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Did Erik exist?
  He exists within every Phantom fan.
  Parts of it was true- so surely there was an Erik if not the Erik.
  No.
  Yes.
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Norofel
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:01 pm


As I hope you all know, Gaston Leroux was the man to bring Erik and his genius to us and begin the entire collection that exists today.

How does it differ from today's Phantom?

Today, based on Webber's musical and Schumacher's movie, people have had a completely different perception of the Erik that had started it all.


Summarized below for those who want to understand the story more. Please excuse the awful summary- I typed this all at once and will come back to edit it..


The book's most obvious difference revolves around Erik's appearance. In the musical today, only half of his face is disfigured- the other half is typically handsome, giving the viewer the assumption that it couldn't possibly as terrible as he makes it out to be. But in the original book, Erik wears a full mask that completely covers his face. His eyes are deep black pits that glow red in the darkness, and his skin is sickening yellow. He was told to have "Death's hand" and his touch was cold as ice.

It was to no surprise, then, that as soon as Christine passed through the mirror that she was struck with dumb terror.

That's right, everyone. Christine was not willingly taken into the lair. She had screamed in terror and struggled as Erik led her into the depths of the opera house. He had to place his hand to her mouth to stop her screaming, and she claimed it was "a hand that smelt of death." Through her entire time in his lair, tthe majority of the emotions she felt for him were fear and pity. Erik was angered that she had only loved him as The Voice, but eventually let her leave.

Later in the story, she promises to return to his lair, and she does. Once she removes his mask, however, he changes his tune..
"As long as you thought me handsome, you could have come back, and I know you would have come back. ."
Erik refuses to let her leave, until she claims that she loves him despite his appearance. This of course was a lie.

Later in the story, Christine tells Raoul of what had happened. As soon as Erik realizes that she had lied when she said she loved him, he makes plans to take her back. She disappears in the middle of song (Erik was not in the performance itself, he was busy managing the trap doors under Christine).

After this we are introduced to the Persian(though he was mentioned earlier in the book). The Persian was Erik's only friend, and he had saved Erik from those who wanted to kill him for the crimes he committed.

The Persian helps Raoul into Erik's lair, telling him that if he does not keep his hand at the level of his eyes, he will be defeated with the Punjab lasso. Raoul and the Persian come across Erik's torture chamber, constructed exactly as it had been back in Africa. Listening to the wall, the Persian hears Erik and Christine speaking. Erik departs as he hears someone enter his lair, which gives Raoul and the Persian a chance to speak with her.

Christine was tied to a chair, because she had attempted to commit suicide after being left alone in Erik's lair. Erik had given her two decisions. Either she would promise to marry him, or everyone would be dead and buried.

The Persian and Raoul convinced the tearful girl to make Erik believe she would not attempt suicide again and use her freedom to find a key to the torture chamber. After Erik unties her, Christine manages to get her hands on the key, only to be found out by Erik.

Erik, being the intelligent fellow he is, realizes that there is someone in the torture chamber, then turning the light on and causing an illusion of a forest to appear, heat slowly rising in the room and driving the two insane. After finding a small hole in the ground, the Persian helps Raoul into it and out of the heat, where they find many barrels of gunpowder, which gives the answer to why Erik had claimed everyone would be dead and buried.

The decision begins as Erik introduces her to the scorpion and the grasshopper. The little figures are to signal her decision to him. If she turns the scorpion, it will say that she wants to marry him. However, if she turns the grasshopper, it tells him that she does not wish to marry him. He leaves her with a final warning:
"A grasshopper does not only turn: it hops! It hops! And it hops jolly high!"

As Erik leaves, Christine returns once more to the door of the torture chambers to tell Raoul and the Persian of her troubles. They come to the conclusion that in the grasshopper there is a bomb, and it would set off the gunpowder if she turned it. Raoul, very intent on not dying, begins to shout to Christine to turn the scorpion. The Persian disagrees and argues that it may be another one of Erik's tricks- and the scorpion could be the figure concealing the bomb. Before they can rest on a decision, Erik returns and offers to turn the grasshopper for her. With Christine's hesitation, Erik reaches for the grasshopper, and panic ensues. Raoul falls to his knees praying, and the Persian begins to scream.

Amidst the noise and panic, Christine shouts "Erik! I have turned the scorpion!" and water rises to the gunpowder, soaking it and causing it to be unusable. It also drowns the Persian and Raoul to the very last bit of life they have, and it is Christine who tells her husband to let them free. After he speaks with them and lets the Persian go, Raoul is still in his lair.

After Erik had chained Raoul up, Christine approached him. He kissed her forehead and was overwhelmed by such love they began to cry together. They shared a tearful moment when Erik realizes that he must free her and Raoul. He does this, then telling the Persian of what had happened, crying and claiming he was dying of love.

The final words of the last chapter were:
"Erik is dead."

Having said this, I will also leave you with a quote from Leroux, and an explanation of this quote from the official fansite of the Phantom of the Opera.


The Opera ghost really existed. He was not, as was long believed, a creature of the imagination of the artists, the superstition of the managers, or a product of the absurd and impressionable brains of the young ladies of the ballet, their mothers, the box-keepers, the cloak-room attendants or the concierge. Yes, he existed in flesh and blood, although he assumed the complete appearance of a real phantom; that is to say, of a spectral shade.

-Gaston Leroux

Did the Phantom exist?

Whether Phantom is a true story or not is a much-debated topic amongst fans.

Gaston Leroux was an investigative journalist, and the novel is written in the style of a true narrative - Leroux wrote an article some 15 years after the novel's publication in which he again insisted that the story was true, but as this coincided with the release of the Lon Chaney film one has to regard it as a publicity ploy as much as anything else.

Leroux's diaries, in which he detailed some of his thought processes in creating the characters, apparently exist but have not been published. It is not thought that he claims the story is real in any way in his journals.

Certain events and characters were based on, or inspired by, real occurences - the counterweight of the chandelier once fell, Carlotta was based on a person named Mlle. Carvalho, and Christine's story and childhood are clearly based on the singer Christine Nilsson.

Other research has found a real de Chagny family whose names make it clear that Leroux was referencing them with his characters (such as Mme de La Martinière, Raoul's mother).

Although staff at the Paris Opera House usually prefer not to talk about the Phantom, at least one former staff member has talked about the Phantom legend, and claimed that a skeleton with a ring (as described by Leroux) was found early in the 20th century, along with a house built into the cellars of the opera. I am not aware of any external verification for these claims.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:21 pm


That's a highly detailed and correct summary of the book! It's nice to see a dedicated fan! I've read every scrap of information that I can muster on the Phantom, but it's hard to come by. I think that the Phantom almost certainly existed. Leroux used artistic lisence to fill in the gaps in both the story and the charactors, however, I very much doubt that he could create a charactor with such depth without any form of reference or information. So, to me, Erik once walked under the streets, but maybe with a differnt name or a different affliction. The records from the theatre has been purged of most references of the Phantom, unless they were needed for financial records. E.G: The counter weight falling. Leroux tried to open peoples minds......and he's been so successful. Just look at how much media exists today! Which version is seen as best remains an issue for discussion, but to me, Erik is not dead. Merely lurking in someone!

TheDarkMercenary


Norofel
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:54 pm


Whew, I'm relieved someone read it. Typing that out was insane, I kept redoing it afraid I had missed something. sweatdrop

There may have been a partial Erik. He may not have been the trap door lover with a skilled lasso hand, he may not have been the very first ventriloquist, but perhaps there was a secretive singer that lived in the depths of the opera. This story was the first to move me like it did, and even if there was never a fragment of the Erik, he's still here with me. xP
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:59 pm


Norofel
Whew, I'm relieved someone read it. Typing that out was insane, I kept redoing it afraid I had missed something. sweatdrop

There may have been a partial Erik. He may not have been the trap door lover with a skilled lasso hand, he may not have been the very first ventriloquist, but perhaps there was a secretive singer that lived in the depths of the opera. This story was the first to move me like it did, and even if there was never a fragment of the Erik, he's still here with me. xP
Agreed! He walks in all of us. And, I will admit that this is the only story that ever drew a tear to my eye.......not that I'm a cry-baby...it's just I'm in the same boat as the Phantom is.....I'm not a cry-baby! The story has so many real aspects about it. The fact that someone who is disfigured wants what people see as beautiful. The sheer want and need to posess an item of pure gorgeousity, even if it's a person.

TheDarkMercenary


Haleybob

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:11 pm


im not ashamed to say i cried for a long time after reading the book. i mean, he DIED!!! crying ah, that was really really sad, but i still like to read the book often...
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:18 pm


haleybob
im not ashamed to say i cried for a long time after reading the book. i mean, he DIED!!! crying ah, that was really really sad, but i still like to read the book often...
Something that really cheered me up was thinking that Erik hadn't died. Think about it! If Christine knew he was still alive, she would be scared, so imagine that Erik just vanishes. He just leaves and lets Christine live in peace. I know it's not what the book implies, but it'll stop the tears!

TheDarkMercenary


Norofel
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:28 am


Well you can never truly know. Perhaps he had left, and the managers decided to post that in the newspaper so people would assume the little mishaps were going to end? Perhaps he slept in his coffin for a few years only to come out and decide that he was alright after all- and then later began to start another masterpiece?

There are many options- since it said that it was in the paper and the Persian did not see Erik's corpse himself.. And Erik was a living corpse so you could never know how people mistook him.. Imagine him trying to get some rest in a secret trap door one day- and someone comes in, surprised to see this skin-and-bones man, not making a sound and lying on the floor!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:05 am


I know that this is technically off-topic, but I think it's important! Most people are familar with the 2004 and film, but not the Phantoms the preceded it. So here are a few pictures to show everyone that Norofel knows her stuff and to give everyone a wider history of the Phantom.
The original phantom from the silent, black-and-white film:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/565656/Chaney20Sr.jpg
Michael Crawford getting into make-up for the 1987 stage performance:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/565656/08pso1050135.jpg
Michael as the Phantom:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/565656/phantom9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/565656/Phantom1.jpg
And as everyone knows, Gerard Butler (2004):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/565656/Phantom4.jpg
Hope that helps a little! Also, my computer has been flaking out recently, so if they don't load, PM me and I'll send the links again.

TheDarkMercenary


Elphie~Witch of the West

PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:26 pm


I think that there was and 'Erik' that he modeled the character after, and I'm very sure that there were vaults under the Opera house
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:29 am


Elphie~Witch of the West
I think that there was and 'Erik' that he modeled the character after, and I'm very sure that there were vaults under the Opera house
We should organise a field trip, take some shovels with us and try to find the vaults! I'd put money towards it! Anyone else interested? When I say shovels, I mean to find the vaults, not to try and find Erik's corpse!

TheDarkMercenary


Elphie~Witch of the West

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:08 pm


TheDarkMercenary
Elphie~Witch of the West
I think that there was and 'Erik' that he modeled the character after, and I'm very sure that there were vaults under the Opera house
We should organise a field trip, take some shovels with us and try to find the vaults! I'd put money towards it! Anyone else interested? When I say shovels, I mean to find the vaults, not to try and find Erik's corpse!

Good idea!!! I'll use my ariline miles to organize a trip to France!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:57 am


Elphie~Witch of the West
TheDarkMercenary
Elphie~Witch of the West
I think that there was and 'Erik' that he modeled the character after, and I'm very sure that there were vaults under the Opera house
We should organise a field trip, take some shovels with us and try to find the vaults! I'd put money towards it! Anyone else interested? When I say shovels, I mean to find the vaults, not to try and find Erik's corpse!

Good idea!!! I'll use my ariline miles to organize a trip to France!
Erm, I thought that everyone would be calling me crazy, but you think it's a good idea, then hey ho, lets go! Also, I know it's a bit off topic, but I'm really angry with the internet at the moment as I've used every search engine and I still can't find where Gaston Leroux was buried! All I want to do is go and see the grave and maybe lay a flower on it, but NO!

TheDarkMercenary


- R a b i d KAT -

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:15 am


*is already digging to France with a spoon* ninja
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:05 am


Call me when you get there, Snow! We're going to invade there and molest any bookstore we see that has Le Fantôme de l'opéra! xD

Norofel
Vice Captain


TheDarkMercenary

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:30 am


Norofel
Call me when you get there, Snow! We're going to invade there and molest any bookstore we see that has Le Fantôme de l'opéra! xD
Or you could just order it!!! I've just placed an order for Kay's "Phantom" but the only copy available is in America. So I've paid £25 to have it imported for me.
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Past the Point of No Return: A Phantom of the Opera Guild

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