is) where it does become murder. Of course, I don't really like [human]babies that much so I couldn't give a damn XD *don't hurt me* 2) When the girl and the guy were "doing their thing" they took measures to be safe. There is a very slim chance of getting pregnant despite protection. 3) If the girl was raped, commited incest, etc. Under these conditions, you wouldn't really want to have the baby 4) The girl is young (teens to early twenties) and can't support the baby, or it would be dangerous if she carried it. So yeah. -Too lazy to go into too much detail- I know that if I ever got pregnant, I would get an abortion without a second thought. (I could never take care of a child. I hate being depended on. Kids....bother me sweatdrop I'm also anti-human so I would rather not contirbute to the humans population problem XD) Blah...I'll add more later lmao, I like your ending point. It amused me rofl Stupid kids. Them and their high frequencies...Sometimes you just want to duct tape their mouths shut xd I would also get an abortion at this stage in life. By the time I'm at least well into college or finishing up college, I wouldn't mind going through with a baby, but right now I'm just not ready. Its true though! Plum + little kids = not good stressed There is no doubt in my mind that I wouldn't get an abortion at my age. I'm very young. It would probaly be dangerous if I went through the abortion.
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:24 am
Like rose, i'm for and not for. It depends on many things-Age, the situation, etc. I have many opinions on this subject, but most of them have already been said, and it just takes up space if I say them again. So, terra has left this post short and sweet.
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:03 pm
I don't think it is right at all. Even from a very early stage of development, the baby is doing normal baby things...sucking thumbs, crying, yawning, hiccuping, sneezing, etc 3nodding ...even in the womb. It's really an amazing thing. And unborn babies are aware of what goes on outside the womb...my mom saw this movie once when she was pregnant with my older brother. It had a scene of a woman giving herself an abortion with a coat hanger. My unborn brother had a fit as if attempting to "get away". Unborn babies also fight for their lives durning an abortion...and their struggle does damage to the womb making it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to get pregnant again. Plus, and unfortuantely this goes for miscarriages too, durning pregnancy, the body goes thru hormonal changes that are keyed into various areas of fetal development. Abortion causes a radical stop of these hormones (progesterone...the hormone of pregnancy...is the major one) which cause the body to suddenly have to kick up the suppressed estrogen levels ...this sudden radical hormonal imbalance increases the risk of cancer, such as cervical and breast cancers, later in life. And when I think that thru abortion we've killed more Americans than Hitler killed Jews in the Holocaust... xp
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:37 am
"killed more Americans" is quite the relative statement, and only applicable if one believes that aborting a fetus is murder, which i do not.
comparing abortions to jews killed in the holocaust is wrong on EVERY level.
that's absolutely offensive.
the holocaust was a genocide, the SYSTEMATIC killing of a certain group of people in a sick attempt to "cleanse" society.
that is not at all like abortion, which is an attempt to lower the number of unwanted babies born in our already overpopulated world.
there are FAR more children up for adoption than there are people to adopt them. what kind of a life are these children going to have?
maybe a fetus does "baby things," but when did we start caring more about the well-being and happiness of a fetus not yet developed than the woman carrying it?
it's her body, and her life, and as much as i even hesitate to say it, SHE'S the one who already has a life and is a contributing member of society.
no one could possibly argue that a woman isn't a person, but the scientific community is still split on whether a fetus is in fact a person.
as for abortions being dangerous to the woman:
that may be so, but i know a number of women who have had abortions and then had no problem getting pregnant again, and gave birth to healthy children.
statitically, it's not likely that she will sustain permanent damage from an abortion.
the majority of the abortions done in the US are chemically induced, extremely early on in a pregnancy, and it's not the "fighting for their life" scenario that's described int he context of a late-term abortion.
a lot of the information on BOTH sides is merely propoganda.
if you don't believe in abortion, don't get one.
it's not your job, or the government's job, or the court's job, to decide what aother woman is allowed to do with her body.
if she wants to take the risks to her health associated with getting an abortion, that's between her and her doctor.
if abortion wasn't legal, LOTS of people would be getting abortions similar to those that used to occur before aborion was legalized.
you may think it's a terrible thing that so many fetuses are aborted, but consider this--in an abortion not done properly, there is a VERY good chance that not only would the pregnancy be terminated, but the mother would die as well.
that's twice as many "deaths" (provided you count the terminated pregancy as a death.)
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:45 pm
~*~ ninja heart ninja ~*~
I agree with you Llama! I don't think I need to add anything. Yes, the holocaust and abortions are veeeeeeeeeery different. Also, techinically the fetus isn't even alive. In one of the old FGG threads there was a disscussion on this topic and someone had eveidence thta proved that the baby isn't techinically considered living in the early stages of pregnancy. 3nodding And yes, if abortions weren't legal, then there would still be people trying to perofm aboritions in totally unsafe enviorments. eek
~*~ heart ninja heart ~*~
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:31 pm
did you mean to say that the baby "isn't" considered living in the early stages of pregnancy? (you typed "is" but it sounded in context as if you meant "isn't.")
i agree with that particular argument, but the scientific community really is fairly split on that issue.
you can find evidence both for and against that argument.
the real point is that they HAVE no conclusion about the life-status of the fetus, while they (quite obviously) all agree that the woman carrying the fetus IS a person.
3nodding
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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:27 am
the fuzziest llama did you mean to say that the baby "isn't" considered living in the early stages of pregnancy? (you typed "is" but it sounded in context as if you meant "isn't.")
i agree with that particular argument, but the scientific community really is fairly split on that issue.
you can find evidence both for and against that argument.
the real point is that they HAVE no conclusion about the life-status of the fetus, while they (quite obviously) all agree that the woman carrying the fetus IS a person.
3nodding
~*~ ninja heart ninja ~*~
Oops, I did mean "isn't" *goes to fix that*
Although I agree with the scientist saying the fetus isn't alive, I do agree with you on the fact the women is indeed alive. (um, duh, Plum XD) So yeah... -can't think of anything else to say 'cause its eight o'clock in the morning @_-@ -
~*~ heart ninja heart ~*~
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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:55 pm
the fuzziest llama "killed more Americans" is quite the relative statement, and only applicable if one believes that aborting a fetus is murder, which i do not.
comparing abortions to jews killed in the holocaust is wrong on EVERY level.
that's absolutely offensive.
the holocaust was a genocide, the SYSTEMATIC killing of a certain group of people in a sick attempt to "cleanse" society.
that is not at all like abortion, which is an attempt to lower the number of unwanted babies born in our already overpopulated world.
there are FAR more children up for adoption than there are people to adopt them. what kind of a life are these children going to have?
maybe a fetus does "baby things," but when did we start caring more about the well-being and happiness of a fetus not yet developed than the woman carrying it?
it's her body, and her life, and as much as i even hesitate to say it, SHE'S the one who already has a life and is a contributing member of society.
no one could possibly argue that a woman isn't a person, but the scientific community is still split on whether a fetus is in fact a person.
as for abortions being dangerous to the woman:
that may be so, but i know a number of women who have had abortions and then had no problem getting pregnant again, and gave birth to healthy children.
statitically, it's not likely that she will sustain permanent damage from an abortion.
the majority of the abortions done in the US are chemically induced, extremely early on in a pregnancy, and it's not the "fighting for their life" scenario that's described int he context of a late-term abortion.
a lot of the information on BOTH sides is merely propoganda.
if you don't believe in abortion, don't get one.
it's not your job, or the government's job, or the court's job, to decide what aother woman is allowed to do with her body.
if she wants to take the risks to her health associated with getting an abortion, that's between her and her doctor.
if abortion wasn't legal, LOTS of people would be getting abortions similar to those that used to occur before aborion was legalized.
you may think it's a terrible thing that so many fetuses are aborted, but consider this--in an abortion not done properly, there is a VERY good chance that not only would the pregnancy be terminated, but the mother would die as well.
that's twice as many "deaths" (provided you count the terminated pregancy as a death.)
I doubt more Americans have been killed through abortion than the people who went through the Holocaust. Do you even know HOW many people died in the Holocaust? And abortion is not genocide, just like what llama said. I agree with you completely, llama.
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