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I thought they "went all the way"...which, honestly, kind of disturbed me sweatdrop . I actually have an amusing memory of the first time I read that particular part. Consists of my eyes going wider than healthy. But maybe I just have a sick mind.

I think Hollywood will play it down to little more than a kiss if they actually go with actruate aged actors.

I was never, ever under the impression they went all the way. That's not to say I didn't consider that one scene you refer to as perhaps leading up to that being a possibility. But, for some reason, I never believe that Lyra and Will had sex. I believe this for a couple of reasons. First of all, Will is an exceptionally responsible boy, and more than that, he is a rather naive one. He was actually relatively sheltered. I believe that it wouldn't occur to him at all to even attempt anything with Lyra. And Lyra would probably never really have had the talk about birds and the bees, let alone think to attempt it.

Of course, this is just my interpretation. For all I know, many more people than me saw this to the contrary. I just don't know if Hollywood would make the gutsy move of going through with this, especially because I am still unsure as to whether or not the producers of the movie want a PG rating, or PG-13 sweatdrop

I personally believe that they did have sex, and there's no real problem with that at all. It's a perfectly nature and healthy thing for them to engage in and it would come naturally. You don't need to have it explained to you to know how it works, when you're with the one you love, nothing else matters but her. A large part of the story is about coming of age, and sex is part of growing up and nothing to be ashamed of.

Hmm, well... to a point you don't need the birds and the bees explained, but... generally it isn't obvious either. I would never have even considered how sex really works if I was never told, and I doubt Lyra has thought about it. Will would know, though, no doubt.
But, just because it's natural doesn't make it good. Pregnancy and so on is not something to be taken lightly. I don't know though, if Lyra did have Will's child, imagine how different the ending would be! It's fascinating to consider, in my opinion 3nodding

I know what you mean about "not to be taken lightly"..... And WOW the ending sure whould have been different.... WOOOOOOOWWWWW. OMG that is STRANGE to think about. You know, I have brainstormed a million different alternate endings, and this just never occured to me. The many many new possibilities...

Yeah, for me my assumptions on what happened between Will and Lyra really heightened the emotion of the ending. The Amber Spyglass and Where the Red Fern Grows are the only books I can think of where I've flat out cried because the emotion was so intense.

That and I also love the way the scene seemed (in my mind) to parallel a biblical story; the story of Adam and Eve, and the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge (typically characterized as an apple. For further parallels lets just say Mary is the tempter, by telling them story's of how she fell in love, and stimulating a thirst for knowledge or something). When Lyra gave Will the little red fruit, I couldn't help but draw the comparison, and the knowledge that they were gaining was knowledge of themselves, and knowledge of love. I'd always been mystified why the Bible would have gaining knowledge be sinful, and was so happy to see this myth transformed into a positive uplifting experience rather than be the origin of sin (as the church would put it). There's nothing sinful about being true to ones feelings and loving, and learning. Nothing!



I'm not so sure I agree with you. I'm almost positive that it would be almost painfully obvious to them both what they would need to do. I'm curious why you're so sure Will would know what to do, and why Lyra wouldn't. Most girls I've talked to on the subject have told me that they have as intense feelings, physical desires and urges for sex as any guy. I'm sure that after the kissing the physical, mental, and emotional arousal would be to the point where things would just fall into place, so to speak.

And while it's true that something natural not being of necessity good, I would argue that sharing the physical manifestation of passionate love for one another is good. Granted there are potential consequences, which may necessitate changes in future plans, and some degree of hardship, it's impossible to tell what the future might hold anyway. If avoiding pregnancy is important to you then, by all means you should take precaution (don't get me wrong), and granted that as children they would probably be unaware of that and that may lead them to trouble, I would hesitate to say that the action is wrong on account of it's consequences. But arguing about how to place moral worth on an action is something that's preoccupied philosopher's for millennia with no sound agreement having been reached.

As for Lyra having Will's child, do we know for a fact that this is ruled out as a possibility? I don't quite remember the time scale (as it's been awhile since I read the book last) but it certainly seems plausible that a potential pregnancy would be as yet undetected. Would be an interesting twist, but I doubt anything official will come of it, as that would deprive readers of letting Will and Lyra's relationship to progress no farther than they wish it (which seemed to be the intent).

Fair enough.

There is a reason for that wink . And yes I don't really understand completely, and perhaps I'm unable to convey what I mean with words, but I certainly hope I didn't come off that naive.

You have a point. I can honestly say that thinking about the baby never occurred to me.


I'm glad to have heard your thoughts and explanations, and while I've come to different conclusions I can certainly respect your position. Agree to disagree?

(Sorry if this post seems rather trivial and pointless, but I've already said my piece and don't really have anything new to add, but wanted to put some closure to the topic, so that you knew I read it.)