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 Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:16 am
Is it okay to tell little white lies? what is a little white lie? Is it okay (not by society's standards but by our individual standards) for us to lie to get out of miniscule trouble? How about major trouble like with the police adn law?
One thing I'm perplexed about is where honesty stands in comparison to other values, such as loyalty to friends and loyalty to oneself. In legal matters (like in a courtroom) which would/should morally (not lawfully) win out-- loyalty to a friend in trouble or honesty to the court and system? Would betraying loyalty differ from betraying honesty?
Just discuss and have fun!
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:37 am
I do think it is ok to tell little white lies. Where I think the lie should stand is if someone's going to be hurt by you not telling the truth. For instance say you cheat on a test. The teaacher's a bit susupicious, and asks you. You say no, because they have no proof they elt you go. You ace the test. Now that didn't hurt the teacher, and depending on whether you copied from a friend, someone else, or some other way entirirely, it probably didn't hurt them. It'd be more likely if it was someone you didn't know to affect them negatively, but it's true, 'what you don't know can't hurt you.'
However I don't think you should completely live by that line. Let's say you're cheating on a spouse. They never find out. The fact si that fi they did find out, or if they asked and lied about it, THEN they found out, that woujld be extremely emotionally damaging to them. Obviously there's the thought of not doing ti in the first palce. But once it's been done, in those situations it would be better to tell the truth.
Now onto the law. Personally I don't think the law is designed very well, but that's a different story. I think loyalty for someone you know and trust, compared to rules set up by someone you don't know, should take priority. While fi your friend went ahead and murdered someone that would be a differnt case. But you need ot keep in mind the reasons they might have done it, what would happen to them if you told the truth, and how the victims family is faring. Personally I know I could never sentence someone close to me to prison. I just couldn't do it. However I wouldn't teswtify for them either. At least I don't think so. But in my mind, loyalty to a friend definitely overpowers honestly to the law.
Keep in mind, these are just my ideas. There's plenty fo people who think otherwise, whether it's because of their background, experience, or something else entirely.
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:39 pm
truth is a very black and white concept in my opinion. you either tell the truth 100% of the time, or you don't. but you shouldn't pretend that it's okay to lie to save someone's feelings or that it's for someone's own good. truth is blind to all those social norms and doesn't lend itself to giving you a lot of friends.
another thing i see about truth is that the difference between truth and opinion can be really hazy. one must be critical of themselves above all others to earn the right to tell a truth that can be called credible.
i can't pan out all my thoughts right now because kill bill 2 is on and i've never seen it before, but one must consider according to whom it is that they're telling the truth. whether it be a religous order, a scientific one, a friend's opinion or story in a courtroom, whatever. one may even find that there is no such thing as an absolute truth. who knows. anyways, back to something called a 5 finger exploding heart. that sounds pretty groovy! >.>
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:54 pm
If you convince yourself you believe it, it is no longer a lie, and part of reality. If you don't, then it is wrong to you, because to you it is a lie, but to everyone else, it is reality, until some other circumstance should break the lie-reality-thing.
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:44 am
-t h e-b o o k-t h i e f- If you convince yourself you believe it, it is no longer a lie, and part of reality. If you don't, then it is wrong to you, because to you it is a lie, but to everyone else, it is reality, until some other circumstance should break the lie-reality-thing. Hi, would you please given an example where believing a false statement becomes a part of reality? ^_^
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:55 pm
Sorry, to clarify.
If you percieve something to exist and be true, than it is a existing part of your reality. It's the only logical way I've found to define 'reality' at all.
Like, if you tell someone, "Yes, I said hi to Mrs. Whatsherface this morning," that person will have somewhere in their image of reality "So-and-so said hi to Mrs. Whatsherface this morning." If Mrs. Whatsherface comes up and says "Why didn't so-and-so say hi today?" the reality shifts to 'Oh, so-and-so must not have told the truth.' But until then, the person percieves so-and-so to have told the truth.
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:37 pm
-t h e-b o o k-t h i e f- Sorry, to clarify. If you percieve something to exist and be true, than it is a existing part of your reality. It's the only logical way I've found to define 'reality' at all. Like, if you tell someone, "Yes, I said hi to Mrs. Whatsherface this morning," that person will have somewhere in their image of reality "So-and-so said hi to Mrs. Whatsherface this morning." If Mrs. Whatsherface comes up and says "Why didn't so-and-so say hi today?" the reality shifts to 'Oh, so-and-so must not have told the truth.' But until then, the person percieves so-and-so to have told the truth. Hey, thanks for clarifying. The example you gave happens a lot in novels and stories I've had to read. It can sometimes be tragic. Here are a few literary examples of falsehood becoming a part of reality: 1. Romeo and Juliet -- you know the part where Romeo thinks Juliet is dead but isn't, and so he kills himself. 2. In Jane Austen novels the women always think that a guy's totally good but then they find out he's bad, or vice versa. In Pride & Prejudice, Darcy starts off really bad, but then later Elizabeth sees his redeeming qualities.
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Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:10 pm
Yes, exactly. Of course, it can happen in real life; the results just tend not to be as dramatic. wink
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Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:30 am
Desdemono If you convince yourself you believe it, it is no longer a lie, and part of reality. If you don't, then it is wrong to you, because to you it is a lie, but to everyone else, it is reality, until some other circumstance should break the lie-reality-thing. The facts don't cease to be just because they are ignored. you may belive that you have done no wrong, but the acctuality of what happened does not change. at that point it just becomes self-deception and that too is a lie. I personally don't think even the smallest of white liesshould be told, but then, I'm a Hypocrite with the best of them. quite honestly, I like many people will do a lot to save myself, even at the expense of others.
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